Man this PDK is humbling...advise for getting the most satisfaction out of it?
01-21-2018, 02:52 PM
#77
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In a van down by the Ottawa River ...
Posts: 4,132
Received 460 Likes
on
257 Posts
Are money shifts troubling? I've driven a manual my entire life and I've only downshifted too low like once or twice that I can think of. Didn't hurt anything because I caught myself before clutch was fully out and saved it. In a GT3, is it something to be more concerned about?
01-21-2018, 02:59 PM
#78
Burning Brakes
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...-gt3rs-is.html
This guy looks bored out of his mind with the ol' "slush box"
This guy looks bored out of his mind with the ol' "slush box"
01-21-2018, 03:33 PM
#79
01-21-2018, 04:25 PM
#80
This post highlights an interesting reality, namely, that we need to feel useful in order to feel happy. This is true in life as it is in Porsche.
The PDK allows us to pretend to shift, but in the back of our heads is the knowledge that it really doesn't need us to do so. really, PDK is so good that it laughs at your efforts To second guess it. In fact, rumor has that the AI in the transmission had to be artificially limited by the factory so that when we flick the shift paddles it doesn't tell us to actually "**** off" in german and ignore our vain efforts like an AMG transmission does. (If you've driven an AMG you know what I mean)
Once you realize you can leave the car in automatic and It will always be better than you, then flicking your finger on a plastic paddle to activate a solenoid, Loses any pretense of significance or authenticity.
Maybe driving a manual with the auto blipping function and the flat shifting function is just as fake of an experience. Think about it, you can't forget that you intentionally selected an inferior device outdated device, just to pretend that you could still form an integral part of the machine...
But at least, at least... in that moment with the manual you are actually forced to press the clutch, and move a real mechanical lever with your hand. At least with a manual, you can still pretend you're relevant.
In the end, we are pretending anyway right? Pretending that we are good drivers, or that we need to get somewhere fast with the right tool for the job, or that passing someone on track meant anything at all.
In the end, the best authenticity we can hope for is to authentically enjoy ourselves.
The PDK allows us to pretend to shift, but in the back of our heads is the knowledge that it really doesn't need us to do so. really, PDK is so good that it laughs at your efforts To second guess it. In fact, rumor has that the AI in the transmission had to be artificially limited by the factory so that when we flick the shift paddles it doesn't tell us to actually "**** off" in german and ignore our vain efforts like an AMG transmission does. (If you've driven an AMG you know what I mean)
Once you realize you can leave the car in automatic and It will always be better than you, then flicking your finger on a plastic paddle to activate a solenoid, Loses any pretense of significance or authenticity.
Maybe driving a manual with the auto blipping function and the flat shifting function is just as fake of an experience. Think about it, you can't forget that you intentionally selected an inferior device outdated device, just to pretend that you could still form an integral part of the machine...
But at least, at least... in that moment with the manual you are actually forced to press the clutch, and move a real mechanical lever with your hand. At least with a manual, you can still pretend you're relevant.
In the end, we are pretending anyway right? Pretending that we are good drivers, or that we need to get somewhere fast with the right tool for the job, or that passing someone on track meant anything at all.
In the end, the best authenticity we can hope for is to authentically enjoy ourselves.
01-21-2018, 04:42 PM
#81
Nordschleife Master
"destaccado
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...but-i-did.html"Another non sequitor. And??????Nice one off project. PAG chose not to use it for the RS for the obvious reason. Ultimate GT3 gets utlimate performace box.
01-21-2018, 05:56 PM
#82
Three Wheelin'
There are three aspects of PDK to consider vs. manual:
1) it's a substantial mechanical improvement. It's much faster, and often smoother on the track when downshifting. It's just "better" in terms of physics. The only counter argument to this point is "feel."
2) it removes the requirement that you "think" about gearing/shifting when in PDK-sport/auto. It does everything for you, and it does it so well it's scary...
3) it removes the human contribution to physical control of the gearing as an aspect of interacting with the car when on track or driving aggressively.
You can chose to give up #2 and #3 to the computer, but you don't have to. Just like you can choose to have the GT4 rev match (it's better/more consistent than Randy Pobst, much less rennlisters), but you don't have to.
I've played around with the auto mode on the track quite a bit, and, ironically, I've found that I'm not any faster. Given PDK hits perfect 9,000RPM shifts EVERY time, it took me a while to figure out why, but I finally figured it out. When the car is in auto mode, you can completely remove gearing from your field of consciousness. As a result, I found that I'd lose track of which gear I'm in when in auto mode. I'd never realized that I subconsciously kept track of the gears when shifting myself. When I didn't know what gear I was in, I was a hair more hesitant to put the throttle down as quickly because I didn't have a subconscious "feel" for how much torque I could use at a particular speed in a particular turn. Of course, this was a "human" problem, but manual mode fixed it (even though I have to use more brainpower to count again).
In any case, you can "control" the thought and physical interaction of gearing with the car with PDK. You just have to choose to move the lever to the left...
1) it's a substantial mechanical improvement. It's much faster, and often smoother on the track when downshifting. It's just "better" in terms of physics. The only counter argument to this point is "feel."
2) it removes the requirement that you "think" about gearing/shifting when in PDK-sport/auto. It does everything for you, and it does it so well it's scary...
3) it removes the human contribution to physical control of the gearing as an aspect of interacting with the car when on track or driving aggressively.
You can chose to give up #2 and #3 to the computer, but you don't have to. Just like you can choose to have the GT4 rev match (it's better/more consistent than Randy Pobst, much less rennlisters), but you don't have to.
I've played around with the auto mode on the track quite a bit, and, ironically, I've found that I'm not any faster. Given PDK hits perfect 9,000RPM shifts EVERY time, it took me a while to figure out why, but I finally figured it out. When the car is in auto mode, you can completely remove gearing from your field of consciousness. As a result, I found that I'd lose track of which gear I'm in when in auto mode. I'd never realized that I subconsciously kept track of the gears when shifting myself. When I didn't know what gear I was in, I was a hair more hesitant to put the throttle down as quickly because I didn't have a subconscious "feel" for how much torque I could use at a particular speed in a particular turn. Of course, this was a "human" problem, but manual mode fixed it (even though I have to use more brainpower to count again).
In any case, you can "control" the thought and physical interaction of gearing with the car with PDK. You just have to choose to move the lever to the left...
01-21-2018, 08:51 PM
#83
Drifting
I'm no race car driver, but I've never had to "think" about shifting with a manual transmission. It's muscle memory. Once you get a feel for the car, shouldn't it just be natural? I drove the same 5-speed car for almost 10 years and I can't remember ever having to consciously think about shifting or be aware of what gear I was in. It's just something I felt, subconsciously. Like I could put my had on the shifter and I knew what gear it was in. I could tell by the sound of the engine and by the vibrations in the gas pedal or clutch. AndI didn't have to actively think about those things. I never had to go, "ok I'm in 3rd and I need to shift to 4th right here and oh ok back to 3rd now, aaaaand now I'm in 2nd again." Maybe I don't have a lot of track experience but at least on the street it was never a thing. Most races I've done on a track were 2nd/3rd gear though. Just seems weird that people talk about having to think about driving a manual.
01-21-2018, 09:09 PM
#84
Three Wheelin'
I'm no race car driver, but I've never had to "think" about shifting with a manual transmission. It's muscle memory. Once you get a feel for the car, shouldn't it just be natural? I drove the same 5-speed car for almost 10 years and I can't remember ever having to consciously think about shifting or be aware of what gear I was in. It's just something I felt, subconsciously. Like I could put my had on the shifter and I knew what gear it was in. I could tell by the sound of the engine and by the vibrations in the gas pedal or clutch. AndI didn't have to actively think about those things. I never had to go, "ok I'm in 3rd and I need to shift to 4th right here and oh ok back to 3rd now, aaaaand now I'm in 2nd again." Maybe I don't have a lot of track experience but at least on the street it was never a thing. Most races I've done on a track were 2nd/3rd gear though. Just seems weird that people talk about having to think about driving a manual.
01-21-2018, 11:49 PM
#85
Race Director
Originally Posted by BrntRubber
What a great post!
