Man this PDK is humbling...advise for getting the most satisfaction out of it?
01-18-2018, 08:46 PM
#31
3rd Gear
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Completely agree with this,just couldn't get my head around the paddles and the shift lever change was the only fun I could have with a dual clutch.
Sold my 2017 M3 comp because of a lack of engagement and also to pay for my manual Gt3 in March
Sold my 2017 M3 comp because of a lack of engagement and also to pay for my manual Gt3 in March
01-18-2018, 08:57 PM
#32
Burning Brakes
Let's not turn this into 6speed vs PDK but I do agree a six speed could be more fun and engaging. However, PDK is also great and could def be made exciting as well. I have both PDK and another six speed beast and enjoy driving them both. The OP is asking for tips on how to optimize PDK though.
01-18-2018, 09:12 PM
#33
This is how I like to use my PDK especially at the track to make it more engaging. The PDK is a fantastic transmission but cannot look ahead to upcoming changes. At the Ridge Motorsports Park I know I need to down shift one gear going into turn 1 and between turn 1 & 2 another down shift again to make the climb up the hill to three. With knowledge of the course you can smoothly make you shifts manually and add some fun into the process. When I am out driving for fun on the road I always run in manual, this is how I keep the RPMs up so I don't lug the engine. These cars like high RPMS so rev em up. Yes you will use a little more gas but your fun meter will be pegged. See you at the track
01-18-2018, 09:25 PM
#34
This post highlights an interesting reality, namely, that we need to feel useful in order to feel happy. This is true in life as it is in Porsche.
The PDK allows us to pretend to shift, but in the back of our heads is the knowledge that it really doesn't need us to do so. really, PDK is so good that it laughs at your efforts To second guess it. In fact, rumor has that the AI in the transmission had to be artificially limited by the factory so that when we flick the shift paddles it doesn't tell us to actually "**** off" in german and ignore our vain efforts like an AMG transmission does. (If you've driven an AMG you know what I mean)
Once you realize you can leave the car in automatic and It will always be better than you, then flicking your finger on a plastic paddle to activate a solenoid, Loses any pretense of significance or authenticity.
Maybe driving a manual with the auto blipping function and the flat shifting function is just as fake of an experience. Think about it, you can't forget that you intentionally selected an inferior device outdated device, just to pretend that you could still form an integral part of the machine...
But at least, at least... in that moment with the manual you are actually forced to press the clutch, and move a real mechanical lever with your hand. At least with a manual, you can still pretend you're relevant.
In the end, we are pretending anyway right? Pretending that we are good drivers, or that we need to get somewhere fast with the right tool for the job, or that passing someone on track meant anything at all.
In the end, the best authenticity we can hope for is to authentically enjoy ourselves.
The PDK allows us to pretend to shift, but in the back of our heads is the knowledge that it really doesn't need us to do so. really, PDK is so good that it laughs at your efforts To second guess it. In fact, rumor has that the AI in the transmission had to be artificially limited by the factory so that when we flick the shift paddles it doesn't tell us to actually "**** off" in german and ignore our vain efforts like an AMG transmission does. (If you've driven an AMG you know what I mean)
Once you realize you can leave the car in automatic and It will always be better than you, then flicking your finger on a plastic paddle to activate a solenoid, Loses any pretense of significance or authenticity.
Maybe driving a manual with the auto blipping function and the flat shifting function is just as fake of an experience. Think about it, you can't forget that you intentionally selected an inferior device outdated device, just to pretend that you could still form an integral part of the machine...
But at least, at least... in that moment with the manual you are actually forced to press the clutch, and move a real mechanical lever with your hand. At least with a manual, you can still pretend you're relevant.
In the end, we are pretending anyway right? Pretending that we are good drivers, or that we need to get somewhere fast with the right tool for the job, or that passing someone on track meant anything at all.
In the end, the best authenticity we can hope for is to authentically enjoy ourselves.
01-18-2018, 09:31 PM
#35
Race Director
That's what Porsche wanted its customers to believe when the first gen car was introduced. They have just contradicted themselves with the introduction of the gen 2 car. The manual works brilliantly in a 9000 rpms fast revving engine. But not to worry,Porsche has a vast history of contradicting themselves...
so I won't argue the point other than to say that Porsche is not contradicting themselves. A cabriolet isn't the best performing iteration of the 911, but some people just like convertibles so Porsche builds 911 cabs . The manual isn't the best performing iteration of the GT3 but some people prefer manuals so Porsche now offers one. That's not contradictory, it's good marketing.I understand completely that the performance difference may be far outweighed by interaction with clutch and shifter for you and others, but the ultimate mission of the GT cars is higher performance and no matter how subjectively brilliant the MT is, that objective performance can only be optimized with PDK.
To the OP, I agree with others that the best way to enjoy PDK is to use manual mode on the street, whether you use paddles or the shifter. I upshift and downshift with the paddles. I like the paddles because for me the whole point of using the paddles is that you can keep both hands on the wheel. Regular auto mode on the street upshifts too quickly, IMHO, and PDK auto sport is too aggressive and hangs onto gears too long in most situations. I use manual mode 100% of the time on the street, even in traffic, and I shift with PDK just like I used to shift with a MT. On track PDK in auto sport mode is superior most of the time and that's what I most often use for autocross.
Last edited by Mike in CA; 01-18-2018 at 09:48 PM.
01-18-2018, 09:49 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2012
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I have three manual Porsches and the PDK GT3. Way over 20K miles on the GT3, and the paddles are FUN!
01-18-2018, 09:49 PM
#37
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by Mike in CA
Nick, you and I have been over this ground before so I won't argue the point other than to say that Porsche is not contradicting themselves. A cabriolet isn't the best performing iteration of the 911, but some people just like convertibles so Porsche builds 911 cabs . The manual isn't the best performing iteration of the GT3 but some people prefer manuals so Porsche now offers one. That's not contradictory, it's good marketing.
I understand completely that the performance difference may be far outweighed by interaction with clutch and shifter for you and others, but the ultimate mission of the GT cars is higher performance and no matter how subjectively brilliant the MT is, that objective performance can only be optimized with PDK.
To the OP, I agree with others that the best way to enjoy PDK is to use manual mode on the street, whether you use paddles or the shifter. I upshift and downshift with the paddles. I like the paddles because the whole point of the paddle exercise is that you can keep both hands on the wheel. Regular auto mode on the street upshifts too quickly, IMHO, and PDK sport is too aggressive and hangs onto gears too long in most situations. I use manual mode 100% of the time on the street, even in traffic, and I shift with PDK just like I used to shift with a MT. On track PDK in auto sport mode is superior most of the time and that's what I most often use for autocross.
so I won't argue the point other than to say that Porsche is not contradicting themselves. A cabriolet isn't the best performing iteration of the 911, but some people just like convertibles so Porsche builds 911 cabs . The manual isn't the best performing iteration of the GT3 but some people prefer manuals so Porsche now offers one. That's not contradictory, it's good marketing.I understand completely that the performance difference may be far outweighed by interaction with clutch and shifter for you and others, but the ultimate mission of the GT cars is higher performance and no matter how subjectively brilliant the MT is, that objective performance can only be optimized with PDK.
To the OP, I agree with others that the best way to enjoy PDK is to use manual mode on the street, whether you use paddles or the shifter. I upshift and downshift with the paddles. I like the paddles because the whole point of the paddle exercise is that you can keep both hands on the wheel. Regular auto mode on the street upshifts too quickly, IMHO, and PDK sport is too aggressive and hangs onto gears too long in most situations. I use manual mode 100% of the time on the street, even in traffic, and I shift with PDK just like I used to shift with a MT. On track PDK in auto sport mode is superior most of the time and that's what I most often use for autocross.
01-18-2018, 11:14 PM
#38
01-18-2018, 11:48 PM
#39
I love my PDK GT3.2 and I'm a "save the manuals" enthusiast! I use PDK-S most of the time and I enjoy using the paddles... but when there's congestion or slower moving traffic, that's when I flip it back to auto mode and even toggle out of PDK-S. I opted for the PDK because my other (and all my previous) performance cars are all manuals and I am pretty content with the PDK version. I can never stop enjoying the super quick up/downshifts and the wonderful noise the car makes even when decelerating & downshifting. Who knew it was this fun!
Have I thought about the manual version? Yes and even recently driven a friend's too... but personally for me I have 3 other fun toys to manually row gears in so I'm good to go. So I say just learn/enjoy the PDK if you have one and it'll be a blast, literally. And definitely cherish & have fun in that manual version if that's what you have. Pick your poison/weapon.... both are a win-win scenario. But the PDK-S will always shift faster/quicker no matter what...
Have I thought about the manual version? Yes and even recently driven a friend's too... but personally for me I have 3 other fun toys to manually row gears in so I'm good to go. So I say just learn/enjoy the PDK if you have one and it'll be a blast, literally. And definitely cherish & have fun in that manual version if that's what you have. Pick your poison/weapon.... both are a win-win scenario. But the PDK-S will always shift faster/quicker no matter what...
01-18-2018, 11:49 PM
#40
Race Director
If you use PDK in normal auto mode (not PDK sport) it will tend to upshift early and you can find yourself cruising along at 2K RPM. By using manual mode you can control when upshifts occur. I like to keep RPM, at a minimum, above 3500.
01-19-2018, 12:40 AM
#42
I think another thing to be contemplated here is that the transmission is just one part of a car's experience. PDK vs. MT is not the end-all that defines the GT3, it is one aspect of driving a GT3. The noise, the engine, rear bias, suspension setup, chassis, and other characteristics of the car make it what it is. The sum is greater than the parts, same with any other 911.
Same thing for bucket seats vs sofas, wing vs no wing.... I don't think that there is a correct choice and that the other condemns you to an inferior GT3 lol
to the OP, coming from an older 911 you might not get the same experience behind the wheel if that is what you are searching for.... the older 911s have a charm that the new ones don't (IMO) and I don't think it's necessarily the gearbox that is the culprit. Every time I drive the 993, there is a huge grin on my face as its a more emotional experience (and this is even a TIP 993). The sound of the engine, creaks and noises, size, revving the engine out and being only at 40 mph (compared with 80 in the 991), and just something intangible. Hop in my 991 and it feels like a surgical instrument compared to it....
For PDK I manually shift sometimes as I agree with others that auto puts you in 6th at 30mph and sport mode hangs on to lower gears for too long. Then when I turn right and get smacked with traffic, flip it in auto and sip my coffee or zone out and listen to some good music
Same thing for bucket seats vs sofas, wing vs no wing.... I don't think that there is a correct choice and that the other condemns you to an inferior GT3 lol
to the OP, coming from an older 911 you might not get the same experience behind the wheel if that is what you are searching for.... the older 911s have a charm that the new ones don't (IMO) and I don't think it's necessarily the gearbox that is the culprit. Every time I drive the 993, there is a huge grin on my face as its a more emotional experience (and this is even a TIP 993). The sound of the engine, creaks and noises, size, revving the engine out and being only at 40 mph (compared with 80 in the 991), and just something intangible. Hop in my 991 and it feels like a surgical instrument compared to it....
For PDK I manually shift sometimes as I agree with others that auto puts you in 6th at 30mph and sport mode hangs on to lower gears for too long. Then when I turn right and get smacked with traffic, flip it in auto and sip my coffee or zone out and listen to some good music
01-19-2018, 07:00 AM
#43
I am quite the opposite. To me going manual is taking few steps back. I like the latest and newest. PDK is as engaging as the manual for majority of folks here. Provided you push the car hard (track). Street driving is boring regardless unless you want to break the law all the time.
01-19-2018, 08:45 AM
#44
Three Wheelin'
To answer the OP: manual mode 100% for both up and down. Then the only thing you're really missing is the clutch.
The 2 auto modes are useless for street driving anyway. One shifts too early and one too late.
An exception to this rule is on track you may want to use auto sport mode to get upshifts at exactly 9krpms and then override at each corner by using the paddles. But that is really when you're chasing the very last few tenths. When you're learning the track I'd use manual so you're in control of the routine for each corner. 'Turn 1 is second gear, braking point here, entry here etc. '
Note that in manual mode PDK Sport button doesn't do anything.
The 2 auto modes are useless for street driving anyway. One shifts too early and one too late.
An exception to this rule is on track you may want to use auto sport mode to get upshifts at exactly 9krpms and then override at each corner by using the paddles. But that is really when you're chasing the very last few tenths. When you're learning the track I'd use manual so you're in control of the routine for each corner. 'Turn 1 is second gear, braking point here, entry here etc. '
Note that in manual mode PDK Sport button doesn't do anything.
01-19-2018, 09:06 AM
#45
What a great series of comments and thoughts. No one is wrong and everyone right. I choose PDK for multiple reasons not least of which I am a baby boomer that had ALL MT cars for 40 years primarily because the automatics were awful including the Tiptronic but now that has changed in a huge way. All have fun.