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"Clubsport" build underway

 
Old 05-17-2018, 11:13 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by jcastle View Post
MVEZ,

Any updates after getting the car out on track? How does your club sport .1GT3 compare your prior cayman and GT3RS track cars?
I'm at Mid-Ohio as we speak and was planning on popping it's cherry this weekend, but I decided to make a couple changes before it hits the track. Nothing big, just little details that couldn't be addressed before I left this week.

I'll be taking it up to Putnam in a couple weeks for a local KYPCA event and will finally get to post some thoughts and feedback. Can't wait.

I'll say this, I just cranked the shocks down to the "track" settings that Ohlins suggests to start with, and it is still totally streetable. It is fawking insane how this much spring rate can be controlled so well on the street. I expect on track it should be dynamite. Let's face it, the car bone stock is a monster, I'm just a nut who can't leave well enough alone. More to come......
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Old 05-18-2018, 04:10 AM
  #62  
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Are the Tarret camber plates the same geometry as the GT4 club sport plates?
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:42 AM
  #63  
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Old 06-11-2018, 01:15 AM
  #64  
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OK gents, finally took it up to Putnam this weekend. This car and motor is BEAST. Seriously. Out of the box, I could turn 1:09's and 1:10's in light traffic, in 90+ degree heat on Pirellis DH take-offs, and 1:12-13's on Cup2's. That's pretty bonkers for a car that I drove to the track. In better conditions, with open track, it should certainly do 1:08's. And this is the 6spd manual. Based on what I see here, the car will easily run sub 1:30's at Mid-Ohio on pro-course, just how low in the 20's is yet to be seen. I'll drag it up there later this year.

I upped the front camber to -3.5, and had swaybars both in middle setting. All nannies OFF. I ran tires on the higher end of pressure range and came away with excellent tire wear. 32-34F, 35-38R hot for Cup 2's, and 31-33F, 33-35R for Pirellis. Cup2's felt decent, but lots of tread squirm due to being new. Still prefer the Trofeo-R though, and will replace them on my 20" wheels when they are used up.

Initial setup yielded typical 911 mid-corner to exit understeer, with good neutral to loose initial turn-in. I didn't make any chassis changes at track, except tire pressures, simply because I wanted to get enough seat time and get comfy with the RWS to make sure I wasn't causing any handling problems from being rusty in a 911, before making any changes. RWS is new to me, it has this weird feel right at turn-in when you come off the brakes and turn the wheel, where the car feels like it's loose, but it's just rotating via RWS. It caught me out a couple times in slow corners, and I also wasn't thrilled about how the car's attitude changes when the car begins to slide. Feels inconsistent to me, but more seat time should help. Anyway, on to the good stuff.

Ohlins TTX - amazing performance. I left them in the initial "track" settings suggested from Ohlins, and they felt great. While the front to rear balance was good, I could have probably stiffened them all up a bit more for the Pirellis, but again, just wanted seat time before making bigger changes. They handle bumps so well, and they feel so compliant but controlled. Spring rates feel spot-on. I'll start working on dialing in the shocks further for more chassis balance at the next event. I'd like to free up the car a bit more on exit.

LOVE the Schroth 4pt belts.

With all nannies off, the car still laid down power very well, and was pretty solid in the brake zones, so the LSD is doing it's job for now, but time will tell.
All in all, the car is amazing, and the mods I added seem to have simply upped the performance envelope, with virtually zero downside to daily driveability. It feels like a tank, it feels like a race car, and could do crazy fast lap times all day long. What a machine.


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Old 06-11-2018, 08:27 AM
  #65  
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Sub 1:30 in a "street car" is a serious time at Mid-Ohio. Great job with the build, enjoy!
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Old 06-11-2018, 11:12 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Mech33 View Post
Are the Tarret camber plates the same geometry as the GT4 club sport plates?
Yes, they are very similar. They dial back the caster on the GT3 to about 9.4, which is just about perfect IMO.
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Old 06-11-2018, 03:19 PM
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Our plates have slightly less caster then the Club Sport plates, but we added about -1.2 deg. of camber to them. Similar to the 991 RSR plates.

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Old 06-11-2018, 04:02 PM
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Wow, very cool to see a car with so much potential being developed in a such a way. A lot of people go too far and many others don't want anything else but stock, but you've seemed to find a sweet spot. Even better that it seems you have the driving experience to work out all the kinks and really appreciate the setup! And a 6mt! This is my dream "drive to the track and have fun" car.

Last edited by Yargk; 06-11-2018 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 06-11-2018, 04:13 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Tarett Engineering View Post
Our plates have slightly less caster then the Club Sport plates, but we added about -1.2 deg. of camber to them. Similar to the 991 RSR plates.

Ira
Yep. I can get about -3.6 without any additional shims, and car handles great with caster around 9.4-ish degrees. Thanks for getting those longer studs out to me as well.

These are the ticket!
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Old 06-11-2018, 06:53 PM
  #70  
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Glad your initial setup proved so quick and satisfying!
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Old 06-12-2018, 04:24 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Mvez View Post
Couple quick updates:

2. Dundon motorsports has confirmed their rear gurney/wicker fits the .2, as it's the same wing element. Ordered one to increase downforce without adding more wing angle/attack. Helps to allow setup to be more free/neutral in the slow/mid speed corners, and stable in high speed stuff.

Just waiting on the Tarett camber plates and the TPC valved by-pass, and we can get this build party started....
I'm curious what you think about gurney flap + high angle of attack. It seems like it might work well because
1. Cup cars and race cars tend to have much more rear biased downforce, I'm guessing this allows for getting on the throttle earlier in high speed corners. (in other words, there's still a benefit without "perfect" aero balance)
2. As I understand it, the gurney flap allows for better lift to drag ratios at high angles of attacks, so from a lift to drag standpoint, you should be pretty good with the high angle + flap combo.
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Old 06-12-2018, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Yargk View Post
I'm curious what you think about gurney flap + high angle of attack. It seems like it might work well because
1. Cup cars and race cars tend to have much more rear biased downforce, I'm guessing this allows for getting on the throttle earlier in high speed corners. (in other words, there's still a benefit without "perfect" aero balance)
2. As I understand it, the gurney flap allows for better lift to drag ratios at high angles of attacks, so from a lift to drag standpoint, you should be pretty good with the high angle + flap combo.
I like it. It's not like it makes the car understeer wildly at speed, it just a quick and simple way to add a bit more rear downforce through the high speed stuff, so I can be more aggressive on alignment to free up the car for slow to medium corners.

Compare to most on Rennlist, I seem to be running a pretty aggressive alignment. Partly because the stiffer springs need more camber, but my F to R split is more than what others seem to run. Based on the tire wear, I'm not sure there is any advantage to reducing the camber split. I didn't find the car to be "loose" at all, despite bigger front camber, less caster (shorter wheelbase) and stock rear toe spec.

-3.5F, 0 toe, 9.3 caster
-2.7R, .16 deg toe per side
Decent rake in the car, bars on middle setting

The car was extremely stable in high speed corners. I still have more setup work to do, as I want to make side to side transitions a bit more crisp, and stiffen the rear a bit more via shocks or bars, or both. I was getting a bit too much mid-to-exit understeer which is usually cured with more rear compression. I tend to prefer very quick weight transfer, so a stiffer platform is my preference.

I think the initial "track" settings for the Ohlins were based on the Cup2 tires. I think for stickier tires, the platform will benefit from stiffening both ends up a bit more and then adjusting for balance preference. More to come!

Last edited by Mvez; 06-12-2018 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 06-13-2018, 04:09 PM
  #73  
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Cool, looking forward to future updates (esp re RWS feel at the limit!).
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Old 06-13-2018, 06:56 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Yargk View Post
Cool, looking forward to future updates (esp re RWS feel at the limit!).
I've spent a lot of time re-researching the RWS and PTV functions this car has, both of which can't be disabled that I know of. In the 2 slowest corners where I felt a lot of inconsistency, which were still 50mph or higher, I think was actually from a combination of the RWS and PTV. RWS from 50mph turns with the front tires, which adds wheelbase and stability, i.e. some understeer, or at best neutrality, however, I think what I was feeling was the tug at the inside tire from PTV. PTV, under hard braking and initial turn-in, gives a tug of brake to the inside tire to help rotate that car, and I think that is what I was actually feeling and what I didn't like. I get why they do it, it let's them get away with less locking of the diff on coast and turn-in, so good for street driving, etc., but then on track the PTV helps it get into the corner. From 75mph the PTV supposedly phases out, and is completely off at 100mph, which makes sense, because it would make the car unstable at speed. I can say, the car felt fine for faster corners at turn-in....it was only in the slow corners with hard braking (and some trailbraking), where the car does a weird pitch into the corner.

Am I the only person who feels this?

Regardless, it feels a bit too contrived to me, and while I'm sure it works and the system together makes us all faster, I just don't like that I can't control it. It made the car feel overly loose for a second, which then I made worse by slightly lifting, because I had no idea what was going on. Kinda weirds you out the first time you feel it. After my first 2 sessions, I got more used to it, and was able to get more comfortable. Even then though, once the car begins to slide, you can still feel the toe moving (atleast back to center), which still feels weird. I know I'm nitpicking, because the car if freakin amazing, but I skipped the .1, so the computer gizmos are still all new to me.

Between the RWS, PTV, and the mechanical LSD, just a lot going on back there, especially when you turn off all the nannies, you can really feel it change the behavior of the car. I'm just not used to it totally yet.

I actually asked my service advisors at Porsche if there was a way to "lock" the RWS in the default position. I thought I read that in Europe they had some function like that for snow or bad road conditions. Who knows, can't hurt to ask.
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:31 PM
  #75  
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That's interesting. I also wonder if some of the feeling is unique to the manual GT3 because it doesn't have the same diff as the PDK version. Perhaps Orthojoe can chime in on his experiences (because he has a manual GT3).

(The GT4 also has PTV (no RWS of course) and perhaps I've gotten used to it because the car seems pretty predictable on corner entry. When it was stock I found it to be a little unsettled under hard braking, but I think that was more of an issue of too much weight transfer and dynamic toe out in the rear. With even slightly stiffer springs and more static toe-in, the car is much better on corner entry)

Last edited by Yargk; 06-14-2018 at 12:03 AM.
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