Alan C.

Impressive.

_fletch

Sorry for a newbie question, but every time i see this topic its always about the rotors. What about the calipers? Do you keep the same calipers (in my instance the red steel/iron ones) and install different pads? How does someone with buyers remorse and yellow caliper envy get the yellow caliper look?

TRAKCAR

I rebuilt a few calipers on old cars and the cost was about $900 to repaint the calipers.

I have the Surface Transform rotors on steel Red Calipers with the appropriate pads. Awesome stopping power and just as important, consistent from the first lap to the last lap and now I have clean wheels as a bonus :-)

AutoQuest Motorsports

The red steel and yellow PCCB calipers are actually the same caliper, albeit the PCCB calipers are spaced out differently to accept the larger ceramic rotor. The ST rotors can be installed on the red steel calipers with a spacer and bolt kit that we supply from ST for the steel conversions. For your reference we are also bumping the rotor diameter up to 410mm in the front and 400mm in the rear with the ST rotors. Now if you have yellow caliper envy...just have them painted yellow and you are good to go. We've done that on several cars, in fact the white GT4 we have for sale right not was originally a steel caliper car that we had painted yellow.

911-TOUR

Any plans for ST rotors for the base 991.2 Carrera / Carrera T?

sean

JRitt@essex

Have you seen our upcoming front/rear complete Essex Designed AP Racing Radi-CAL Competition Brake Kit? It's as close as one can get to what the 911 RSR factory racecar runs in IMSA.

Our kit will solve a bunch of issues with the OEM brakes, regardless of whether or not they're iron or PCCB. In terms of your specific questions:

1. You won't have to remove calipers when switching pads. It will take you far longer to raise the car and remove the wheels than it will to change pads. You also won't be constantly tightening a bolt into your aluminum spindles, and you won't have to constantly disconnect the brake hose.

2. Not only will you preserve your OEM PCCB discs, you'll preserve your OEM calipers. They won't get faded, chipped, piston problems, cracked dust boots, etc. You stick them on the shelf with the PCCB discs, and they're fresh when you go to sell the car. It won't look like it was ragged-out on the track.

3. Discs are a consumable item, regardless of their material composition. Our iron disc rings will cost a fraction of what any carbon material will cost, so your long-term disc costs will remain low. Our iron discs are going to last a long time anyway, so you're not going to be changing them often. It's not uncommon for those who run 8 track days per year to get a couple seasons out of the first set.

4. The AP Racing calipers are considerably lighter than stock, so you'll have some of the benefits of PCCB's. Our kit should shave about 24 lbs. from the car vs. the OEM iron system, so you're getting a nice chunk of the weight savings that you got from the OEM PCCB's.

5. Huge array of pad choice. The AP Racing calipers we're using have pad shapes produced by just about every major manufacturer. You'll have more choices than you do with the OEM pad shapes, and you can adjust feel to your taste.

6. Fits in smaller wheels- Our setup uses discs that are smaller than OEM PCCB's, and will fit inside 19" wheels, opening up lighter weight wheel/tire options.

7. Residual value (this may be the most compelling one of all)- Our complete front/rear system with calipers, pads, discs, and all mounting hardware will be $11,000. Our systems typically retain about 60-70% of their original MSRP when sold on the used market. That means you buy them, and beat on them for a few years until it's time to buy your next car. At that time, you pull them off the car and collect $7,000...and you still have your OEM PCCB discs and calipers minty fresh on the shelf. You get to enjoy all of the kit's benefits during ownership, and you collect a nice payment when you sell your car, rather than buying OEM parts to put on the car only to hand it over to the next owner (or selling the car at a diminished value because the brakes are thrashed).

8. Lower pad and disc wear rates and general heat-related wear and tear- Our systems run much cooler than the OEM equipment. That means pads last longer, discs last longer, dust boots, piston seals, and pistons last longer. Brake fluid runs cooler and doesn't need to be bled as often. Everything around the brakes stays cooler (ball joints, etc.).

Our kit offers a huge list of benefits in terms of both performance and economics. The residual value of the calipers really pushes it over the top though. The AP racing calipers take an incredible beating on the track and remain in great shape. As such, our kits really hold their value well, and we've seen them passed along through several owners before they ever need to be serviced. That is not true of the factory units. Once you beat them up, you're going to be paying to either rebuild or replace them either during ownership, or when it's time to sell the car. You'll also spend far less time fiddling with your brakes. Swapping pads is a total breeze, the discs are going to last a very long time before they need to be swapped, and you won't need to bleed the brakes as frequently due to lower running temps. That means between track sessions you're hanging out drinking a water, rather than lying under the car cursing and bleeding.

We've seen this situation a whole bunch of times among C7 Z06 owners. Those who have switched say our system is one of the best modifications they've ever made to their car. You can see some of their comments in the threads below. Keep in mind these are typically 650-1000 HP, 3750 lbs. with driver, big aero, and huge tires...and our kit for the C7 Z06 uses smaller discs than what we're using on the 991 GT3!!! (372x34mm front / 365x30mm rear on the vette, vs. 394x34mm F and 380x32mm rear).

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-shipping.html

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...re-thread.html

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...e-upgrade.html

JRitt@essex

We also offer Essex Designed AP Racing 2-piece J Hook discs that replace the PCCB discs. Our two-piece discs in the OEM PCCB sizes weigh about the same as the OEM iron 380mm discs, so not a terrible weight penalty. They would be the lower cost alternative to my post above about the complete brake kit. I showed the complete system first because I believe it offers by far the most convenience and lowest long-term running costs out of any available option, which is something you seemed to be focusing heavily on. Good luck with your choice, and feel free to email, PM, or call with any questions at any time.

AutoQuest Motorsports

Nothing confirmed as of yet Sean but I should have an update on that in the near future : )

Para82

Yes a requirement if you owned a 911 with them before. 97,000 miles on PCCB here still on stock pads, epic brakes, stunning appearance and the 44 lbs off all four corners is HUGE.

PCA1983

Thanks guys, for this extremely informative thread. Let's hope the Rennlist search engine can find this in the future, because many of us will have these same questions going forward, including me, looking for my next 911 which will be a used late model.
Enough late model 911s now have PCCB that we shoppers have this additional dilemma - we can judge steel brakes by looking at the rotors and measuring thickness of the pads and rotors. But with PCCB many of us are clueless, and we are very nervous when it comes to PCCB because they are very expensive to replace. THE QUESTION is how do we judge the wear and remaining life of PCCB brakes? How can we judge the condition of PCCB?

robmypro

Para82

I believe the rotors have to be weighed to get an accurate idea of it's condition, maybe someone else can elaborate on this who has done it...

Marto

Great contributions here. Re. my original question, I have decided to "suck it and see" for a while. That is, leave the PCCB on for both road and track and assess wear rates in a couple of years. There are some great options being brought up here and who knows what else may be available by the time I need to make a decision...

Perimeter

I have a 991.2 GT3 incoming with Steel brakes and would like to buy a rotor/pad combination to gain the performance of PCCBs. I understand there are Silicon, Carbon, Ceramic and other materials that rival PCCB performance but have the extra caliper-to-barrel space of the Steels.

Any experiences?
Thank you

TRAKCAR

It all depends on how much you track. Its a but complicated to prove the condition of the PCCB when you sell the car if its been tracked more than a couple track days per year.
Its less risky to have the PCCB available to sell the car with the rotors never been tracked and be sure you wont have to cough up the $25K if you manage to kill them by tracking.

Tons of 991.2 GT3's here with the (bigger then PCCB) ST rotors, even on 19" that get tracked a lot.
There are only two manufacturers of CCB; Brembo (with different finishes) and ST.

If you don't track, steel is more then you will ever need and your PCCB will last forever.