Let’s assume ADM didn’t exist...
12-13-2017, 07:35 PM
#16
Drifting
The GT3 is not the flagship for Porsche.
It's the flagship for new comers to the Porsche brand, because they can flip and make $ or drive for free as they show boat.
Turbo/Turbo S has always been flagship.
Yes like posted, the days of talking about tracking are gone.
Porsche needs to stop offering deviated sticking, CCX, PTS for GT cars therefore the "original" target market for a GT, gets this car.
Porsche needs to be like the soup natzi episode from Seinfeld.
/end
It's the flagship for new comers to the Porsche brand, because they can flip and make $ or drive for free as they show boat.
Turbo/Turbo S has always been flagship.
Yes like posted, the days of talking about tracking are gone.
Porsche needs to stop offering deviated sticking, CCX, PTS for GT cars therefore the "original" target market for a GT, gets this car.
Porsche needs to be like the soup natzi episode from Seinfeld.
/end
12-13-2017, 07:37 PM
#18
I agree Ferrari and McLaren offer an excellent experience....but I will venture to say the demand for the Porsche GT cars vs units outweighs the demand for FCar and Mac vs units....Porsche dealers can do what they do because customers are lined up out the door to get a GT car....
12-13-2017, 08:14 PM
#19
The 911 series are comfortable cars. They fit just about every body type and perform for a reasonable value. no one needs a gt3/rs etc etc all 911's fit the bill for 99% of what they will ever be used for. Its a toy, If it wasn't, the demand would be lost
12-13-2017, 08:25 PM
#20
Race Director
Thread Starter
The GT3 is not the flagship for Porsche.
It's the flagship for new comers to the Porsche brand, because they can flip and make $ or drive for free as they show boat.
Turbo/Turbo S has always been flagship.
Yes like posted, the days of talking about tracking are gone.
Porsche needs to stop offering deviated sticking, CCX, PTS for GT cars therefore the "original" target market for a GT, gets this car.
Porsche needs to be like the soup natzi episode from Seinfeld.
/end
It's the flagship for new comers to the Porsche brand, because they can flip and make $ or drive for free as they show boat.
Turbo/Turbo S has always been flagship.
Yes like posted, the days of talking about tracking are gone.
Porsche needs to stop offering deviated sticking, CCX, PTS for GT cars therefore the "original" target market for a GT, gets this car.
Porsche needs to be like the soup natzi episode from Seinfeld.
/end
12-13-2017, 08:30 PM
#21
Race Director
Thread Starter
I guess my point was that if we magically waived a wand and did away with ADM, we would solve nothing. Porsche won’t make enough GT cars to satisfy current demand, so one way or another a lot of customers are going to pay a premium.
12-13-2017, 08:42 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
We don't know that yet. US deliveries just started, and as a result we know dealers are asking for big markups at the moment. But we don't know that they are getting them. If all allocations have been distributed and the DOW hits 50k, sure, you will have to pay to play. But production may go all the way through 2019, the 992 could be amazing, 991.1 GT3 owners may end up keeping their cars, the economy may soften, who knows...there is a good possibility supply catches up to demand before production ends.
12-13-2017, 08:51 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
I am sure we have all read a ton of threads and posts about ADM, so one more isn’t going to hurt too badly lol. As the title states, let’s assume that ADM didn’t exist in the USA (or anywhere). That might sound great on the surface, but considering that Porsche isn’t going to increase capacity to match demand, this leaves us with other problems. And why wouldn’t Porsche just increase capacity? We know why. Because when the next downturn comes, and it always comes eventually, that extra capacity is going to be a drag on Porsche profits for a long time. Porsche had to have crunched the numbers, and weighed the risks. They obviously think it isn’t worth the risk and I tend to agree at this stage of the cycle.
So, we are left with a scarcity of GT cars. Who gets them? Most likely, a dealer’s best customers. Being on a list probably does nothing, and they might even eliminate lists all together. For most guys, buying one from a dealer is going to be hard, especially for something like a .2 GT3 RS. So that leaves buying from a private party. And guess what? They are going to charge the going market price. Essentially, very similar to ADM, but without the cute sales women or free coffee. So profit shifts from dealers to customers.
Does it help or hurt us if the dealer is stripped of this extra profit? Does the extra profit show up in service, by us being charged more? Or does Porsche just end up increasing the selling price?
I am not trying to defend ADM but I guess i question if eliminating ADM actually makes a car guy’s life any better? Because a special car is going to cost all but the best customers a lot more. The only issue is...who gets the extra profit? Maybe people who live in markets without ADM can share how things actually work for them.
So, we are left with a scarcity of GT cars. Who gets them? Most likely, a dealer’s best customers. Being on a list probably does nothing, and they might even eliminate lists all together. For most guys, buying one from a dealer is going to be hard, especially for something like a .2 GT3 RS. So that leaves buying from a private party. And guess what? They are going to charge the going market price. Essentially, very similar to ADM, but without the cute sales women or free coffee. So profit shifts from dealers to customers.
Does it help or hurt us if the dealer is stripped of this extra profit? Does the extra profit show up in service, by us being charged more? Or does Porsche just end up increasing the selling price?
I am not trying to defend ADM but I guess i question if eliminating ADM actually makes a car guy’s life any better? Because a special car is going to cost all but the best customers a lot more. The only issue is...who gets the extra profit? Maybe people who live in markets without ADM can share how things actually work for them.
12-13-2017, 08:54 PM
#24
12-13-2017, 09:31 PM
#25
So long as demand exceeds supply, no ADM will simply result in (1) higher MSRPs or (2) higher used re-sale values. If somehow ADM was legislated out, and demand > supply, you'll simply create a Black Market for the cars!! You can't cheat economics...LOL
12-13-2017, 09:33 PM
#26
Race Director
Thread Starter
12-13-2017, 09:33 PM
#27
Drifting
They say whatever they have to, to butter up the consumer. It's always a sale pitch.
This weekend i was a Porsche dealer (Sonnen, sponsor on this forum) and a person asked a sales person "what's this car ?" (pointing at gt4)
salesperson " this is Porsche premier race car, that was converted to be barely street legal " i have no shame in walking over and being blunt and telling the guy how much horse**** that's but i recalled the night before, i was reminded that i have an honesty (no filter) problem.
This weekend i was a Porsche dealer (Sonnen, sponsor on this forum) and a person asked a sales person "what's this car ?" (pointing at gt4)
salesperson " this is Porsche premier race car, that was converted to be barely street legal " i have no shame in walking over and being blunt and telling the guy how much horse**** that's but i recalled the night before, i was reminded that i have an honesty (no filter) problem.
12-13-2017, 09:46 PM
#28
Ok, someone explain something to me...how does Ferrari make it's dealers sell their new cars for MSRP while Porsche can't/won't? I mean, both are under the US dealer laws.
12-13-2017, 09:56 PM
#29
WAG
12-13-2017, 10:26 PM
#30
Come to the UK. No ADMs and the secondary market is much higher priced!
Cars get allocated by dealers to best customers (subjectively), and there is a big effort going on to drop 'flippers' from future allocations.
