GT2RS learnings from recent Stuttgart trip
12-13-2017, 08:04 AM
#61
^LOL
12-13-2017, 08:14 AM
#62
I said "How will you guys homologate the race car? Will you use the old GT4? Will it be some kind of an RS variant of the old car with the 4.0 picking up where the old GT4 left off? Will Manthey handle final assembly?"
He said cryptically, "We're using a new platform, I can't say anything more about the car...".
He said cryptically, "We're using a new platform, I can't say anything more about the car...".
Also, some people here mention spy photos...could you please post links to these?
12-13-2017, 08:35 AM
#63
I probably could have communicated this point better. The conversation was as follows...
Guy from Porsche said, "We will have a base Clubsport race car and a Clubsport GT4 race car for the 2019 race season that is much more capable than the current Clubsport GT4 MR."
I said, "Does that mean there will be a new 718 GT4 street car in 2018 in order to homologate the race car?" Also, "Will it be NA or FI?
Right? Inquiring minds want to know!
He said "No plans for a new GT4 street car in 2018"
I said "How will you guys homologate the race car? Will you use the old GT4? Will it be some kind of an RS variant of the old car with the 4.0 picking up where the old GT4 left off? Will Manthey handle final assembly?"
He said cryptically, "We're using a new platform, I can't say anything more about the car..."
So I'm not exactly sure what this means. It could mean there is a new 718 based GT4 that will be announced in late 2018 but released in 2019 alongside the race car. It could mean that the race car is homologated on the base 718 Cayman and not a GT4 Cayman. While I think this is a long shot... maybe the next GT4 car will be 911 based? Using a 911 platform car for GT4 would make sense against the McLaren 570, Audi R8 and AMG GT R which are all essentially super cars detuned for GT4 whereas the Camero, Mustang and Cayman are essentially sports cars tuned up. Of note the R8 GT4 at $250K is the same price as the 2016 GT4 Cayman MR. The AMG GT R GT4 is closer to $200K and includes a sequential race transmission, adjustable race ABS, etc. I don't know the answer. I just found it odd that they would release a race car without a corresponding street car.
I assume there is or there will be a street car that used to homologate the next Clubsport and GT4 race car. I was just thrown off by the "not in 2018" comment.
Guy from Porsche said, "We will have a base Clubsport race car and a Clubsport GT4 race car for the 2019 race season that is much more capable than the current Clubsport GT4 MR."
I said, "Does that mean there will be a new 718 GT4 street car in 2018 in order to homologate the race car?" Also, "Will it be NA or FI?
Right? Inquiring minds want to know!
He said "No plans for a new GT4 street car in 2018"
I said "How will you guys homologate the race car? Will you use the old GT4? Will it be some kind of an RS variant of the old car with the 4.0 picking up where the old GT4 left off? Will Manthey handle final assembly?"
He said cryptically, "We're using a new platform, I can't say anything more about the car..."
So I'm not exactly sure what this means. It could mean there is a new 718 based GT4 that will be announced in late 2018 but released in 2019 alongside the race car. It could mean that the race car is homologated on the base 718 Cayman and not a GT4 Cayman. While I think this is a long shot... maybe the next GT4 car will be 911 based? Using a 911 platform car for GT4 would make sense against the McLaren 570, Audi R8 and AMG GT R which are all essentially super cars detuned for GT4 whereas the Camero, Mustang and Cayman are essentially sports cars tuned up. Of note the R8 GT4 at $250K is the same price as the 2016 GT4 Cayman MR. The AMG GT R GT4 is closer to $200K and includes a sequential race transmission, adjustable race ABS, etc. I don't know the answer. I just found it odd that they would release a race car without a corresponding street car.
I assume there is or there will be a street car that used to homologate the next Clubsport and GT4 race car. I was just thrown off by the "not in 2018" comment.
12-13-2017, 09:52 AM
#66
Rennlist Member
Not to detract from this neat and informative thread (interesting dialogue with Porsche), but you’re deluding yourself with stating (albeit opinionated) incorrectly the demand for the GT4. Do you not remember the time at which the GT4 came about? If not, I’ll remind you..... It came about due to the fact that it was “supposedly” the only GT option for a long, long time that came in manual. What was AP stating from the onset of the 991 GT program? Simply that there was no need for rowing gears as it detracted lap times and increased driver involvement (which in turn increases lap times).
The above is not an opinion, but one based upon facts.
The above is not an opinion, but one based upon facts.
My comment on demand for the 981 GT4 was not opinionated. Don't misinterpret what I am saying. That demand wont compare to the GT3 and certainly not the 911R. PAG had to increase allocations during the production year to meet unanticipated demand. Demand for the GT4 would still have been huge even if the .1GT3 offered a manual purely because of the mid-engine platform with the 3.8L. And even without pdk as an option on the 981 GT4, demand was huge. The 718 GT4, almost certainly will have pdk and manual and if Porsche puts the GT3 engine in that car (what other NA engine do they have?) it is going to be highly sought after.
I see that the OP clarified his comments on the next generation GT4. Good news.
12-13-2017, 10:10 AM
#67
Perhaps I missed a comment somewhere, but I find it curious that no one is suggesting that this will be Porsche's next GT4 class race car. I mean, if McLaren can enter a 3.8L turbo, why can't Porsche?
12-13-2017, 10:46 AM
#68
Thank you for your wonderful impressions!
Let me just correct one statement: " -Leipzig makes 650 cars per day comprised of Panamera, Cayenne and Macan with new Cayenne model production already started in Osnabrück." This is definitely not right. The E3 Cayenne is not (at all) built at VW OS.
Let me just correct one statement: " -Leipzig makes 650 cars per day comprised of Panamera, Cayenne and Macan with new Cayenne model production already started in Osnabrück." This is definitely not right. The E3 Cayenne is not (at all) built at VW OS.
12-13-2017, 11:08 AM
#69
Nordschleife Master
Termsheet: best thread here in months. Thank you. Great info and pretty much ties in to a lot of my production statements, figures and calculations!
btw is your 991 Cup hydraulic valved?
Also interesting about your observation about the .1RS feeling more "Cup" like mechanical and raw than the .2GT3 with similar performance.
btw is your 991 Cup hydraulic valved?
Also interesting about your observation about the .1RS feeling more "Cup" like mechanical and raw than the .2GT3 with similar performance.
12-13-2017, 11:24 AM
#71
12-13-2017, 11:46 AM
#73
Thank You Termsheet for a most informative and captivating thread.
One of the best on RL in quite some time!
One of the best on RL in quite some time!
Last edited by Diablo Dude; 12-13-2017 at 12:11 PM.
12-13-2017, 12:10 PM
#74
I know that some here on RL place a lot of emphasis on AP's comment from the Geneva Motor Show in March 2016 about how GT cars will always be NA,
but things change and I have to believe that Porsche is very sensitive when it comes to "positioning" vehicles in their line-up and creating "overlap" and at what cost.
"On the GT models we want the six cylinders, the atmospheric engines."
- Andreas Preuninger
Last edited by Diablo Dude; 12-13-2017 at 12:33 PM.
12-13-2017, 03:16 PM
#75
Perhaps I missed a comment somewhere, but I find it curious that no one is suggesting that this will be Porsche's next GT4 class race car. I mean, if McLaren can enter a 3.8L turbo, why can't Porsche?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsKStob3Cwc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsKStob3Cwc