A drive in the GT3 Touring and Carrera T
#46
Excellent review, please keep it coming. Can't wait to see a few pictures and read your full impression of the GT3 Touring! From the teaser paragraph at the end, it's brilliant!
#48
Three Wheelin'
Pete will there be a Touring with PDK?
#50
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
No ducktail because you won't get the downforce (it's narrow, and by the time it's tall enough to compensate...).
I have been hitting them with that for a few years now, ever since the 991 debuted. I pick my moments.
To some of the other questions above:
R-compound tires on a T approved/can the lubrication system deal with them? Not approved, looks like (the tech expert here is checking into it).
Downforce differences between a GT3 and GT3T @ 70 mph: So negligible as to be a non-issue, and stays that way for a while yet.
Reason for Gurney: Only way to achieve their downforce goals. Less to do with R, but probably a lesson in some ways, yes.
Sound deadening: No one here has that answer, but someone is looking into it.
Suspension changes for GT3T: None, I'm told. Touring package is limited to exterior setup, brightwork (if customer is so inclined), and interior materials (btw...what looks like corduroy in pics and what they call corduroy is more like a zig-zaggy pattern that kind of looks like corduroy in some light to these eyes).
Why no satellite delete option for North America? Had to do with agreement with Sirius for North America, so it's a PCNA thing (this from a PCNA person along for the trip). Europe uses terrestrial digital radio, so no need for our wart.
GT4 vs. T: Let me cook on that. Have some thoughts, having just moved from 14,700 miles in a GT4 to a 991.2 Carrera for the last 2,000 miles and now spending time with the T, but that's a bigger question that may be better for a thread of its own.
Seatbelt mounting points: No. They are gone. Also, the GT dept did look at putting rear seats in the Touring, but it would have required changes to the unibody back there (mounting points as well as the possibility that the "seat indent" panel is rendered in thinner metal (this needs to be confirmed) as well as something, I'm told, that made it a real pain: The TÜV would then require the GT3 to be retested with the weight of two adults in the back seats and the tires to be rated accordingly, which would increase rear tire pressures and on and on. And you thought only America had too much bureaucracy...
T just a marketing ploy, or filling a gap in the model line? Neither. After a day with the car on great roads, it's really just a cool collection of options and special trim that either floats your boat or doesn't. I think it's neat because it breaks 20 years of Carrera model strategy and gives us our first driver-focused 911 based on the basic model since, what, the 964 RSA (and for Europeans, the 3.2 Club Sport?). We should be singing from rooftops that Porsche has decided to build a handling-oriented, simple 911 Carrera with a cool collection of parts and bits in the basic 911 pricing tier rather than the GT3/Turbo tier. That said, you can see how razor thin the "gap" was in the pricing. I'd skip all of the interior "upgrades" and T package stuff, but I'd have to have PCCB and a few other things...and the car gets to $115-118k awfully quickly, at which point the GTS is in view. But I like the narrower body. It's almost too bad they didn't make PSE an option at $3k; I suspect almost all T customers would take it—but ditching it would get the price down to $99k in the US and allow that $3k to be applied to PCCB. YMMV.
PDK in the Touring: Highly unlikely. Reason: At some point, it comes down to development dollars and the department is already adding models and variations—so it has to start picking and choosing, and it decided that this Touring would be a "puristic" offering with the manual.
Ok, that's what I've got for tonight. Need to get some rest, as they tell me it's 350 miles tomorrow with no freeways. Yes, it's like a dream...
I have been hitting them with that for a few years now, ever since the 991 debuted. I pick my moments.
To some of the other questions above:
R-compound tires on a T approved/can the lubrication system deal with them? Not approved, looks like (the tech expert here is checking into it).
Downforce differences between a GT3 and GT3T @ 70 mph: So negligible as to be a non-issue, and stays that way for a while yet.
Reason for Gurney: Only way to achieve their downforce goals. Less to do with R, but probably a lesson in some ways, yes.
Sound deadening: No one here has that answer, but someone is looking into it.
Suspension changes for GT3T: None, I'm told. Touring package is limited to exterior setup, brightwork (if customer is so inclined), and interior materials (btw...what looks like corduroy in pics and what they call corduroy is more like a zig-zaggy pattern that kind of looks like corduroy in some light to these eyes).
Why no satellite delete option for North America? Had to do with agreement with Sirius for North America, so it's a PCNA thing (this from a PCNA person along for the trip). Europe uses terrestrial digital radio, so no need for our wart.
GT4 vs. T: Let me cook on that. Have some thoughts, having just moved from 14,700 miles in a GT4 to a 991.2 Carrera for the last 2,000 miles and now spending time with the T, but that's a bigger question that may be better for a thread of its own.
Seatbelt mounting points: No. They are gone. Also, the GT dept did look at putting rear seats in the Touring, but it would have required changes to the unibody back there (mounting points as well as the possibility that the "seat indent" panel is rendered in thinner metal (this needs to be confirmed) as well as something, I'm told, that made it a real pain: The TÜV would then require the GT3 to be retested with the weight of two adults in the back seats and the tires to be rated accordingly, which would increase rear tire pressures and on and on. And you thought only America had too much bureaucracy...
T just a marketing ploy, or filling a gap in the model line? Neither. After a day with the car on great roads, it's really just a cool collection of options and special trim that either floats your boat or doesn't. I think it's neat because it breaks 20 years of Carrera model strategy and gives us our first driver-focused 911 based on the basic model since, what, the 964 RSA (and for Europeans, the 3.2 Club Sport?). We should be singing from rooftops that Porsche has decided to build a handling-oriented, simple 911 Carrera with a cool collection of parts and bits in the basic 911 pricing tier rather than the GT3/Turbo tier. That said, you can see how razor thin the "gap" was in the pricing. I'd skip all of the interior "upgrades" and T package stuff, but I'd have to have PCCB and a few other things...and the car gets to $115-118k awfully quickly, at which point the GTS is in view. But I like the narrower body. It's almost too bad they didn't make PSE an option at $3k; I suspect almost all T customers would take it—but ditching it would get the price down to $99k in the US and allow that $3k to be applied to PCCB. YMMV.
PDK in the Touring: Highly unlikely. Reason: At some point, it comes down to development dollars and the department is already adding models and variations—so it has to start picking and choosing, and it decided that this Touring would be a "puristic" offering with the manual.
Ok, that's what I've got for tonight. Need to get some rest, as they tell me it's 350 miles tomorrow with no freeways. Yes, it's like a dream...
#53
Thanx, but I don't like the PCCB push in your posts. S brake option or std would be enough for most IMHO. PCCBs reminds me too much of garage queens or C&C cars.
#54
Rennlist Member
+1
T proposition --- a minimalist, lightened, lower cost track rat modern 911
ok full buckets make me want the car, but the cheapo sh*t stock brakes ruin it... that is a poke in the eye of any real track enthusiast... ergo this just becomes a marketing/options exercise aimed at poseurs more than real trackers... too bad - porsche either wasn't thinking (doubtful) when they concepted this options package or they are just cynically looking for another way to empty more p-car fan wallets (much more likely)
and then, as pete says - to get real stopping power in aT u need to put ccb's on a T? c'mon, that's a joke - for tracking? puh-leez!!!!!
T proposition --- a minimalist, lightened, lower cost track rat modern 911
ok full buckets make me want the car, but the cheapo sh*t stock brakes ruin it... that is a poke in the eye of any real track enthusiast... ergo this just becomes a marketing/options exercise aimed at poseurs more than real trackers... too bad - porsche either wasn't thinking (doubtful) when they concepted this options package or they are just cynically looking for another way to empty more p-car fan wallets (much more likely)
and then, as pete says - to get real stopping power in aT u need to put ccb's on a T? c'mon, that's a joke - for tracking? puh-leez!!!!!
#55
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In a van down by the Ottawa River ...
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My last car was my first Porsche with PCCB brakes and I agree completely with Pete's assessment.
I would not order my Touring without PCCB.... It's a driver... certainly no garage queen or C&C.
#58
Burning Brakes
Boy, did you come through with the answers to the questions everyone is asking. Seriously impressive!!
Most impressive part is resisting that urge to crash in a hotel room after a long day for the purpose of doing a huge public service. Hats off to you!
Can't wait for your further impressions of the Touring...
Most impressive part is resisting that urge to crash in a hotel room after a long day for the purpose of doing a huge public service. Hats off to you!
Can't wait for your further impressions of the Touring...
#60
Race Director
Boy, did you come through with the answers to the questions everyone is asking. Seriously impressive!!
Most impressive part is resisting that urge to crash in a hotel room after a long day for the purpose of doing a huge public service. Hats off to you!
Can't wait for your further impressions of the Touring...
Most impressive part is resisting that urge to crash in a hotel room after a long day for the purpose of doing a huge public service. Hats off to you!
Can't wait for your further impressions of the Touring...