991.2GT3 vs GT4 (both manual)
07-23-2018, 06:57 PM
#46
I traded my GT4 for my .2 manual GT3. The .2 GT3 is awesome, and I wish I could say it was better in every single way, but to me there are some trade-offs. My initial impression after going from GT4 to GT3 was wow, this is a BIG, heavy, car. Still feel that way. For me it's not so much a preference for mid-engine vs. rear-engine, it's preferring lighter, smaller and nimbler to bigger and heavier. Yes, the GT4 is about chassis and handling, the GT3 is about the 4 ltr, 500 hp, 9k rpm, motorsport engine. But even if they put the GT3 motor in the GT4, there's a part of me that would still prefer the 911 layout. Just a smaller, lighter version of it. Don't get me wrong. I love it. But I'd love it more if was more similar to the GT4 in weight and dimensions.
If I'm completely honest, and was capable of being completely objective, if I could remove everything I know about the history of Porsche, the allure and aura of the 911, brand, marketing and model positioning, price, etc., from my brain, if I had been raised by wolves or came from Mars and the words "Cayman" and "911" meant nothing to me, there is a good chance I'd give the nod to the GT4. But as others have said, the 911 GT3 has that special "it" factor, the 911 heritage, etc.(and of course that motor!), and it scratches a major, deep-seeded, primal itch for me. I still pinch myself that I even own one. And it is a great car, and great to drive. But one day I may conclude that the GT4 was just a better overall package. Maybe by the time I reach that conclusion, they will have put the 4.0 motorsport engine in the GT4 platform!
I'm sure I've only added to the confusion. Conclusion: It's really hard to go wrong with choices like these. Even if I end up back in a GT4 (whether 981 or 718), I'll always be glad I owned both, and never regret having experienced a GT3. If you've never had one, I'd just do it. You can always go back.
If I'm completely honest, and was capable of being completely objective, if I could remove everything I know about the history of Porsche, the allure and aura of the 911, brand, marketing and model positioning, price, etc., from my brain, if I had been raised by wolves or came from Mars and the words "Cayman" and "911" meant nothing to me, there is a good chance I'd give the nod to the GT4. But as others have said, the 911 GT3 has that special "it" factor, the 911 heritage, etc.(and of course that motor!), and it scratches a major, deep-seeded, primal itch for me. I still pinch myself that I even own one. And it is a great car, and great to drive. But one day I may conclude that the GT4 was just a better overall package. Maybe by the time I reach that conclusion, they will have put the 4.0 motorsport engine in the GT4 platform!
I'm sure I've only added to the confusion. Conclusion: It's really hard to go wrong with choices like these. Even if I end up back in a GT4 (whether 981 or 718), I'll always be glad I owned both, and never regret having experienced a GT3. If you've never had one, I'd just do it. You can always go back.
07-23-2018, 08:30 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
I've re-read this same thread a few times in 2018, as I have a GT4 now - and a 991.2 GT3 (6mt, PTS) on the way. I just couldn't pass up the allocation opportunity for PTS. But it's a stretch to keep both, so I think something has to give.
The other night one of my buddy's kids was drooling over my GT4. He asked if I loved it. Of course I said yes. Then I told him I have a GT3 coming. He asked - "and will you love it more?"
.... and I was stopped in my tracks without an answer.... by a 7 yr old.
The other night one of my buddy's kids was drooling over my GT4. He asked if I loved it. Of course I said yes. Then I told him I have a GT3 coming. He asked - "and will you love it more?"
.... and I was stopped in my tracks without an answer.... by a 7 yr old.
07-23-2018, 09:22 PM
#48
All this reading is not good. I have a GT4 now and agree with all of the lightweight and balance comments on handling. Wish power was a little more. That being said I have a GT3 manual on the way in PTS. Almost tempted to keep both. Could afford it but issue for me is too many fun cars to maintain as I also have a z3 m coupe I can’t part with as well as a daily driver. Wish I had room for more cars as well as time to maintain them.
07-23-2018, 11:17 PM
#50
Burning Brakes
Really difficult cars to compare. Both the epitome of their types, but so different.
GT4 less powerful, but playful. Feels on its toes. Has all the power it needs IMO.
.2 GT3 is an event. The ultimate motorsports fix. The engine makes the car. The only other car I've ever driven where the engine is such a part of the experience was the 458, but the .2 also triggers every happy childhood memory in my brain related to motorsports. What's that worth?
GT4 less powerful, but playful. Feels on its toes. Has all the power it needs IMO.
.2 GT3 is an event. The ultimate motorsports fix. The engine makes the car. The only other car I've ever driven where the engine is such a part of the experience was the 458, but the .2 also triggers every happy childhood memory in my brain related to motorsports. What's that worth?
07-23-2018, 11:55 PM
#51
Race Director
Originally Posted by Mech33
I have a GT4 and a manual .2 GT3 and I feel very similar. GT3 is big, manual and clutch in the GT4 is better, GT4 feels smaller and more nimble. But that GT3 engine...
07-24-2018, 12:12 AM
#52
I owned a GT4 for over a year. Fantastic, small, crisp, precise fast car. Now I have had a .1 RS for almost 3 years and have a .2 GT3 for 4 months. The GT3 is a beast, loud, strong, very strong, surgically precise in handling and firmer car that competes with the RS in every way possible with one exception: The GT3 feels like it is going to come loose but doesn't while the RS never feels like it is going to come loose. I would say the GT3 is a class apart from the GT4. The engine pulls even more strongly than the RS in the lower to mid power band. There is really no comparison between the GT3 and the GT4.
07-24-2018, 08:40 AM
#53
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Posts: 12,403
Received 3,750 Likes
on
2,174 Posts
I can tell you while I have driven and love the 991.1 GT3, as a current GT4 owner (who tracks about 1x/month), I am only looking at moving up to a .1RS or .2GT3. The .1 GT3 would be a step up in performance from the GT4, but in my mind, the price delta isn't worth the uptick in gains, UNTIL we start considering the .1RS or .2GT3
For road use, I have a slight preference for the GT4. The manual is a bit more fun than PDK, I don't mind the problems with gearing and torque curve too much because they help keep me within sane road speeds, and I don't push the GT4 hard enough on the road for the suspension to be a problem.
On the track, I think the GT3 spanks the GT4, not just in outright pace, but also in handling and enjoyability near the limit.
So for road use, I'd stick with the GT4 and save some money. For track use or mixed track/road use, I think the GT3 is well worth the additional cost, especially with the extended engine warranty.
07-24-2018, 09:11 AM
#54
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Posts: 12,403
Received 3,750 Likes
on
2,174 Posts
I can't speak for the labor costs involved with other shops, but if you include some complimenting suspension geometry tweaks to the front as well like adjuster caster bushings, toe links, etc I'd estimate all three of those to be in the $20-$25k range for us to do it depending on the extent of additional tweaks to be done at the same time.
07-24-2018, 09:40 AM
#55
I have both the GT4 and 991.1 GT3.
For road use, I have a slight preference for the GT4. The manual is a bit more fun than PDK, I don't mind the problems with gearing and torque curve too much because they help keep me within sane road speeds, and I don't push the GT4 hard enough on the road for the suspension to be a problem.
On the track, I think the GT3 spanks the GT4, not just in outright pace, but also in handling and enjoyability near the limit.
So for road use, I'd stick with the GT4 and save some money. For track use or mixed track/road use, I think the GT3 is well worth the additional cost, especially with the extended engine warranty.
For road use, I have a slight preference for the GT4. The manual is a bit more fun than PDK, I don't mind the problems with gearing and torque curve too much because they help keep me within sane road speeds, and I don't push the GT4 hard enough on the road for the suspension to be a problem.
On the track, I think the GT3 spanks the GT4, not just in outright pace, but also in handling and enjoyability near the limit.
So for road use, I'd stick with the GT4 and save some money. For track use or mixed track/road use, I think the GT3 is well worth the additional cost, especially with the extended engine warranty.
If I had to choose one then the GT3 all the way (primarily because of the awesome new 4.0... revs so fast and revs so high) but I wouldn't complain much neither if I had no choice and got stuck with the GT4. The biggest advantage of the GT4 is its balance and nimbleness. But at the end of the day between the two I'm planning to keep only my GT3.2 so that's my answer. It's that effin good.... that new Motorsport 4.0 is really really good.
07-24-2018, 11:15 AM
#56
Burning Brakes
My 0.02...
Both great cars.
Bang for the buck, the GT4 is ahead IMHO. I prefered everything on the 4 except the engine/gearing.
You get all of it for almost half the price now...
If $$ does not matter too much, engine is much better in the 3!
Both great cars.
Bang for the buck, the GT4 is ahead IMHO. I prefered everything on the 4 except the engine/gearing.
You get all of it for almost half the price now...
If $$ does not matter too much, engine is much better in the 3!
07-24-2018, 02:23 PM
#57
4. The GT4 was smoother and quieter over rough roads. But the GT3 does better over smooth roads.
5. The more intimate cabin
6. The smoother gearbox. The GT4 was smooth from day 1 whereas the GT3 has been notchy for the 900 miles I've driven.
With that said, I'd still take the GT3. But oddly enough, the GT3 has made me appreciate the GT4 even more. It really is an amazing car regardless of price. Add in the fact that it's around $100k, and it really does stand alone in the marketplace IMO.
07-24-2018, 04:15 PM
#58
3rd Gear
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: SoFL
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Add me to the list of pre-nostalgic GT4 owners. I couldn't pass on a .2 GT3 6m PTS allocation, and I am already missing the GT4's smaller size (even if I am still daily driving it until the GT3 gets here in Oct). I hope the 4.0 engine will make up for it...
07-24-2018, 04:38 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Posts: 12,403
Received 3,750 Likes
on
2,174 Posts
Those of you who like the GT4 really need to try the Cayman R. We bought the GT4 expecting that it would be better than the Cayman R in every way and therefore replace it, but turns out that the Cayman R feels much lighter and smaller, has more feeling of mid-rev punch, and has wonderful hydraulic steering feel, so we plan to hang on to the Cayman R.
07-24-2018, 04:41 PM
#60
Intermediate
I have found the 991.2 GT3 to have more supple suspension and better ground clearance (without using the front axle lift). I find myself continously wanting to drive the GT3 where I did not really with the GT4 - I found the suspension harder and the car overall very low.
Also the power of the GT4 was a bit of a let down at altitude. The GT3 on the other hand......
Like others I think the GT4 was a sharper handling car - although quite a bit of understeer out the box and not really the power to misbehave. The GT3 feels slightly softer with the enough power to demand respect which I like
That being said I loved my GT4 but I am glad I made the switch to the GT3 and not looking back
Also the power of the GT4 was a bit of a let down at altitude. The GT3 on the other hand......
Like others I think the GT4 was a sharper handling car - although quite a bit of understeer out the box and not really the power to misbehave. The GT3 feels slightly softer with the enough power to demand respect which I like
That being said I loved my GT4 but I am glad I made the switch to the GT3 and not looking back