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I think I may go with dundon race headers with a custom pipe connecting it to an ipe catback. Have IPE sound with Dundon performance. Best of both worlds.
After speaking to Dundon rep and fact checking with other reputable sources, it's not recommended to run aftermarket headers on any exhaust not made of 321ss. The heat and oil canning will destroy normal mufflers. To my knowledge, only Dundon's lifetime mufflers are made of 321ss.
Our motors are in the back, the heat hitting the exhaust is way hotter than front engine vehicles. So I would think twice before mixing and matching. Heck, even aftermarket headers with stock center will cause it to crack and requires heavy metal work.
I wanted just slightly more volume without drones. All center mufflers sound the same to me, so I went with Soul Performance Products based on price and lifetime warranty. $895 shipped, I cannot complain too much if I decided to upgrade to full Dundons later. Don't believe any vendor who claims power gains with center mufflers, run if they do.
Take Matt from Obsessed Garage who tried everything (not exaggerating, the dude went through a few exhausts). Full Dundons if you have the cash and just Center Muffler if you don't want to mess with headers. If you want your car to sound like a super bike, go Titanium. If you want your car to sound like an F1 car and don't care about making power, go FI, Armytrix, or IPE.
Fabspeed LongTube Race headers seems reasonably priced and well made. For the price, it also seems a good option for me in the future.
Also note that our cars are NA. More free flowing doesn't mean more power, sometimes loses power. Only Dundon has done their proper homework to prove real gains to my knowledge. Heck, they even bought a 991.2 GT3 motor to test and that's commitment. Yes, they costs a kidney but what other exhaust manufacturer bought a 991.2 GT3 motor to mess with?
*I'm not a affiliated with any exhaust companies. I've done my hours of research and wanted to share.
I like the stock center muffler, and live in SC , no inspection, so I an run the Catless headers. I am most concerned with warranty and throwing codes. IF the code issue is moot, and it will not through codes, dont have to also do a tune (obsessed said something about not having to due a tune for his RS) and It is cool with my dealer for warranty, I am getting headers.
We have a catted system as well that produces the same power. That said our race system does not throw a CEL... Many many sold and installed around the world. The key to this is no air leaks and perfect fitment.
Originally Posted by drdonger
Dundon does not throw a cel.
Correct!
Originally Posted by 1Gunner
Without cats it must come with a tune or some other electronic fix to eliminate CELs.
Incorrect, no electronic fix, spoofing the ECU or tune is necessary with our headers, race or catted.
Originally Posted by drdonger
I think I may go with dundon race headers with a custom pipe connecting it to an ipe catback. Have IPE sound with Dundon performance. Best of both worlds.
IPE center muffler may fit if it is a direct replacement for the stock center muffler. If it connects to the stock cat position it won't fit. Our headers are quite a bit longer than stock, hence the custom side valved side pipes. Further our headers were optimized for merge at the center muffler, we've demonstrated previously a loss of power when this merge is lost.
Originally Posted by RS911
I too have been looking at the Akrapovic or the Dundon systems. One concern I have is, if these exhaust systems will pass the California smog (emission compliance).
We have catted (street) systems with 200 cell cats, many installed in CA.
The design keeps the length of our race headers so you can get just about all of the power from the race headers but have cats. Catted headers that are stock length or meet the stock side mufflers will have minimal gains...
After speaking to Dundon rep and fact checking with other reputable sources, it's not recommended to run aftermarket headers on any exhaust not made of 321ss. The heat and oil canning will destroy normal mufflers. To my knowledge, only Dundon's lifetime mufflers are made of 321ss.
Our motors are in the back, the heat hitting the exhaust is way hotter than front engine vehicles. So I would think twice before mixing and matching. Heck, even aftermarket headers with stock center will cause it to crack and requires heavy metal work.
I wanted just slightly more volume without drones. All center mufflers sound the same to me, so I went with Soul Performance Products based on price and lifetime warranty. $895 shipped, I cannot complain too much if I decided to upgrade to full Dundons later. Don't believe any vendor who claims power gains with center mufflers, run if they do.
Take Matt from Obsessed Garage who tried everything (not exaggerating, the dude went through a few exhausts). Full Dundons if you have the cash and just Center Muffler if you don't want to mess with headers. If you want your car to sound like a super bike, go Titanium. If you want your car to sound like an F1 car and don't care about losing power, go FI, Armytrix, or IPE.
Fabspeed LongTube Race headers seems reasonably priced and well made. I'll wait for 3rd party reports to see who has the most gains for the dollar.
Also note that our cars are NA. More free flowing doesn't mean more power, sometimes loses power. Only Dundon has done their proper homework to prove real gains to my knowledge. Heck, they even bought a 991.2 GT3 motor to test and that's commitment. Yes, they costs a kidney but what other exhaust manufacturer bought a 991.2 GT3 motor to mess with?
*I'm not a affiliated with any exhaust companies. I've done my hours of research and wanted to share.
Correct on most all points, eliminating side mufflers and tracking will put stress on the stock center muffler and cause it to crack. When you gain power, the power is from a gain in cylinder pressure, that pressure escaping into the exhaust system creates a stronger pressure wave, this stronger pressure wave in combination with the stock center mufflers weaknesses (no internal support, made from 304 or Ti) and no side mufflers to allow for partial expansion of the pressure wave contribute to the early demise of the stock center muffler.
I think I may go with dundon race headers with a custom pipe connecting it to an ipe catback. Have IPE sound with Dundon performance. Best of both worlds.
I would first go with the Dundon set-up and try it for 60 days before adding the IPE cat back. Why spend all that money when the Dundon, alone, may be the answer. I like the walk before you run practice. I once threw too many mods on at once and did not know which was responsible for what. If you add slowly you may realize you may not need the additional mods.
I would first go with the Dundon set-up and try it for 60 days before adding the IPE cat back. Why spend all that money when the Dundon, alone, may be the answer. I like the walk before you run practice. I once threw too many mods on at once and did not know which was responsible for what. If you add slowly you may realize you may not need the additional mods.
Race headers and OEM mufflers sound amazing. Fabspeed now makes a brace for the center muffler to prevent cracking.
A reputable race shop told me they've been using Fabspeed Longtube Race Headers with the center muffler brace. No issues whatsoever.
quote:Jnosal
After speaking to Dundon rep and fact checking with other reputable sources, it's not recommended to run aftermarket headers on any exhaust not made of 321ss. The heat and oil canning will destroy normal mufflers. To my knowledge, only Dundon's lifetime mufflers are made of 321ss.
Our motors are in the back, the heat hitting the exhaust is way hotter than front engine vehicles. So I would think twice before mixing and matching. Heck, even aftermarket headers with stock center will cause it to crack and requires heavy metal work.
I wanted just slightly more volume without drones. All center mufflers sound the same to me, so I went with Soul Performance Products based on price and lifetime warranty. $895 shipped, I cannot complain too much if I decided to upgrade to full Dundons later. Don't believe any vendor who claims power gains with center mufflers, run if they do.
Take Matt from Obsessed Garage who tried everything (not exaggerating, the dude went through a few exhausts). Full Dundons if you have the cash and just Center Muffler if you don't want to mess with headers. If you want your car to sound like a super bike, go Titanium. If you want your car to sound like an F1 car and don't care about making power, go FI, Armytrix, or IPE.
Fabspeed LongTube Race headers seems reasonably priced and well made. For the price, it also seems a good option for me in the future.
Also note that our cars are NA. More free flowing doesn't mean more power, sometimes loses power. Only Dundon has done their proper homework to prove real gains to my knowledge. Heck, they even bought a 991.2 GT3 motor to test and that's commitment. Yes, they costs a kidney but what other exhaust manufacturer bought a 991.2 GT3 motor to mess with?
*I'm not a affiliated with any exhaust companies. I've done my hours of research and wanted to share.
Jnosal, these are so cheap because they are made in China if I am not mistaken? If not I would like to see how Soul makes them or would like to hear them chime in.
Jnosal, these are so cheap because they are made in China if I am not mistaken? If not I would like to see how Soul makes them or would like to hear them chime in.
Hey Rob, our GT3 Center Muffler Bypass is made in Taiwan. We're happy to discuss the origin of our products.
Generally our goal is to plan out an exhaust component and try to make it stand out for any multitude of reasons - and perform them well. With the diversity of this thread as a great indicator - there is a wealth of options for the GT3. You have Dundon offering incredibly well engineered long tube headers, Akra with a very impressive titanium setup, and so many other vetted manufacturers providing pieces from different parts of the world - what could we offer this market that it doesn't already have? In this case, we aim to have the best priced center muffler bypass exhaust backed by a Lifetime Warranty (including track use) with a multitude of customizable tip options. If anyone manages to crack one at the track chasing a new lap record, we'll have another one in the mail same day. Some of our CMB customers want an intermediary solution between stock and a more expensive option (Jnosol)- maybe they want to test the waters (and in most cases their wives' ears) before going all out. Some just like a good deal and we're happy to provide.
While we could certainly build one in house, and we've drafted up designs and priced out components - we wouldn't be able to offer the best price. We selected a premiere facility in Taiwan to provide our CMB and we build the tips in house with the option for customization (cut, finish, length, logo) and inspect everything before it’s packed up securely. That said, we do build the majority of our exhaust components in house, from 991.2 Carrera sport cats to 997.1 Turbo x-pipe exhaust with much more coming.
As we grow as a company, expect to see more products, more strides in quality, more options, and more content! Cheers!
-Mike S
__________________ SOUL PERFORMANCE PRODUCTS Quality Exhaust Solutions, Fair Pricing, and Outstanding Service
John Gaydos- Owner, Performance Specialist
Cell - (484) 883-6197 johng@soulpp.com
I like the stock center muffler, and live in SC , no inspection, so I an run the Catless headers. I am most concerned with warranty and throwing codes. IF the code issue is moot, and it will not through codes, dont have to also do a tune (obsessed said something about not having to due a tune for his RS) and It is cool with my dealer for warranty, I am getting headers.
Hey Doug, I would double check with Hendrick about warranty issues with headers. They have gave me the vibe that it would draw a red flag if the issue could be possible link to the headers.
That being said, I would love to run the dundon race header but NC and their inspection.
They never seemed to have any problems with bypasses.
By the way I saw you last week in that pretty red .2 getting off 77 at exit 82c.
Hey Doug, I would double check with Hendrick about warranty issues with headers. They have gave me the vibe that it would draw a red flag if the issue could be possible link to the headers.
That being said, I would love to run the dundon race header but NC and their inspection.
They never seemed to have any problems with bypasses.
By the way I saw you last week in that pretty red .2 getting off 77 at exit 82c.
This is why we have our 200CPSI Catted Long Tube Street header system!
Also wanted to address another question we had. Our headers were designed properly from the right materials (321SS) from the start. Our runners clear the lower tray and the 911R/991.2 GT3 diffuser as we carefully designed them to protrude no lower than the bottom of the engine. Further our design was based on the engine power, and since the 991.2 power is very similar to the 991.1RS they are ideal for both the 991.1 GT3/RS and 991.2 GT3. Buy with confidence and remember all of our products have a 30 day unconditional love it or return it warranty and a lifetime warranty that includes track use.
Now to the pictures!
Dundon Long Tube Catted Street Header System for 991.1/991.2 GT3/RS (muffler not included)
Dundon Long Tube Catted Street Header System for 991.1/991.2 GT3/RS (muffler not included)
And as far as reinforcing the center mufflers are concerned, we've been welding reinforcements on for years and none of them prevent the the cracks from happening again...
Those cars that aren't tracked, likely won't have an issue. Those that are will likely fail.
Notice the cracks are not centralized in the lower region of the muffler, they spread up, they crack on the lower bends, etc...
This is exactly the reason we designed our own bullet proof Lifetime muffler out of 321 Stainless steel, reinforced internally to prevent oil canning and vibration. We also made 2 versions of it, one for a bit more sound than OEM and one for dB restricted tracks or those that want a bit less sound. This is a lifetime guaranteed product, like all of our products!
Internal Baffling to prevent oil canning, free vibration and support the structure of the muffler (all parts are 321 Stainless).
Last thing, thank you to all who have trusted us, worked with us and come to believe in us. We work hard everyday to try and bring you all the best made, most effective and long lasting products we can, all made in Gig Harbor, USA!
Recently I picked up my 991.2 GT3 after having the GMG muffler center muffler delete pipes installed and can assure you that the quality of this system is bar none, sound is amazing and can confirm a noticeable power increase. Prior to the install, when playing with the "launch control" the car's G positive longitudinal (acceleration) meter would register 0.92-0.93 g's, after the installation the g's read 1.01 to 1.02. GMG has been working on my cars for over 6 years, everything they've ever done has been great. They have my loyalty based on their excellent service and customer support.
Copy and paste the link below to see my amazing car and the sound.
Recently I picked up my 991.2 GT3 after having the GMG muffler center muffler delete pipes installed and can assure you that the quality of this system is bar none, sound is amazing and can confirm a noticeable power increase. Prior to the install, when playing with the "launch control" the car's G positive longitudinal (acceleration) meter would register 0.92-0.93 g's, after the installation the g's read 1.01 to 1.02. GMG has been working on my cars for over 6 years, everything they've ever done has been great. They have my loyalty based on their excellent service and customer support.
Copy and paste the link below to see my amazing car and the sound.
Pretty impressive that the car's AI-based computer gets so excited by the extra noise that it feels the need to post better numbers on the G-force screen.
Pretty impressive that the car's AI-based computer gets so excited by the extra noise that it feels the need to post better numbers on the G-force screen.
Pretty impressive that the car's AI-based computer gets so excited by the extra noise that it feels the need to post better numbers on the G-force screen.
10% increase in longitudinal G's means at LEAST a 10% increase in torque. So the GMG muffler delete must add, at minimum, 34 lb-ft of wheel torque. Well done, GMG!
Or, perhaps, something is amiss with that anecdote
10% increase in longitudinal G's means at LEAST a 10% increase in torque. So the GMG muffler delete must add, at minimum, 34 lb-ft of wheel torque. Well done, GMG!
Or, perhaps, something is amiss with that anecdote
Take it easy guys...LOL ..I don't think Rob was claiming the extra power gains per say as we don't make those claims either (no one should on any unit), I think a lot of this was because he put 1500 miles on the car driving it back from ATL after taking delivery at the Porsche Center in Atlanta and I am sure this loosened up his engine a bit....then a better launch on Launch Control, tire pressure settings, etc....just let him enjoy it........I still have to wait another 5 months for mine!!
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James F. Sofronas | President & Owner
Global Motorsports Group ™
E: james@gmgracing.com
P: +1 (714) 432-1582
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W: gmgracing.com
01-16-2018, 05:19 PM
