991R vs 991.2 GT3 Touring
11-16-2017, 04:02 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by randr
I would love to see the comparison between the 1390Kg 997 GT3 RS 4l NA (460Nm and 500PS) and the 991.2 GT3 4l NA. 
If u see my 997 4.0 for sale in a few months, I guess the new one won the goosebump contest also. No doubt it will win every other category (except maybe doubling as a calf extension workout).
11-16-2017, 09:41 PM
#32
Ya...because there's so many R's running around with no radios and A/C 
There's no way there's a 50-70 kg difference between an R and a GT3 touring when optioned the same. A magnesium roof doesn't drop that much weight.
In fairness though; every kg probably helps when you're pushing an R down the side of the road after the beta-tester motor blows up.
There's no way there's a 50-70 kg difference between an R and a GT3 touring when optioned the same. A magnesium roof doesn't drop that much weight.
In fairness though; every kg probably helps when you're pushing an R down the side of the road after the beta-tester motor blows up.
There have not been any documented top end failures of the G series engine from the RS and the 911R. This was recently discussed by Dr Walliser at the Meeting in Atlanta between Porsche and concerned Owners from Rennlist.
11-17-2017, 12:57 AM
#33
Rennlist Member
Drifting: I am sorry, but that is incorrect. Porsche always states their weights in the cars lightest possible spec with 90% full fuel tank (this has been covered in many previous threads). According to the factory, the 911 R in ist lightest possible spec weighs 1370 kg. Similarly, the 991.2 GT3 (manual) in ist lightest possible spec weighs 1413 kg.
This means that there will at least be 43 kg weight difference between the two cars (if you leave the R plain). If you spec the 991.2 GT3 with clubsport package and steel brakes the difference will more like 75 kg.
This means that there will at least be 43 kg weight difference between the two cars (if you leave the R plain). If you spec the 991.2 GT3 with clubsport package and steel brakes the difference will more like 75 kg.
When the 991.1 GT3 was announced including the weight, LWBs were not an option yet. AP says the 991.2 GT3 weighs exactly the same as the .1 after they lightened several parts of the car to compensate for the larger heavier engine in the .2.
Unless you have specific evidence that the .2 GT3’s base weight includes LWBs, I don’t believe it.
One also has to consider what was modified on the 911R which is basically a 991 parts bin car. The CF front fenders and hood are worth about 5lbs apiece. The magnesium roof saves 4 pounds. That’s only approx 20lbs of weight savings. If you do weigh the car in the lightest possible spec, with the single mass flywheel, you save another 11 pounds. That’s only 30 lbs of weight saving.
Where are you seeing another 60 pounds of weight savings in the 911R?
11-17-2017, 01:28 AM
#34
They might state the weight with the PCCBs, but I’m positive they don’t state it with radio delete and I doubt they state it with LWBs.
When the 991.1 GT3 was announced including the weight, LWBs were not an option yet. AP says the 991.2 GT3 weighs exactly the same as the .1 after they lightened several parts of the car to compensate for the larger heavier engine in the .2.
Unless you have specific evidence that the .2 GT3’s base weight includes LWBs, I don’t believe it.
One also has to consider what was modified on the 911R which is basically a 991 parts bin car. The CF front fenders and hood are worth about 5lbs apiece. The magnesium roof saves 4 pounds. That’s only approx 20lbs of weight savings. If you do weigh the car in the lightest possible spec, with the single mass flywheel, you save another 11 pounds. That’s only 30 lbs of weight saving.
Where are you seeing another 60 pounds of weight savings in the 911R?
When the 991.1 GT3 was announced including the weight, LWBs were not an option yet. AP says the 991.2 GT3 weighs exactly the same as the .1 after they lightened several parts of the car to compensate for the larger heavier engine in the .2.
Unless you have specific evidence that the .2 GT3’s base weight includes LWBs, I don’t believe it.
One also has to consider what was modified on the 911R which is basically a 991 parts bin car. The CF front fenders and hood are worth about 5lbs apiece. The magnesium roof saves 4 pounds. That’s only approx 20lbs of weight savings. If you do weigh the car in the lightest possible spec, with the single mass flywheel, you save another 11 pounds. That’s only 30 lbs of weight saving.
Where are you seeing another 60 pounds of weight savings in the 911R?
11-17-2017, 06:10 AM
#35
Fortunately, as much as you would like to see a problem with the 911R, there is none. The engine has been fine and the car has proven to be more than the sum of its parts, both from a financial perspective and a driving experience.
There have not been any documented top end failures of the G series engine from the RS and the 911R. This was recently discussed by Dr Walliser at the Meeting in Atlanta between Porsche and concerned Owners from Rennlist.
There have not been any documented top end failures of the G series engine from the RS and the 911R. This was recently discussed by Dr Walliser at the Meeting in Atlanta between Porsche and concerned Owners from Rennlist.
As an investment since the release of the .2 GT3 though; values have been on a Jules Verne-esque Journey to the Center of the Earth.
Keep telling yourself there's nothing wrong with the G; I'm sure Porsche just went to the motorsports top-end because it was cheaper. The G is the sum of all their bandages on the worst motor they created since the M96.
Company with financial interest tells everyone - "nothing to see here."
You -
11-17-2017, 06:28 AM
#36
Race Director
I really do not think there is going to be much of a difference. There will be subtle ones all based on software
11-17-2017, 07:44 AM
#38
Race Car
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Where the 60kg 120lbs come from?
the diff are
mag roof instead of alu roof
carbon bumpers instead of plastic bumpers
less sound deading foam
120lbs??? not believe the Touring and R real weights are more than 15kg 30lbs
the diff are
mag roof instead of alu roof
carbon bumpers instead of plastic bumpers
less sound deading foam
120lbs??? not believe the Touring and R real weights are more than 15kg 30lbs
11-17-2017, 07:49 AM
#39
...except that those are the weights filled with fuel hence "vollgetankt";
"Mit vollem 64-Liter-Tank ist unser R-Testwagen mit lediglich 1.381 Kilo sogar genau 80 Kilo leichter als der GT3 RS" << The R has the 64 liter tank.
"Der GT3 verfehlt die 100er-Vorgabe um ein Zehntel, die 200er um eine Sekunde, auch weil er den 90-Liter-Optionstank an Bord hat. << The .2 GT3 has the optional 90 liter tank.
26 liters of fuel @ 0.745 kg/L = 19.37 kg. Now we're down to a 45kg difference and we don't even have a full options listing for both cars.
"Mit vollem 64-Liter-Tank ist unser R-Testwagen mit lediglich 1.381 Kilo sogar genau 80 Kilo leichter als der GT3 RS" << The R has the 64 liter tank.
"Der GT3 verfehlt die 100er-Vorgabe um ein Zehntel, die 200er um eine Sekunde, auch weil er den 90-Liter-Optionstank an Bord hat. << The .2 GT3 has the optional 90 liter tank.
26 liters of fuel @ 0.745 kg/L = 19.37 kg. Now we're down to a 45kg difference and we don't even have a full options listing for both cars.
Last edited by destaccado; 11-17-2017 at 08:13 AM.
11-17-2017, 08:17 AM
#42
They aren't relevant facts unless we have a list of all the options.
Most people here don't read German and shouldn't need to dig to discover that the cars are being weighed with 26 liters of fuel difference. Who knows what else...
I think I read the new motor is slightly heavier somewhere.
Ultimately, carbon fenders and a magnesium roof are really nice touches. A superior motor is even nicer.
Most people here don't read German and shouldn't need to dig to discover that the cars are being weighed with 26 liters of fuel difference. Who knows what else...
I think I read the new motor is slightly heavier somewhere.
Ultimately, carbon fenders and a magnesium roof are really nice touches. A superior motor is even nicer.
11-17-2017, 09:22 AM
#44
11-17-2017, 09:44 AM
#45
Drifting
I believe the new .2GT3 has the "better" engine... time will tell.
I am looking forward to seeing how the latest gt3 "feels/sounds" vs my previous 997RS-4.0 ltre
I am looking forward to seeing how the latest gt3 "feels/sounds" vs my previous 997RS-4.0 ltre