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991R vs 991.2 GT3 Touring

 
Old 12-24-2017, 11:33 AM
  #181  
fxz
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The RS has a Pdk-s and a 21/20 wheels not a Manual 20/20 setup
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Old 12-24-2017, 12:38 PM
  #182  
C.J. Ichiban
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Originally Posted by fxz
GT3 have more HP than the R ,
dont forget that hydraulic valvetrain (on the R) need HP to work, not to mention the less engine parts friction (on the GT3)

Both have manual

Both can be suspensions,tires and rims modified to meet your street/road preference

over an 8,500 rpm diluited song i do always prefer a 9,000 true rock one
The 2018 GT3, the 911R, the 2016 RS and the 2011 4.0 all have 500HP. Or, 493HP depending on what market you are in.
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Old 12-24-2017, 01:28 PM
  #183  
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Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban
This week I had the chance to drive my R, my 4.0RS, a 550 Maranello, a 2018 GTS manual, a GT4, 964RS and a 2018 GT3. No BS- this is my job, it's fun and I had interested customers in all the cars or was doing initial shake down drives to assess tire balance, suspension bushings, etc.

They all make really good power, or noise, or both. They are all good collectable type cars for the future for various reasons.

The 4.0 and the R both have the lightweight flywheel which does lead to a slightly different feeling from the 2018 cars, the GT3 and GTS.

Driving the GTS and GT3 back to back is very interesting. I even specced them the same- sapphire/ manual /ceramics. They have very similar acceleration and although the hardcore womp of 9k rpms was not on the menu (break in miles) the differences are subtle and not massive. A base 911 is a huge gulf to a GTS or GT3. Huge. But, the top of a mountain is only so tall.

The noise from the R and Gt3 is not equal in the sense that the R with the lightweight flywheel makes more "noise" from clatter and rattle vs the GT3 which is a cleaner, more narrow or "bright" noise. Making noise, being loud...not equal terms.

For audiophiles- or guitarists- the R is a Fender Strat and the GT3 is a Les Paul. The R makes more ancillary noises or ALLOWS more ancillary noises. Some faint distortion, or muddier. The R feels livelier simply due to the flywheel and spring rates. The weight difference is minimal (both have buckets) and mostly down to spec (radio delete in R vs GT3 bose, R without nose lift. )


The 964RS and the R, are the closest cars spritually. The 4.0 stands alone as it's own animal. It feels less tame than any of the others.

The GT3 feels like a cyborg compared to a 964.RS. The GTS is REALLY good if you spec it right and as an alternative to a GT3 touring, the GTS has more torque and will be a better 'touring' car with 18 ways vs a GT3T with buckets.
CJ, thanks for those enlightening thoughts and not letting the trolls keep those lucky enough to have this kind of seat time for sharing.

As someone who would like to replace my car with a GT3 Touring at some point, can you elaborate on how the GTS compares? Does the GTS feel that much more special than a Carrera or S? Driven both and they are underwhelming, even compared to my .1 C2S.

Thanks.
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Old 12-24-2017, 04:00 PM
  #184  
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Originally Posted by Needsdecaf
CJ, thanks for those enlightening thoughts and not letting the trolls keep those lucky enough to have this kind of seat time for sharing.

As someone who would like to replace my car with a GT3 Touring at some point, can you elaborate on how the GTS compares? Does the GTS feel that much more special than a Carrera or S? Driven both and they are underwhelming, even compared to my .1 C2S.

Thanks.
I'm with you. I owned a 17 c2s and I traded it after a year. I just couldn't get into the engine it felt small. I just felt like there was more turbo than motor vs a turbo supplementing the motor.

I cancelled my gts because it was just basically bigger turbos and i didn't like it as it was ..
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Old 12-24-2017, 06:51 PM
  #185  
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Major objective contributors to road-feel differences in my eyes:
  • Shock tuning. While the stacked spring setup for the 991.2 GT3 was slightly revised, the main spring rates between it and the R appear identical. The damper tuning is significantly different, however, and I suspect that's mainly responsible for in the GT3's tighter body control. RWS tuning is also different and may contribute slightly.
  • Extra 500 rpm. Below you can see the on-paper acceleration of the two cars assuming published weights and aero along with Sport Auto's dynos (for the GT3 RS in the R's case). The GT3's got a slightly wider power curve, but it's the ability to hold onto a gear longer that more than cancels out the R's lighter weight in a straight line until ~180 mph, when the R's aero takes over.
  • At that ~180+ I suspect there is a substantial difference in how planted the cars feel.
  • Single mass flywheel.
Interesting to the extra 500 rpm at work graphically. If you're able to fully rev it out the new engine seems a significant change (objectively, anyway) even if the headline figures are identical.

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Old 12-24-2017, 08:09 PM
  #186  
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Hell no, one don't want to drive the 911R above 180mph, or even 170mph.

When I drove mine on the Autobahn, the car starts to get quite uncomfortable above 160mph/260+km/hr. it starts getting floaty. Around 260km/hr is about the max I would want to drive the car at.

That punty diffuser doesn't really do much if at all at speed. Easy to tell in the rain watching the water 'spray'. An 911R at speed throws around around the same shape spray as a normal 911, basically just a scattered cloud of water, no definition whatsoever, even at 250+km/hr. In contrast, My Ferraris, the 2 big V12 and the Speciale have glorious tails even at 140km/hr. The 918 also have a spectacular one, the little Huracan I think has the most defined shaped one. I believe even my Aston has a better one than the 911R.


Originally Posted by Petevb View Post
Major objective contributors to road-feel differences in my eyes:
  • Shock tuning. While the stacked spring setup for the 991.2 GT3 was slightly revised, the main spring rates between it and the R appear identical. The damper tuning is significantly different, however, and I suspect that's mainly responsible for in the GT3's tighter body control. RWS tuning is also different and may contribute slightly.
  • Extra 500 rpm. Below you can see the on-paper acceleration of the two cars assuming published weights and aero along with Sport Auto's dynos (for the GT3 RS in the R's case). The GT3's got a slightly wider power curve, but it's the ability to hold onto a gear longer that more than cancels out the R's lighter weight in a straight line until ~180 mph, when the R's aero takes over.
  • At that ~180+ I suspect there is a substantial difference in how planted the cars feel.
  • Single mass flywheel.
Interesting to the extra 500 rpm at work graphically. If you're able to fully rev it out the new engine seems a significant change (objectively, anyway) even if the headline figures are identical.

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Old 12-25-2017, 03:54 AM
  #187  
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Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban View Post
The 2018 GT3, the 911R, the 2016 RS and the 2011 4.0 all have 500HP. Or, 493HP depending on what market you are in.
Totally wrong or better said you are right on non-tech newsmagazines marketing
but in reality

7 RS 4.0 has a compression ratio of 12.6
whilst R and 1.1RS have 12.9

.2GT3 ratio is 13.3 (this make the .2GT3 engine sound better in a motorsport way)

, not only, compared to the others the .2GT3
revs significantly higher, until 9k rpm (this make the .2GT3 engine sound better in a motorsport way)

13.3 ratio , 9krpm,
which means MORE HP along the TIME curve

more comes from .3GT3:
No hydraulic valvetrain
No hydraulic steering (opposed to 7RS)
Less engine and tranmission frictions

which means MORE HP to the wheels


add even more, vs the R, the .2GT3 manual
has, when grip make it possible,
more aggressive LSD setup,
which means MORE HP to the wheels

Last edited by fxz; 12-25-2017 at 05:55 AM.
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Old 12-25-2017, 05:21 AM
  #188  
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Originally Posted by fxz View Post
Totally wrong or better said you are right on non-tech newsmagazines marketing
but in reality

7 RS 4.0 has a compression ratio of 12.6
whilst R and 1.1RS have 12.9

.2GT3 ratio is 13.3 (this make the .2GT3 engine sound better in a motorsport way)

, not only, compared to the others the .2GT3
revs significantly higher, until 9k rpm (this make the .2GT3 engine sound better in a motorsport way)

13.3 ratio , 9krpm,
which means MORE HP along the TIME curve

more comes from .3GT3:
No hydraulic lifters
No hydraulic steering (7RS)
which means MORE HP to the wheels


add even more, vs the R, the .2GT3 manual
has, when grip make it possible,
more aggressive LSD setup,
which means MORE HP to the wheels
Lift ! Ouah... less power cause the lift !
one more who wants to be right even with specious arguments

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Old 12-25-2017, 05:51 AM
  #189  
fxz
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Originally Posted by rickman_fr View Post


Lift ! Ouah... less power cause the lift !
one more who wants to be right even with specious arguments







Mr Specious the solid lifters valvetrain is not the from axle lift!

Last edited by fxz; 12-25-2017 at 06:27 AM.
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Old 12-25-2017, 11:56 AM
  #190  
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Originally Posted by fxz View Post
Mr Specious the solid lifters valvetrain is not the from axle lift!
it was ironic... in the end, Porsche provides a 500 hp engine and the rest is just literature.


I just hope that this engine has potential because it's been 7 years since Porsche offers the same thing! we will see with the 991 RS.2
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Old 12-25-2017, 12:16 PM
  #191  
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Originally Posted by rickman_fr View Post


it was ironic... in the end, Porsche provides a 500 hp engine and the rest is just literature.


I just hope that this engine has potential because it's been 7 years since Porsche offers the same thing! we will see with the 991 RS.2

of course but I guess this engine is on published performance data voluntarly marketing watered down

to avoid irritating .1RS
or to leave space for .2RS?

maybe both if we think in .2GT3 4.0 solid lifters alone save 9HP

I hate ring time but all with "500"HP
.7RS4.0 was 7.27 whilst .2GT3 4.0 7.13
.1RS if I remember correctly 7.20

ah okay for the latter that day was a rainy day!

Merry Christmas to all
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Old 12-25-2017, 12:33 PM
  #192  
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Originally Posted by Whoopsy
Hell no, one don't want to drive the 911R above 180mph, or even 170mph.

When I drove mine on the Autobahn, the car starts to get quite uncomfortable above 160mph/260+km/hr. it starts getting floaty. Around 260km/hr is about the max I would want to drive the car at.

That punty diffuser doesn't really do much if at all at speed. Easy to tell in the rain watching the water 'spray'. An 911R at speed throws around around the same shape spray as a normal 911, basically just a scattered cloud of water, no definition whatsoever, even at 250+km/hr. In contrast, My Ferraris, the 2 big V12 and the Speciale have glorious tails even at 140km/hr. The 918 also have a spectacular one, the little Huracan I think has the most defined shaped one. I believe even my Aston has a better one than the 911R.
Makes me think of this video when Henry Catchpole tries to test AP's claim that in the R you can change lanes at 300 KPH. Didn't look all that stable at high speeds...

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Old 12-25-2017, 12:36 PM
  #193  
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Originally Posted by Petevb View Post
Interesting to the extra 500 rpm at work graphically. If you're able to fully rev it out the new engine seems a significant change (objectively, anyway) even if the headline figures are identical.

That's a really interesting graph cheers. Amazing to see the impact of the additional revs put like that actually.
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Old 12-25-2017, 01:14 PM
  #194  
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Originally Posted by Whoopsy View Post
Hell no, one don't want to drive the 911R above 180mph, or even 170mph.

When I drove mine on the Autobahn, the car starts to get quite uncomfortable above 160mph/260+km/hr. it starts getting floaty. Around 260km/hr is about the max I would want to drive the car at.

That punty diffuser doesn't really do much if at all at speed. Easy to tell in the rain watching the water 'spray'. An 911R at speed throws around around the same shape spray as a normal 911, basically just a scattered cloud of water, no definition whatsoever, even at 250+km/hr. In contrast, My Ferraris, the 2 big V12 and the Speciale have glorious tails even at 140km/hr. The 918 also have a spectacular one, the little Huracan I think has the most defined shaped one. I believe even my Aston has a better one than the 911R.
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Makes me think of this video when Henry Catchpole tries to test AP's claim that in the R you can change lanes at 300 KPH. Didn't look all that stable at high speeds...
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Merry Christmas everybody!



Last edited by BusDriver; 12-25-2017 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 12-25-2017, 01:38 PM
  #195  
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This is a .1 but supposedly in the comments the .2 GT3 beats the .1 RS every time.
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