Waiting on your GT3 to arrive? Prepare yourself.
11-12-2017, 06:12 PM
#61
speak for yourself. Put my cars under any type of light and you will find nothing except perfection.
11-12-2017, 06:21 PM
#62
Don’t understand why some are flipping out on the prices/Services and say he is using a scare tactic. Some people want perfection some dont. No one is forcing you to get rid of all the swirls and holgrams on your paint. Neither is anyone forcing a full clear bra onto your car at gunpoint. To each his own.
look forward to watching some of your vids on YouTube
look forward to watching some of your vids on YouTube
11-12-2017, 06:28 PM
#63
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
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11-12-2017, 07:52 PM
#64
I am particular and all my Porsche’s have had extensive paint correction, wrap,and nano ceramic after delivery but you don’t need a magnifying glass nor be totally **** to see the imperfections in my car. Thankfully the dealer has stepped up. It will take a lot of polishing all panels and maybe paint on the hood but I have confidence,,,,,,,,with fingers crossed.
11-12-2017, 08:06 PM
#65
Rennlist Member
I've noticed that Porsche paint SUCKED after the 997.2 to 991.1 switch. I've also been telling people that the only way to have your car actually present itself at the price point at which it sits is to do corrective work and then protective to it. Is it something I do because I'm **** with my cars? HELL YES. But I end up enjoying them more when I know they are as perfect as possible. Just how I am. I love that threads like this exist, because they are services I've enjoyed (granted not by OP) for years and when people ask why my cars look so amazing, or ask how I've sold my cars for as much as I have...it's often because of that extra investment. So keep on doing what you do OP and don't pay anyone else mind who says otherwise in this case.
11-12-2017, 08:44 PM
#66
Burning Brakes
I think something that has been lost between the twists and turns of this thread is the original public service announcement of the OP.
Any general light marring or light surface defects in paint is to be expected and you either don't notice it nor care (and that's completely cool), you have it removed by the dealer if they have a competent detailing department (that's partly why dealer prep exists), or you have a high end detailer (or yourself) take it to the next level. Zero cause for alarm there.
Heavy scratches or defects that don't go through the clear but require heavy leveling are absolutely not acceptable on a $60K automobile, never mind a $160K automobile. A competent detailer can tell the difference, IMHO Porsche should be picking up the tab for those types of correction services.
I won't go into the differences between old paint and modern paint, or paint chemistry, but any defect through the clear coat is completely unacceptable. Only a really competent detailer can spot that on a shiny brand new car, but that's completely unforgivable IMO and simply shouldn't be happening.
Time will tell what mix of these we actually see, but for those that care it pays to be on the lookout...
Any general light marring or light surface defects in paint is to be expected and you either don't notice it nor care (and that's completely cool), you have it removed by the dealer if they have a competent detailing department (that's partly why dealer prep exists), or you have a high end detailer (or yourself) take it to the next level. Zero cause for alarm there.
Heavy scratches or defects that don't go through the clear but require heavy leveling are absolutely not acceptable on a $60K automobile, never mind a $160K automobile. A competent detailer can tell the difference, IMHO Porsche should be picking up the tab for those types of correction services.
I won't go into the differences between old paint and modern paint, or paint chemistry, but any defect through the clear coat is completely unacceptable. Only a really competent detailer can spot that on a shiny brand new car, but that's completely unforgivable IMO and simply shouldn't be happening.
Time will tell what mix of these we actually see, but for those that care it pays to be on the lookout...
11-12-2017, 08:52 PM
#67
Rennlist Member
The OP is a poorly disguised marketing attempt, attempting to prey on buyers fear, and collapses under its own lack of reason and common sense:
1. Why would Porsche, one of the absolutely most respected and worshipped auto manufacturers in the world, with everything to lose, deliver anything but perfect paint finish on one of their absolute flagship models? Delivery pressure is of course not a reason for them to deliver anything but perfectly finished cars. Thats why we are waiting 11-14 months for our orders. There are absolutely no compromises made.
2. Why would you take your freshly delivered, brand new, 2018 GT3 to some local detailing garage who think they are understanding paint better than the 1000+ elite German engineers working full time to optimise this process day out and day in? The original paint finish has been applied by robots and thoroughly QCed, and contains much more than only the paint. It has been polished, buffed, protected, sealed and what not, with agents, and in a manner, uncomprehensible to anyone but Porsches own painting engineers or coating professionals or chemists.
3. If the paint job is anything but sub-standard upon delivery, simply point it out to your Porsche dealer and surely they will rectify it in accordance with absolutely specific standards issued by Porsche AG, and not some guy in a garage who has been watching how to polish on youtube and practiced on the neighbour´s pickup truck.
No, I'm not working for Porsche, and yes, I fiercely love the brand, and yes, I have worked in Germany and I can assure you that there is absolutely nothing random nor sub-standard about how a Porsche is designed, engineered, tested, painted and polished.
That was today´s rant, thank you.
1. Why would Porsche, one of the absolutely most respected and worshipped auto manufacturers in the world, with everything to lose, deliver anything but perfect paint finish on one of their absolute flagship models? Delivery pressure is of course not a reason for them to deliver anything but perfectly finished cars. Thats why we are waiting 11-14 months for our orders. There are absolutely no compromises made.
2. Why would you take your freshly delivered, brand new, 2018 GT3 to some local detailing garage who think they are understanding paint better than the 1000+ elite German engineers working full time to optimise this process day out and day in? The original paint finish has been applied by robots and thoroughly QCed, and contains much more than only the paint. It has been polished, buffed, protected, sealed and what not, with agents, and in a manner, uncomprehensible to anyone but Porsches own painting engineers or coating professionals or chemists.
3. If the paint job is anything but sub-standard upon delivery, simply point it out to your Porsche dealer and surely they will rectify it in accordance with absolutely specific standards issued by Porsche AG, and not some guy in a garage who has been watching how to polish on youtube and practiced on the neighbour´s pickup truck.
No, I'm not working for Porsche, and yes, I fiercely love the brand, and yes, I have worked in Germany and I can assure you that there is absolutely nothing random nor sub-standard about how a Porsche is designed, engineered, tested, painted and polished.
That was today´s rant, thank you.
The "conflict of interest" is obvious to anyone when they read the post, but if you ever had the opportunity to have one of these experts analyze and take care of your car....the final results are often stunning.
Having said that, there is definitely diminishing returns after a certain point, and I have friends who obsess about crazy minutia with crazy $$ spent and little marginal benefit after a certain point.
As stated earlier...ferrari is WAAAY worse....like beyond bad.
11-12-2017, 09:13 PM
#68
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Having known Jean Claude, OP, for many years, and also being in the industry myself for almost 25 years, I believe we need give a general level of professionalism and courtesy to someone that is a sponsor AND someone that freely gives his time and advice to the Porsche community.
Our industry is filled with those claiming to be “professional” but lacking the skills and/or level of passion and technical know-how on working on the very cars you members own.
The recent trend in our industry is filled with claims of products that are filled with bogus claims, advetorials, false hope of the actual performance vs. lab results under ideal conditions. The consumer must definitely do his/her homework.
Rennlist community is blessed because we have members that truly care about caring for their vehicles, some more ocd than others, and it has also nurtured an environment for sponsors like JC and me to be valued. In return, we share our wealth of knowledge that has been earned through years of hard work and dedication...long before there was YouTube or even the internet...I believe a beeper was my main source of contact when I started out back in the 90s.
So, please give respect and credit where it’s due, and if you don’t agree, share you thoughts in a productive and constructive manner.
i can tell you, as I get older, turning 40 this year, and owning new cars, my values have changed, and so has my business model. We now focus on providing clients with the highest value and the best use of our time and their money. We don’t give our clients false hopes of a swirl-free finish, or a coating that takes the place of washing your car, etc.
we listen to the client and and offer solutions to their unique problems. What JC has pointed out in this thread is something that all of us detailers have known about for years. I cannot speak for him, but my interpretation was a PSA to make owners of these amazing cars aware of what to look for.
Once you are aware, it is totally your call, as to how far to go. This car is something you have worked hard for to attain, and no one should sell you on anything. But it’s good to know what imperfections a new car can consistently come with, and what can be done to make that problem go away, if in fact, it is a problem for you.
i hope this helps to hear it from another detailer’s point of...one that cares about the community, because it’s that very same community that made this one man show into a huge success and fulfilled my wildest dreams. I now have a beautiful family with three children that are around These amazing cars from the time they were little babies.
Lord knows how much they’re absorbing snd will hopefully be caring for your children’s Porsche with the same passion their father has.
we have a wonderful community here ladies and gentlemen...let’s make sure it’s a place where we truly benefit one another
Our industry is filled with those claiming to be “professional” but lacking the skills and/or level of passion and technical know-how on working on the very cars you members own.
The recent trend in our industry is filled with claims of products that are filled with bogus claims, advetorials, false hope of the actual performance vs. lab results under ideal conditions. The consumer must definitely do his/her homework.
Rennlist community is blessed because we have members that truly care about caring for their vehicles, some more ocd than others, and it has also nurtured an environment for sponsors like JC and me to be valued. In return, we share our wealth of knowledge that has been earned through years of hard work and dedication...long before there was YouTube or even the internet...I believe a beeper was my main source of contact when I started out back in the 90s.
So, please give respect and credit where it’s due, and if you don’t agree, share you thoughts in a productive and constructive manner.
i can tell you, as I get older, turning 40 this year, and owning new cars, my values have changed, and so has my business model. We now focus on providing clients with the highest value and the best use of our time and their money. We don’t give our clients false hopes of a swirl-free finish, or a coating that takes the place of washing your car, etc.
we listen to the client and and offer solutions to their unique problems. What JC has pointed out in this thread is something that all of us detailers have known about for years. I cannot speak for him, but my interpretation was a PSA to make owners of these amazing cars aware of what to look for.
Once you are aware, it is totally your call, as to how far to go. This car is something you have worked hard for to attain, and no one should sell you on anything. But it’s good to know what imperfections a new car can consistently come with, and what can be done to make that problem go away, if in fact, it is a problem for you.
i hope this helps to hear it from another detailer’s point of...one that cares about the community, because it’s that very same community that made this one man show into a huge success and fulfilled my wildest dreams. I now have a beautiful family with three children that are around These amazing cars from the time they were little babies.
Lord knows how much they’re absorbing snd will hopefully be caring for your children’s Porsche with the same passion their father has.
we have a wonderful community here ladies and gentlemen...let’s make sure it’s a place where we truly benefit one another
11-12-2017, 09:43 PM
#69
Rennlist Member
So a forum sponsor who is in the detailing business makes his legitimate observations to that crowd who is into detailing and he gets roasted for no reason??
If one does not see a value in these services do not do them. Very simple.
Rennlist has become the land of everyone has an opinion on everything and always having to be right or the last word. If having no interest in a thread why even bother to look or comment? No self control?
I think some people here like to argue just for the sake of doing so.
If one does not see a value in these services do not do them. Very simple.
Rennlist has become the land of everyone has an opinion on everything and always having to be right or the last word. If having no interest in a thread why even bother to look or comment? No self control?
I think some people here like to argue just for the sake of doing so.
11-12-2017, 09:46 PM
#70
I remember the days when it was a lot simpler and cheaper. $600 front end clear bra. Done. Somehow overnight in this youtube world, it's become $5K+ out the door for paint correction, full wrap, blah blah blah.
Everybody's got a hand out. pass.
Everybody's got a hand out. pass.
11-13-2017, 02:13 AM
#71
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times change...that $600 full front clear bra installation you speak of was at best a precut that was 1/3 of the hood, small area of fenders behind headlights, a bumper installation with edges and seams everywhere, and that’s just the installation. Let’s not even talk about the film which had extreme orange peep, was yellow, would turn cloudy over time, and once you scratched or swirled it, forget about it healing itself. It WAS the nightmare installation that haunts many owners today.
times change, technology improves, and value goes up. You’re not getting that same $600 install for 3-4x today...you’re getting technology, aesthetics, durability, and much more than you ever got a few years ago.
the market decides what comes and goes...thank goodness for advancement...LED lights, pdk, centerlocks, pccb, etc. etc.
11-13-2017, 02:34 AM
#72
If I were to use the same logic, in 2006, a Porsche GT3 was $106k...regular 911 was around $80k...fast forward today and let me know what you think of Porsche wanting a “hand out”.
times change...that $600 full front clear bra installation you speak of was at best a precut that was 1/3 of the hood, small area of fenders behind headlights, a bumper installation with edges and seams everywhere, and that’s just the installation. Let’s not even talk about the film which had extreme orange peep, was yellow, would turn cloudy over time, and once you scratched or swirled it, forget about it healing itself. It WAS the nightmare installation that haunts many owners today.
times change, technology improves, and value goes up. You’re not getting that same $600 install for 3-4x today...you’re getting technology, aesthetics, durability, and much more than you ever got a few years ago.
the market decides what comes and goes...thank goodness for advancement...LED lights, pdk, centerlocks, pccb, etc. etc.
times change...that $600 full front clear bra installation you speak of was at best a precut that was 1/3 of the hood, small area of fenders behind headlights, a bumper installation with edges and seams everywhere, and that’s just the installation. Let’s not even talk about the film which had extreme orange peep, was yellow, would turn cloudy over time, and once you scratched or swirled it, forget about it healing itself. It WAS the nightmare installation that haunts many owners today.
times change, technology improves, and value goes up. You’re not getting that same $600 install for 3-4x today...you’re getting technology, aesthetics, durability, and much more than you ever got a few years ago.
the market decides what comes and goes...thank goodness for advancement...LED lights, pdk, centerlocks, pccb, etc. etc.
+1
11-13-2017, 03:25 AM
#74
Race Director
Originally Posted by StudGarden
Thank goodness for centerlocks? What is their major advantage?
Oh look, there’s a rabbit, go chase it!
pity that great vendors who are providing free information are being treated like this.
11-13-2017, 09:31 AM
#75
Three Wheelin'
Yes the vendor advertises. But he is not wrong. If you look at my post from August when my car was delivered, you can see me complaining about exactly the same horrible gripes with the paint and I had to take it to a detailer too. So maybe cut him some slack ?