CAlexio

Dear GT3/RS/GT2 forum friends, today I was asked a serious question, from a contact who is researching different segments of the sports car market before embarking on a new project. This contact is highly experienced, with participation in many previous vehicles to their credit.

They are trying to understand and target a group of car-lovers who generally fit into the following market criteria:

-A gearhead who has considered, or has already attended track days with their car... (not the starbucks/miami beach poser who wants to glitter while they glide past at 20mph.)
-Someone who has spent $200k on a car like the GT3.. but would consider stretching to $300 or even $400k for something which truly plucked at their fantasy strings. Even if this meant selling a few cars to stretch for this.. what car would make you say "it's worth it to me to really stretch my budget for something so awesome that did x & y"

The question is.. what sports car concept would truly tug at those fantasy strings?

For full disclosure, I'm asking because I'm doing some market research for this entity. I'm only saying this to let you know that every post on here will be read carefully, and every word considered and appreciated. In other words, as you'd be the target market, what you say, matters.

Lastly, i will put forth a few really basic ideas to stimulate the creative juices.
-Think of a segment which is underserved-what makes you think "I would actually buy something which had ________certain qualities."
-Consider cars like the BACMono, or the Ultima GTR for inspiration.. what would you have done differently with those?
-What what you give up in your GT3, in exchange for more in another area.
-Would you give away comfort for more aero?
-Would you care to lose the passenger seat in exchange for central driving position?
-Would you want a roof to drive it on roads, or would you not care and want to wear a helmet?
-What kind of engine would make you excited to buy such a car?

This is early research.. go nuts, but think critically. With as saturated a sports car market as there is today.. there are always segments available for companies willing to take risks and make something really unique. This group has the resources and the experience to do something truly cool. Let me know what that product looks like to you.

Thank you by the way, truly.. I always appreciate this group of people (until we meet in person haha).

Jimmy-D

^ I would like a Singer or along a similar philosophy.

Lightweight( target 2500 lbs), and a little smaller like the older Porsches

tqevo

8 or more cylinders... NA, high revs, high hp
6spd manual
mid engine
rwd
as light as possible <3000 lbs
5 lug 18's or 19's
real steering
big aero
1 passenger seat
roof.. no verts/open tops
no deviated stitching option
doesn't look like a kit car

hfm

My 2015 GT3 after options went out the door for about $165k. I find that it's limits are higher than I can ever use on the road. I only found my limits, not the cars, at a track at about 130 mph. Therefore, I don't plan to buy a more expensive car because it will be superior in performance when I can't even come close to reaching the limits of the GT3 on roads, highways or canyons. So, when asked what would cause me to pay twice as much as what I paid for my GT3, it's not likely going to be because there is a car that has greater performance than the GT3.

In response:

-Think of a segment which is underserved-what makes you think "I would actually buy something which had ________certain qualities." Design. The car would have to be beautiful.

-Consider cars like the BACMono, or the Ultima GTR for inspiration.. what would you have done differently with those? Nothing. Those are not "cars" I would likely purchase.

-What what you give up in your GT3, in exchange for more in another area. PDK. I'd consider a GT3 manual in addition to but, not in replacement of my current GT3.

-Would you give away comfort for more aero? No. I would not buy a RS. It's too much of a look at me car because of the wing. I don't need more aero because 99% of the time I'm not even driving 8/10ths in the GT3. I appreciate what comfort exists in the GT3.

-Would you care to lose the passenger seat in exchange for central driving position? No. I need my wife in the car. If I wanted a Mclaren F1, I would have bought a F1.

-Would you want a roof to drive it on roads, or would you not care and want to wear a helmet? Yes I want a roof. I own a helmet, I used it once that day on the track. I starting to think I'm not your demographic based upon these questions.

-What kind of engine would make you excited to buy such a car? The kind in my GT3 or, in a 458 Speciale. Non turbo, high compression, high rev flat 6, V8 or V12.

In my opinion having bought a GT3, there would have to be something very special about a $300k or $400k car for me to consider buying it when I can buy a GT3 for $200k or less. And, I can't think of anyone making 500 hp, normally aspirated manual transmission cars these days other than Porsche.

Yeah, Jimmy might be right, a Singer maybe? It would be nice to see other manufacturers move off the turbo / dual clutch thing that is happening. I would give up 600 hp for the right engine, transmission and styling in a heartbeat because, you can't use that power anywhere except on the track. If the manufacturer is looking to build a pure track car, feel free to ignore my opinion entirely. Or, possibly, the manufacturer should consider building a car more like a GT3 instead of an Ariel Atom if they want people willing to shell out as much as $300k/$400k generally reserved for Ferrari, Porsche and Mclarens only. There maybe people with that kind of wealth willing to burn the cash on "toys" or track day weapons but, I'm just not one of them.

Dan (happily just passed 23k on his GT3)

evilfij

I don’t know that I would spend $300-400k on it, but my biggest complaint is everything is very bloated now. Lots of fancy stuff and tech which adds weight and things to break. Things I like: RUF CTR, Lotus, Morgan Aero. Lightweight is the number one priority. Simple is number 2. Of course you can’t buy any of these in the US anymore. Aluminium chassis (or CF chassis), cf body, reasonably available lightweight drivetrain is a winning combination. Then just leave everything else off. Lots of stuff like this is available in the UK and Europe, but none of it is legal here for street use. I suppose you could bring them in as kit cars like caterham, but I don’t know.

So lotus chassis, custom body, V10 from the Audi/lambo with a manual transaxle. Basically a Hennessy venom but with the Audi engine. Or an ultralight 964/993 with a GT3 991.2 engine (so basically a non-turbo RUF). Or a custom chassis and body with a GT350 drivetrain. A rethink of the cobra. Or an aero 8 with the M5 V10 and 6 speed. All of these would be killer and would justify a $300-400k price tag. But frankly for a fraction of that just bring me a lotus Exige cup 380 in the US.

The singer is great, but so much extra design and stuff which has to add expoenentially to the cost. Give me the car as body in white with a recaro pole position and save the woven leather and plaid inserts and machined fuel cap.

bronson7

Very simple. A 911 body all carbon fibre and let Robert Linton take care of the rest.

Just in time

I would only spend $300-400 on an exciting fresh take car from a marque with a long history. Lightweight, powerful and sleek. Say a P car with a new day silhouette of a 911 with a flat 8. Read this as something that pushes an existing envelope. I would not consider that price point in a car from an entirely new brand.

008

Lightweight, simple engineering, high revving NA motor, bomb proof durability, mid engine.

Like the above, think Lotus light, donor engine from a 458 or even an E92 M3, or ideally a bespoke engine, capable of many hours of flogging at the track without breaking and long cycle part service intervals.

Design wise it would also have to be striking to classically beautiful to command that price point. That said if you could combine all of that with a sales and service network servicing the greatest concentrations of wealth I think people would flock to it.

Jimmy-D

Honestly- If Lotus upped their game and could make a more reliable car with an over-the-top NA engine- they may be the answer

Bring back an updated Espirit- take it back to the future

Einmalig

Now that Geely (Volvo) has purchased 51% of Lotus, a new Esprit is a real possibility in a few years. I owned a few Esprit Turbos back in the late 80's and early 90's and they were beautiful cars with great handling and a supple ride. By comparison, my 997 GT3 would crash over bumps and feel unsettled on anything less than a perfect road. There isn't much the Brits can teach the Germans when it comes to cars, but ride and handling was a Lotus hallmark thanks to having some of the worlds finest chassis engineers.

Bruce P

A 7/8 scale Carrera Gt with a NA high revving flat crank V8 with a seven speed sequential gearbox. Weight less than 2800 lbs wet. Horsepower at least 550. Cockpit adjustable sway bars. Italian styling with German engineering. Sort of a cross between a Ferrari 360 Modena and a CGT stepped up a bit. No turbo and no nannies.

C.J. Ichiban

I'm building a V12 with a stick shift and loud pipes. with lots of carbon.

signes

Let me echo the one theme that everybody will have at is near the top of your list: lightweight. Purity of purpose that flows from design to performance. Classic styling devoid of the busy-ness of today’s cars, elimination of all the bull**** “features” that don’t enhance the driving experience (PLEASE, I’d be happy with roll up or Lexan windows), the feel of solidity that you have from a well-engineered chassis... two seats, high revving atmospheric 8-12 cylinders. A car that doesn’t give up its best till your learn it and earn it. I’d also echo at that price point the need for heritage / history of the marque or the people behind it, preferably motorsport.

nuvolari612

I wouldn't do it.

Speciale 675LT Performante SV 720s 488 and others around 400k.

Tracking a car and not finding a proper mechanic spares is too much brain damage - add risk to a 200 mph 8-9000 revs hoping is was put together correctly.

Love being on track also like the idea someone built the car with my melon being spared seen some nasty accidents fires etc and the driver walks away.

Look at the Ford GT - has serious issues ask an owner who tells the truth and Ford started with their own basic engine - bespoke builders it's going to cost 500 - 700k to make what's available. It's one thing for Ford to keep things a secret and tell customers they will get it right but a small factory ...

Took Viper ACR to the track last week added stage 2 guessing around 800 hp - 160k can not think of a better weapon for double the price and the Mac 650s and 488 waving me by thought the same.

It's one thing for people to talk what they want it's another to get them to stroke a check.

NateOZ

Very tough project to embark on - McLaren has been putting a lot of money into a market research project. They've reached out to me several times asking me to participate in things from think tanks to multi hour one on one interviews. They actually pay participants for their time and I assume have vetted them on some basis.

Lots of people love to give an opinion, but how many would write the check?