New GT3/GT2RS Leads With/Without ADM
02-02-2019, 10:27 AM
#3781
Rennlist Member
02-02-2019, 10:40 AM
#3782
SJW, a Carin' kinda guy
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Funny enough, as far as oversupply there are a lot more PDK for sale than MT and the prices are lower for PDK. Not by a ton, but noticeably lower. Also, the whole flipper thing I don’t think ever really happened with GT3 (unlike 911R and 991.1 GT3RS and GT2RS) because there was never a point where you could make real money on one after paying tax, and especially not trading back to the dealer. I mean maybe if you speced it right, didn’t drive it, and got it at sticker you could clear a few bucks, but I got (and get) the sense the demand is from people who actually wanted one (manual did it for me and brought a lot of new people into the demand pool as did the touring). Seems to me most the ones for sale are from people who just get the latest and greatest GT car when it comes out, VIP cars, and dealer spec cars (I think a lot of the dealer spec cars are because MRSP dealers did not want to either upset customers or leave cash on the table).
And the relatively low ADM on the 991.2 GT3RS compared to what the 991.1 GT3RS got up to tells me things will stay in check. At least I hope so. We will see what the speedster does and whether there are ADMs on the new GT4 when it comes out. I mean I am sure there will be some initially, but I don’t think they last, or if they do, they end up pretty low.
And the relatively low ADM on the 991.2 GT3RS compared to what the 991.1 GT3RS got up to tells me things will stay in check. At least I hope so. We will see what the speedster does and whether there are ADMs on the new GT4 when it comes out. I mean I am sure there will be some initially, but I don’t think they last, or if they do, they end up pretty low.
02-02-2019, 10:46 AM
#3783
Realized I put this in the wrong thread as I have been doing these now and again.
There are 196 GT3/GT3RS/GT2 on the National preowned porsche website. There is an almost no option car ($146k sticker) for $149k and then they go $163k and up. 21 are PTS GT3 and one PTS GT2 (at $620k lol). Five tourings ($25k-$40k ADM, none PTS) and 54 6MT GT3 (13 PTS, most big ADM and high 190s and up, but two at low ADM, but higher MSRP — lumber21’s olive car at $4k over MSRP with almost 9k miles and the rossa corsa car at PNH at $6k over with 1700 miles —both have been for sale for a while). Some of these PTS cars have been for sale since I started doing this 6-9 months ago. Then again, back when I worked for Land Rover, the GM would have a Defender 90 sitting on the rocks out front or in the showroom to drive traffic so maybe they don’t actually want to sell them that much. One last point, the earliest GT3 cars are now 18 months old so that is undoubtly driving down prices for the early PDK cars (some of which are under MSRP).
Over MSRP askings on the PTS manual cars (I am too tired to do PDK too).
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There are 196 GT3/GT3RS/GT2 on the National preowned porsche website. There is an almost no option car ($146k sticker) for $149k and then they go $163k and up. 21 are PTS GT3 and one PTS GT2 (at $620k lol). Five tourings ($25k-$40k ADM, none PTS) and 54 6MT GT3 (13 PTS, most big ADM and high 190s and up, but two at low ADM, but higher MSRP — lumber21’s olive car at $4k over MSRP with almost 9k miles and the rossa corsa car at PNH at $6k over with 1700 miles —both have been for sale for a while). Some of these PTS cars have been for sale since I started doing this 6-9 months ago. Then again, back when I worked for Land Rover, the GM would have a Defender 90 sitting on the rocks out front or in the showroom to drive traffic so maybe they don’t actually want to sell them that much. One last point, the earliest GT3 cars are now 18 months old so that is undoubtly driving down prices for the early PDK cars (some of which are under MSRP).
Over MSRP askings on the PTS manual cars (I am too tired to do PDK too).
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02-02-2019, 12:35 PM
#3787
Race Car
Fair enough. We will agree to disagree. I think most that are selling with delivery miles or low were exactly intending on flipping. You don't just buy a car and turn around to sell it because you like doing that. These folks all had the plan to flip. The difference is the market didn't work for them this time around and to your point, yes they are not getting that money back. Kind of back fired this time around.
02-02-2019, 12:47 PM
#3788
Fair enough. We will agree to disagree. I think most that are selling with delivery miles or low were exactly intending on flipping. You don't just buy a car and turn around to sell it because you like doing that. These folks all had the plan to flip. The difference is the market didn't work for them this time around and to your point, yes they are not getting that money back. Kind of back fired this time around.
If people factored in all the tangible and intangible costs (like TIME), the GT cars depreciate just fine!
02-02-2019, 02:14 PM
#3789
Lots of people tried, but likely very few were successful at any meaningful profit.
Correct. Production too high, and still going, with too many people at the front end buying them for the wrong reason (profit over driving enjoyment).
Also correct. And don't forget about capital gains tax on any profit you squeak out, which I think is safe to assume is considerable given the typical flipper tax bracket. Although I imagine paying capital gains tax on your GT flip is very often overlooked -- quite unintentionally, of course. 
I think most that are selling with delivery miles or low were exactly intending on flipping. You don't just buy a car and turn around to sell it because you like doing that. These folks all had the plan to flip. The difference is the market didn't work for them this time around and to your point, yes they are not getting that money back. Kind of back fired this time around.
Correct. Also, people are notoriously obtuse when it comes to calculating real loss/gain. Factor in sales tax, registration, PPF (which almost everyone does), side markers and other stuff (exhaust, bolster protector), and I would guess that only a handful of people flipped for a profit. You would need: no ADM, low MSRP build, no sales tax, registration in a cheap state, no PPF, no miles. What a great formula for owning a GT car; a bunch of no!
If people factored in all the tangible and intangible costs (like TIME), the GT cars depreciate just fine!
If people factored in all the tangible and intangible costs (like TIME), the GT cars depreciate just fine!
02-02-2019, 08:59 PM
#3790
TX is 35sh. With seem to be the treand on the Autotrader. Some dealers saying the don’t change any ADM, but conveniently non of them have any cars and wen I ask them about the Autotrader listing they all say sold. I have been looking to get GT3RS for about the year now and have seen prices on the web with was always above MSRP. Wen I called few dealers asking about ordering one the pretty much laughed at me. The trend is if you not a Porsche owner we are just not all that intrested in your business. Last week I called dealer about stunning black GT3RS was on Autotrader for 217k. The trick was is what was not listed is 25k ADM. Ones I found out about it I stepped back. Dealer told me make offer and I did few days later for the MSRP. By then the car was gone. But.. The dealer offered me buildable alication for 20K ADM. The deposit for the car went out next day.
Moral of this story: I don’t agree with what dealers are doing, but wen you buy car from Barret-Jackson ther is 10% buyers premium. So the way I see it 20k is my buyer premium to order the car I want the way I want it.
Im not a collector or a waxser. I’m track guy who’s switched platforms. To be honest with you all I have never driven any Porsches, but ran with plenty of them at Daytona, Sebring and Homested. Love everything see and read about the new GT3RS. I’m sure I will see some of you at the track.
02-02-2019, 09:15 PM
#3791
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Introducing you said this as I just spend this morning doing just that, calling few dealers about adm. In Florida it’s 35k-50k Special dealers in Miami.
TX is 35sh. With seem to be the treand on the Autotrader. Some dealers saying the don’t change any ADM, but conveniently non of them have any cars and wen I ask them about the Autotrader listing they all say sold. I have been looking to get GT3RS for about the year now and have seen prices on the web with was always above MSRP. Wen I called few dealers asking about ordering one the pretty much laughed at me. The trend is if you not a Porsche owner we are just not all that intrested in your business. Last week I called dealer about stunning black GT3RS was on Autotrader for 217k. The trick was is what was not listed is 25k ADM. Ones I found out about it I stepped back. Dealer told me make offer and I did few days later for the MSRP. By then the car was gone. But.. The dealer offered me buildable alication for 20K ADM. The deposit for the car went out next day.
Moral of this story: I don’t agree with what dealers are doing, but wen you buy car from Barret-Jackson ther is 10% buyers premium. So the way I see it 20k is my buyer premium to order the car I want the way I want it.
Im not a collector or a waxser. I’m track guy who’s switched platforms. To be honest with you all I have never driven any Porsches, but ran with plenty of them at Daytona, Sebring and Homested. Love everything see and read about the new GT3RS. I’m sure I will see some of you at the track.
02-03-2019, 12:05 AM
#3792
02-03-2019, 09:36 AM
#3793
I’m partially red/green color blind. But your gt3 pic still looks amazing. What color is it?
02-03-2019, 09:46 AM
#3794
