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Now up just over 3k miles in GT3.2 including a couple of track days.
As to the 991R, this is something very special its drives imv very much like a 964RS. Its so much more than the sum of its parts. I have driven a MT GT3, and whist its a great car it drives nothing like the 991R.....The R has a lightness and " up on its heels" feeling that the GT3 just does not have.
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Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban
The R is an immensely more enjoyable car vs the .1 GT3 or RS due to the wildness/ looseness of the car. You actually have to watch the back end because it will slide a lot. The RS and GT3 are too sanitized, too much grip, no drama unless you are doing 140 on the track. The R has drama at 40 and enough power to drift it from a dead stop.
The 997 4.0RS, The 911R, and the Boxster Spyder are the 3 best non-CGT’s/ non-918’s they have made in the last 15 years.
So,
1) spec pccb for lightness and
2) go close to 0 toe on the rear?
Only thing missing will be LWFW.
How is your base AMG GT? Still depreciating like a ship anchor? Does it overheat at the track?
When will you buy a "REAL CAR" like PORSCHE?
I heard those AMG GT-R have had problems once again. Oh well what else is new with AMG other than old samo-samo, depreciation and defects. Oh well they can always improve as they say.
Drive safe,
GT3RS-Fan1
You should seek help for your obsession against the GTR...as a fellow rennlister I start to worry about you!!
So,
1) spec pccb for lightness and
2) go close to 0 toe on the rear?
Only thing missing will be LWFW.
yes, if you ignore all of the opinions of people who actually own the car, you can assume they will be more or less identical. Toe and lighter brakes are all it takes...
I actually miss mine when I'm away for too long!
The more you drive it in all conditions, the better it gets. (5500 miles now).
The R is an immensely more enjoyable car vs the .1 GT3 or RS due to the wildness/ looseness of the car. You actually have to watch the back end because it will slide a lot. The RS and GT3 are too sanitized, too much grip, no drama unless you are doing 140 on the track. The R has drama at 40 and enough power to drift it from a dead stop.
The 997 4.0RS, The 911R, and the Boxster Spyder are the 3 best non-CGT €™s/ non-918 €™s they have made in the last 15 years.
which Spyder 987 or 981?
Do you think a 4.0 997RS is way more enjoyable than a 997.2 RS?
Now up just over 3k miles in GT3.2 including a couple of track days.
As to the 991R, this is something very special its drives imv very much like a 964RS. Its so much more than the sum of its parts. I have driven a MT GT3, and whist its a great car it drives nothing like the 991R.....The R has a lightness and " up on its heels" feeling that the GT3 just does not have.
Feel very lucky to own a 991R.....Every road trip feels an event......
Let’s stop and think of what could actually make the 911R feel that different at public road speeds than a .2 GT3 manual. Alignment differences? Slight suspension spring rate / damping differences? (are the struts different part numbers)? Different RWS / FWS software tuning? Traction control / torque vectoring tuning?
Long story short, at most it has to be mostly software tuning differences. And if these were universally accepted as better, why would they not roll those tunings into the newer .2 GT3 touring car?
The simplest explanation is usually the right one. To me, the simplest explanation here is that there is a lot of hype and placebo going on with the R relative to a Touring based on it’s uniqueness. That’s OK if that’s what makes someone think it feels unique and special.
Let’s stop and think of what could actually make the 911R feel that different at public road speeds than a .2 GT3 manual. Alignment differences? Slight suspension spring rate / damping differences? (are the struts different part numbers)? Different RWS / FWS software tuning? Traction control / torque vectoring tuning?
Long story short, at most it has to be mostly software tuning differences. And if these were universally accepted as better, why would they not roll those tunings into the newer .2 GT3 touring car?
The simplest explanation is usually the right one. To me, the simplest explanation here is that there is a lot of hype and placebo going on with the R relative to a Touring based on it’s uniqueness. That’s OK if that’s what makes someone think it feels unique and special.
Perception is reality!
Placebo effect, is a ridiculously powerful thing for our brains. I see patients in trials who believe their implanted device is working and swear their life has changed when in actuality, they are in the sham portion of a study.. device is off and just set to show LED’s flashing! depending on how one is presented with info, will dramatically alter their perception of reality. you can absolutely cure people with a sugar pill, as long as they believe it. This is based in part on our need for consistency, our brain looks for any reason it can to strengthen our perception. As an aside, this is why positive self talk in front of a mirror works so well.. you see yourself say something, your brain starts to believe it.. amazing sports and business training.
I’m not for or against any car, and it’s fantastic that owners of a certain model believe it can have quasi-magical handling or unique properties. Porsche has leveraged this for years selling the same car in 30 different iterations and making us believe they were all completely different ones.. G.E.N.I.O.U.S!!!!
But as Mech33 correctly says above, perception is reality. I’ll add that the want for our decisions (and our $$$ spend) to be validated, leads us to attribute qualities which.. a double blind or sham controlled study could easily debunk.
. (Ps: I’m not advocating driving your car vs another with a blindfold on )
Awesome - we've moved on to patronising R owners, who apparently can't tell what their car is really like, as their brains have been addled by a sugar pill from Stuttgart.
Some of the guys on this thread have owned multiple dozens of 911s. I think they know what's reality and what's not.
Maybe a part of the reason I love the R so much is that its the only car that I havent felt the need to tweak anything in the running gear at ALL (I did a muffler bypass but that's subjective). Nearly every other car I've ever had I've always changed things. Suspension pieces, settings, tuning, full exhaust, tires etc etc. This is the first car that short of literally dropping the muffler for the most part...I couldn't imagine making it any better. The new GT3 will be what a new GT3 is. Buttoned up tight, badass, super fast and super grippy. What I doubt it will have is the same character as the R does. All those little changes that some people think are no big deal...but if you were to ever go and try to replicate it could you ever? Unless you're best friends with AP or one of the family, I don't think you'll ever get the tuning on the RWS or the engine mapping, the SWFW on a 991 is no small thing to integrate...long past the days of the 996 and 997 ease. Can you have the steering programmed on the new Gt3 to be as light and playful but still responsive as the R? Can you have the brake servos changed or altered to have it give the old school feedback with the ceramics that the R's have? That's leaving aside the body panels totally aside for now (which I think is such a cool aesthetic for the hood and roof. It's a whole package that no matter how much twisting and turning, the only way you could replicate is by actually buying an R. Now, I'm SUPER pumped to check out some of my friend's touring cars when they come, and I'll have an open mind about it without a doubt, because if anything I'm thrilled others will get to have as much fun with their gt3 as I do with the R. But there is no doubt in my mind what-so-ever, it's completely one of a kind...or one of 991
Maybe a part of the reason I love the R so much is that its the only car that I havent felt the need to tweak anything in the running gear at ALL (I did a muffler bypass but that's subjective). Nearly every other car I've ever had I've always changed things. Suspension pieces, settings, tuning, full exhaust, tires etc etc. This is the first car that short of literally dropping the muffler for the most part...I couldn't imagine making it any better. The new GT3 will be what a new GT3 is. Buttoned up tight, badass, super fast and super grippy. What I doubt it will have is the same character as the R does. All those little changes that some people think are no big deal...but if you were to ever go and try to replicate it could you ever? Unless you're best friends with AP or one of the family, I don't think you'll ever get the tuning on the RWS or the engine mapping, the SWFW on a 991 is no small thing to integrate...long past the days of the 996 and 997 ease. Can you have the steering programmed on the new Gt3 to be as light and playful but still responsive as the R? Can you have the brake servos changed or altered to have it give the old school feedback with the ceramics that the R's have? That's leaving aside the body panels totally aside for now (which I think is such a cool aesthetic for the hood and roof. It's a whole package that no matter how much twisting and turning, the only way you could replicate is by actually buying an R. Now, I'm SUPER pumped to check out some of my friend's touring cars when they come, and I'll have an open mind about it without a doubt, because if anything I'm thrilled others will get to have as much fun with their gt3 as I do with the R. But there is no doubt in my mind what-so-ever, it's completely one of a kind...or one of 991
For me the big point over the MT GT3.2 is the SMFW, it makes such a difference in the way the engine spins up...
I have been driving 911s since the late 70s, the 991 R is right up there with the very best from a fun interaction point.....
It is not the fastest, not the most exotic, not the most expensive I have ever owned, but it is the most complete car for me in all of the cars I have ever owned
Just as AP described it is like your favorite jeans, which in my case my favorite car.
Awesome - we've moved on to patronising R owners, who apparently can't tell what their car is really like, as their brains have been addled by a sugar pill from Stuttgart.
Some of the guys on this thread have owned multiple dozens of 911s. I think they know what's reality and what's not.
Yes my apology, I didn't intend that at all, definitely did not intend to be patronizing. I was just thinking more in terms of how avid gearheads get about brands and cars in general, and how brands maximize this subjectivity to their advantage. I was responding to mech33's placebo effect comment In very general terms..
10-19-2017, 08:15 AM
