Buying a GT2 RS: My Unfortunate Dealings with Porsche of the Main Line
10-04-2017, 02:56 AM
#46
Yeah there will be a Case Study.
The whole dealership model is so outdated. PCNA needs to do something about this fast. Tesla's model of selling their own cars has technically destroyed the traditional model of car buying. There was a time when middle men were needed to secure allocations etc - at a time when there was tons of inefficiency in the marketplace.
Today - you take money, get car at MSRP etc (just like walking to apple store to buy a phone) not way over with some complicated deals where the buyer will always lose etc.
Stupid dealer greed will destroy the brand. PCNA needs to delist the dealership from their network if crap like this reported.
The whole dealership model is so outdated. PCNA needs to do something about this fast. Tesla's model of selling their own cars has technically destroyed the traditional model of car buying. There was a time when middle men were needed to secure allocations etc - at a time when there was tons of inefficiency in the marketplace.
Today - you take money, get car at MSRP etc (just like walking to apple store to buy a phone) not way over with some complicated deals where the buyer will always lose etc.
Stupid dealer greed will destroy the brand. PCNA needs to delist the dealership from their network if crap like this reported.
10-04-2017, 03:15 AM
#47
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by ****
I have been a loyal customer of Porsche of the Main Line for 4 years, since I purchased my 2014 Cayenne Turbo S. Before you consider doing business with this Porsche dealer, I recommend that you read my story.
I am a 33 year old USAF veteran. I have had a $1000 deposit with them for a new GT2 RS for 2.5 years. I also traded in a 458 Ferrari 13 months ago (at below market price) and left $102,000 with them to put towards my GT2 RS. Additionally, I have also spec'd and ordered a 991.2 GT3 from them.
I made it absolutely clear that I wanted the car at MSRP when I put my deposit on it over 30 months ago. They told me that Porsche of the Main Line "only sell new cars for MSRP." They also informed me that I was first on the list.
I got the call today from my salesman congratulating me on being first on the list, as long as I was willing to pay $250,000 over MSRP.
I am speechless. Why did I sell them my 458 below market and let them hold onto $102,000 of my money for over a year?
Here is a quote from Robert DiStanislao, the owner of Porsche of the Main Line:
"Having been "tempted to take the quick dime instead of the smart nickel," DiStanislao says automakers are becoming more pragmatic about catering to their best customers."
Unbelievable.
I am a 33 year old USAF veteran. I have had a $1000 deposit with them for a new GT2 RS for 2.5 years. I also traded in a 458 Ferrari 13 months ago (at below market price) and left $102,000 with them to put towards my GT2 RS. Additionally, I have also spec'd and ordered a 991.2 GT3 from them.
I made it absolutely clear that I wanted the car at MSRP when I put my deposit on it over 30 months ago. They told me that Porsche of the Main Line "only sell new cars for MSRP." They also informed me that I was first on the list.
I got the call today from my salesman congratulating me on being first on the list, as long as I was willing to pay $250,000 over MSRP.
I am speechless. Why did I sell them my 458 below market and let them hold onto $102,000 of my money for over a year?
Here is a quote from Robert DiStanislao, the owner of Porsche of the Main Line:
"Having been "tempted to take the quick dime instead of the smart nickel," DiStanislao says automakers are becoming more pragmatic about catering to their best customers."
Unbelievable.
10-04-2017, 08:53 AM
#48
Race Car
Until PCNA does something to curb this, it's going to continue. No matter how much people on RL hate it there's absolutely nothing stopping dealers from selling over MSRP. Clearly very, very few care about customer relationships. I've bought dozens of cars from the Nashville dealer - we only have one - and they still charged me an ADM on both the GT4 and the RS.
10-04-2017, 09:15 AM
#49
Drifting
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Toronto - Exuma - Montego Bay
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Some of you gents have a long buying history, yet they still f*k you.. Why would you all not leave the brand? If they pulled that garbage here, I would never look at Porsche again.
Let your $ talk and don't bend.. they will suffer in the end.
Let your $ talk and don't bend.. they will suffer in the end.
10-04-2017, 09:24 AM
#50
This is a complex topic due to state-by-state (in the US) regulations on auto sales / dealerships. I, too, like the Tesla model of direct sales (though I’ve never bought a Tesla) in principle.
There just isn’t a really good justification anymore for auto dealerships as required middleman for new car sales, IMO. Auto manufacturers can and should open their own stores and service centers as Tesla is doing and as Apple and others have done in other industries. Auto dealerships should still exist in a different role: non-brand-specific used car sales and service (think CarMax for mass market, and boutique dealerships for highline sales).
But it will take major regulartory reform is many states to make this possible.
Like Apple, Porsche/VW/Audi can do a better job promoting its brand by running its own “dealerships” and selling direct to its customers. Customers shouldn’t have to be loyal to a dealership, but rather to a brand. The store location one buys their car at should be a matter of convenience, nothing more, and customers shouldn’t have to build a relationship with the owner or manager of a particular store at an arbitrary location. Imagine if to buy a certain hot toy at Christmas you had to build a relationship with the owner of a particular Target store to get an allocation.
There just isn’t a really good justification anymore for auto dealerships as required middleman for new car sales, IMO. Auto manufacturers can and should open their own stores and service centers as Tesla is doing and as Apple and others have done in other industries. Auto dealerships should still exist in a different role: non-brand-specific used car sales and service (think CarMax for mass market, and boutique dealerships for highline sales).
But it will take major regulartory reform is many states to make this possible.
Like Apple, Porsche/VW/Audi can do a better job promoting its brand by running its own “dealerships” and selling direct to its customers. Customers shouldn’t have to be loyal to a dealership, but rather to a brand. The store location one buys their car at should be a matter of convenience, nothing more, and customers shouldn’t have to build a relationship with the owner or manager of a particular store at an arbitrary location. Imagine if to buy a certain hot toy at Christmas you had to build a relationship with the owner of a particular Target store to get an allocation.
10-04-2017, 09:49 AM
#51
Race Car
- Basically trackable off the dealer's lot
- Excellent community of support/advice/parts
- Performance of a Porsche GT car
- Factory warranty in place (as a practical matter) regardless of track use
- High degree of dependability given the usage
- Excellent dual clutch automatic - I don't want to track stick shift
If another car company comes along with a substitute for that, I'm all ears.
I'm not offended by the ADM. I just see it as part of the deal to get what I want. Arguably Porsche underprices the cars.
10-04-2017, 09:55 AM
#52
Burning Brakes
I see both sides of the argument. One way to look at it is the free market is doing its job. It's correcting a pricing imbalance caused by limited supply addressing a large market. Either Porsche regulates the pricing of their cars through their dealer network, or these things will happen, no matter how unfortunate it is.
10-04-2017, 10:04 AM
#53
Drifting
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Toronto - Exuma - Montego Bay
Posts: 3,191
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Good question. For me there's nothing that does what Porsche does. I don't street drive my RS much at all. It's 99% a track car. I don't know of any other make that does the following:
- Basically trackable off the dealer's lot
- Excellent community of support/advice/parts
- Performance of a Porsche GT car
- Factory warranty in place (as a practical matter) regardless of track use
- High degree of dependability given the usage
- Excellent dual clutch automatic - I don't want to track stick shift
If another car company comes along with a substitute for that, I'm all ears.
I'm not offended by the ADM. I just see it as part of the deal to get what I want. Arguably Porsche underprices the cars.
- Basically trackable off the dealer's lot
- Excellent community of support/advice/parts
- Performance of a Porsche GT car
- Factory warranty in place (as a practical matter) regardless of track use
- High degree of dependability given the usage
- Excellent dual clutch automatic - I don't want to track stick shift
If another car company comes along with a substitute for that, I'm all ears.
I'm not offended by the ADM. I just see it as part of the deal to get what I want. Arguably Porsche underprices the cars.
Now it makes sense.. US Dealers are enabled by their clients!
I'll stop the US stealership bashing..
10-04-2017, 10:06 AM
#54
Drifting
Dealers are supposed to know their market and customers it's the whole premise for being a dealer. Selling at MSRP or below and servicing the car for years to come in their market. The Porsche dealer owners that are far removed from the day to day sales sitting in an Ivory Tower or relaxing while their dealership cranks out numbers are pathetic - the owners who are on site a daily cog in their business do things right not only treat their customers but their employees better.
All a dealer has to do is force a buyer to sign a FROR. If the car owner wants to sell dealer gets first right or customer can sell thru the dealer where the dealer adds on a commission and it can be sold at any price. I know dealers who require licensing the car before the car leaves which means all taxes are paid for adding 7 - 10% to the sale so there are no games also know dealers who hold the title for one year so there are no games.
Dealers know their customers don't kid yourself someone is getting paid either above or under the table when they sell to a known flipper. I don't want to be part of this nonsense if someone else does that's their business but to state a dealer deserves above msrp when good local customers are waiting in line is what it is and for that not if but when there will be a price for those actions.
Selling a 100k car and under is one thing - selling a 350k GT2RS **** that quality of customer off and they don't return.
10-04-2017, 10:12 AM
#55
Rennlist Member
Until PCNA does something to curb this, it's going to continue. No matter how much people on RL hate it there's absolutely nothing stopping dealers from selling over MSRP. Clearly very, very few care about customer relationships. I've bought dozens of cars from the Nashville dealer - we only have one - and they still charged me an ADM on both the GT4 and the RS.
Until PCNA does something... you can do something too, dont pay it!!
10-04-2017, 10:20 AM
#56
Race Car
Originally Posted by manitou202
I get the free market argument, and that's fine if dealers want to play the free market game and risk damaging relationships with good customers. But then be upfront about charging an ADM and market price. Don't create lists for allocations and then tell customers when their time comes that they are going to charge an ADM. Or like in the situation with ****, hold onto $100k from a previous trade in, and then drop a massive ADM bomb. I'm assuming if they had told **** upfront that they were most likely going to charge a large ADM for the GT2RS, then he wouldn't have traded-in his Ferrari and would have taken his business else where.
10-04-2017, 10:48 AM
#57
Similar thing happened to me (to a much lesser extent) with Porsche of Fairfield. I had a deposit down for a 991.2 GT3 at MSRP. When I got the call for an allocation these were the terms ...
My math says all of this is equivalent to $20K+ over MSRP without blatantly saying so. Needless to say, I passed and got my deposit back. Also, this isn't the dealer where I got my GT4. I now have a deposit there but am a little further down the list (2019 allocation). In my experience they don't play these kind of games. I'm just going to be loyal and patient.
- The dealer wanted my GT4 as a trade and they wanted to undercut the value by approx. $10K.
- If I took away my GT4 (if I keep it or sell it privately) they were going to evaluate other people on the GT3 list and see what they bring to the table.
- They are selling all GT3s at MSRP but require $12K+ of dealership extras (clear film, tire & wheel insurance, etc.).
10-04-2017, 10:55 AM
#58
Racer
10-04-2017, 10:58 AM
#59
No need to report. Someone will read this in Atlanta tomorrow morning. Not the first time, not the last -honest people who rever the brand and act in good faith will see rules being changed for the dealer's benefit in a flash. The dealers are PCNA clients, and we are clients of the dealers.
They want to lease as many Macan Ss and Cs as possible, and as long dealers continue to do so, all is good.
They want to lease as many Macan Ss and Cs as possible, and as long dealers continue to do so, all is good.
so basically Porsche doesn’t care. Disappointing. Well, I have my GT3 coming at msrp. If they try to pull any funny business, I’ll move on. Too many other great cars out there to put up with this nonsense. If I really want a Porsche, I’ll buy an older model. Have no problem not having the latest and greatest.
10-04-2017, 11:01 AM
#60
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by Lapis
This is a complex topic due to state-by-state (in the US) regulations on auto sales / dealerships. I, too, like the Tesla model of direct sales (though IÂ’ve never bought a Tesla) in principle.
There just isnÂ’t a really good justification anymore for auto dealerships as required middleman for new car sales, IMO. Auto manufacturers can and should open their own stores and service centers as Tesla is doing and as Apple and others have done in other industries. Auto dealerships should still exist in a different role: non-brand-specific used car sales and service (think CarMax for mass market, and boutique dealerships for highline sales).
But it will take major regulartory reform is many states to make this possible.
Like Apple, Porsche/VW/Audi can do a better job promoting its brand by running its own “dealerships” and selling direct to its customers. Customers shouldn’t have to be loyal to a dealership, but rather to a brand. The store location one buys their car at should be a matter of convenience, nothing more, and customers shouldn’t have to build a relationship with the owner or manager of a particular store at an arbitrary location. Imagine if to buy a certain hot toy at Christmas you had to build a relationship with the owner of a particular Target store to get an allocation.
There just isnÂ’t a really good justification anymore for auto dealerships as required middleman for new car sales, IMO. Auto manufacturers can and should open their own stores and service centers as Tesla is doing and as Apple and others have done in other industries. Auto dealerships should still exist in a different role: non-brand-specific used car sales and service (think CarMax for mass market, and boutique dealerships for highline sales).
But it will take major regulartory reform is many states to make this possible.
Like Apple, Porsche/VW/Audi can do a better job promoting its brand by running its own “dealerships” and selling direct to its customers. Customers shouldn’t have to be loyal to a dealership, but rather to a brand. The store location one buys their car at should be a matter of convenience, nothing more, and customers shouldn’t have to build a relationship with the owner or manager of a particular store at an arbitrary location. Imagine if to buy a certain hot toy at Christmas you had to build a relationship with the owner of a particular Target store to get an allocation.