Confessions of A Car Flipper
09-24-2017, 03:20 PM
#61
Three Wheelin'
Porsche makes a profit by building world class vehicles by their own efforts, not at the expense of someone else.
A doctor makes a profit by examining, diagnosing and treating others based upon their experience and education. They're not providing a service at the expense of another and, yes, they're making money off themselves.
A lawyer makes a profit by fact gathering, legal analysis and, litigation based upon their experience and education. They're not providing a service at the expense of another and, yes, they're making money off themselves.
A business that makes a profit at the expense of another not based upon its own efforts, creation or skills is parasitic.
The one thing I found useful about "your" video was finding out Porsche was willing to yank dealership franchise licenses for your conduct. That makes me think they may do the same for some dealerships but, regrettably, Porsche likely won't pull the trigger on bad dealerships that perform well.
Dan (sees you having a place in the 997 and older market)
09-24-2017, 04:46 PM
#62
No.
Porsche makes a profit by building world class vehicles by their own efforts, not at the expense of someone else.
A doctor makes a profit by examining, diagnosing and treating others based upon their experience and education. They're not providing a service at the expense of another and, yes, they're making money off themselves.
A lawyer makes a profit by fact gathering, legal analysis and, litigation based upon their experience and education. They're not providing a service at the expense of another and, yes, they're making money off themselves.
A business that makes a profit at the expense of another not based upon its own efforts, creation or skills is parasitic.
The one thing I found useful about "your" video was finding out Porsche was willing to yank dealership franchise licenses for your conduct. That makes me think they may do the same for some dealerships but, regrettably, Porsche likely won't pull the trigger on bad dealerships that perform well.
Dan (sees you having a place in the 997 and older market)
Porsche makes a profit by building world class vehicles by their own efforts, not at the expense of someone else.
A doctor makes a profit by examining, diagnosing and treating others based upon their experience and education. They're not providing a service at the expense of another and, yes, they're making money off themselves.
A lawyer makes a profit by fact gathering, legal analysis and, litigation based upon their experience and education. They're not providing a service at the expense of another and, yes, they're making money off themselves.
A business that makes a profit at the expense of another not based upon its own efforts, creation or skills is parasitic.
The one thing I found useful about "your" video was finding out Porsche was willing to yank dealership franchise licenses for your conduct. That makes me think they may do the same for some dealerships but, regrettably, Porsche likely won't pull the trigger on bad dealerships that perform well.
Dan (sees you having a place in the 997 and older market)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-sum_game
P.S. Have you ever met a trial lawyer?
09-24-2017, 04:52 PM
#63
09-24-2017, 05:10 PM
#64
Rennlist Member
Trust me. ANYONE that puts more than 30 minutes of effort into a search can find one. I’m not a big new pcar buyer and live in the worst market for flippers but 2 calls early on got me a slot. Sure not a first slot. Or a pts slot. But a build committed at msrp.
Seriously its it’s not hard.
Patience is a virtue. The flippers prey on impatience.
Seriously its it’s not hard.
Patience is a virtue. The flippers prey on impatience.
Wants to trade in his 35K mile 997.2RS.
Even with crappy trade in, no GT3 at MSRP. Never mind RS.
Everyone is a GT enthusiast now that they appreciate in value and why wouldn’t they be?
+2
09-24-2017, 05:16 PM
#65
Banned
So every voluntaryexchange is a POSITIVE sum game -- it creates value. By the same logic, if any force is applied to prevent a voluntary exchange from taking place, then value is destroyed. This includes any regulations (threats of force) that prevent Porsche from offering its cars and allocations freely to any willing bidder (buyer) with a checkbook.
09-24-2017, 06:04 PM
#66
AutoX
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The debate on flipping is reasonable to discuss here. But, to malign a man that you do not know and have not dealt with personally is crap. I am not in the market for a Gt3rs. I did however buy my C2 from switchcars and the experience was excellent. The car was as advertised and Doug was not slimy, repugnant, etc as he has been maligned in this thread. Stating opinions about flipping and dealer mark-ups is reasonable as discussion points. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But to cast aspersions on someone's character as has been done in this thread is more morally bankrupt imho than what many of you are claiming regarding Doug's livelihood.
Last edited by 2out2sea; 09-24-2017 at 06:12 PM. Reason: Grammar Correction
09-24-2017, 06:14 PM
#67
Race Director
Originally Posted by 2out2sea
The debate on flipping is reasonable to discuss here. But, to malign a man that you do not know and have not dealt with personally is crap. I am not in the market for a Gt3rs. I did however buy my C2 from switchcars and the experience was excellent. The car was as advertised and Doug was not slimy, repugnant, etc as he has been maligned in this thread. Stating opinions about flipping and dealer mark-ups is reasonable as discussion points. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But to cast aspersions on someone's character as has been done in this thread is more morally bankrupt imho than what many of you are claiming regarding dougs livelihood.
If I was in the pre-owned car business, the last thing I'd do is make a video about flipping cars in the past by putting deposits down at numerous Porsche dealerships knowing how unfavorable a topic it is. Why would I do that and cast a dark cloud over myself and my business?
If someone wants to sell new GT cars, go apply and open your own Porsche dealership. One could understand why the manufacturer, dealers, and those enthusiasts getting the shaft might not be a fan of guys doing things like this.
"I was the car flipper manufacturers hate"
09-24-2017, 06:27 PM
#68
My understanding is that being on the list means there are a few tiers of people above you in line. VIPs, regulars, friends and family of the dealer principal. Then people higher up on the list. Any of those can be a flipper, either at time of allocation or 6+ months down the road.
If we got rid of the egregious flippers would the problems go away? Would more cars be available to those regular Joe's on the list? My thinking is no, we'll still see prices above MSRP for used GT cars, even years after delivery.
In my book that is a Market. I want a GT car because it's fun and deprecation is low. It's low because Porsche sells below market, or demand is higher than supply, whatever. Those who make money between MSRP and market are market makers. Whether dealers or individuals, both are doing it.
The game is to get one closer to MSRP so the depreciation stays low and I can trade it in on the next GT car at close to MSRP.
Porsche keeps making money selling GT cars at a premium and demand stays up because we don't take a 50% hit on depreciation before the next one arrives.
Who can fix what and what will it change?
09-24-2017, 06:42 PM
#69
I believe this conversation is pertaining to the stockpiling of NEW car allocations only. From what I understand, Switchcars has good reviews when it comes to used car purchases. I would consider them if I was in the market for a preowned GT3/RS.
09-24-2017, 09:13 PM
#70
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Socialism is regulated capitalism, too -- you can own your toothbrush. You can also stand in line to buy it for the legal msrp ("affordable people's price") of $1 at a legal state store that never has it in stock, or you can get it that same day on the black market for $2 from the brother of the Polit-bureau member that regulates toothbrush sales.
Same with Porsches in "regulated capitalist" America.
Same with Porsches in "regulated capitalist" America.
but u are not describing true socialism.
however i don’t like to discuss these sensitive topics on line. in person over root beer we will have a great cognitive discourse
socialism doesn’t work only bc we fawk it up. the ideology is brilliant more so than democracy. but we should get some good food and drink k b4
we continue. and i will try to
eat healthier when we dine together. no donuts.
it’s hard to not have typo when u are on the phone
in the computer
in RL
on text
and conducting a mtg
but most smart guys can figure out my typo so
i no longer correct
them. i hope it mootish will not be the future language and screw up
the kids with poor spelling. but it is full
if wisdom when u truly understand it
09-24-2017, 09:38 PM
#71
Rennlist Member
09-24-2017, 09:40 PM
#72
If you’re not intelligent enough to find an allocation you shouldn’t be trying to buy this car.
A 20 year old with $4k in his pocket wound up with 15 or so allocations. I’ve never bought a Porsche in my life and I have an allocation next year at MSRP from an out of state dealer. It’s not that hard like Spyerx said
A 20 year old with $4k in his pocket wound up with 15 or so allocations. I’ve never bought a Porsche in my life and I have an allocation next year at MSRP from an out of state dealer. It’s not that hard like Spyerx said
09-24-2017, 09:45 PM
#73
ur are describing reality
but u are not describing true socialism.
however i don’t like to discuss these sensitive topics on line. in person over root beer we will have a great cognitive discourse
socialism doesn’t work only bc we fawk it up. the ideology is brilliant more so than democracy. but we should get some good food and drink k b4
we continue. and i will try to
eat healthier when we dine together. no donuts.
it’s hard to not have typo when u are on the phone
in the computer
in RL
on text
and conducting a mtg
but most smart guys can figure out my typo so
i no longer correct
them. i hope it mootish will not be the future language and screw up
the kids with poor spelling. but it is full
if wisdom when u truly understand it
but u are not describing true socialism.
however i don’t like to discuss these sensitive topics on line. in person over root beer we will have a great cognitive discourse
socialism doesn’t work only bc we fawk it up. the ideology is brilliant more so than democracy. but we should get some good food and drink k b4
we continue. and i will try to
eat healthier when we dine together. no donuts.
it’s hard to not have typo when u are on the phone
in the computer
in RL
on text
and conducting a mtg
but most smart guys can figure out my typo so
i no longer correct
them. i hope it mootish will not be the future language and screw up
the kids with poor spelling. but it is full
if wisdom when u truly understand it
wow, I feel young
I actually understood the "mooty" writting
09-24-2017, 09:49 PM
#74
Originally Posted by hf1
Every voluntary exchange creates a POSITIVE increase in utility (subjective value) for both involved parties, otherwise it wouldn't have happened. The buyer values a GT3 in his garage more than the $170k sitting in his bank account. The seller values $170k in his bank account more than the GT3 sitting in his garage/store. The voluntary exchange (sale) allows both parties to increase their utility (subjective value) by exchanging goods which they subjectively value less for goods which they subjectively value more. Unless fraud is involved, it's logically impossible for anyone to take advantage of (exploit) anyone else through a voluntary exchange.
So every voluntaryexchange is a POSITIVE sum game -- it creates value. By the same logic, if any force is applied to prevent a voluntary exchange from taking place, then value is destroyed. This includes any regulations (threats of force) that prevent Porsche from offering its cars and allocations freely to any willing bidder (buyer) with a checkbook.
So every voluntaryexchange is a POSITIVE sum game -- it creates value. By the same logic, if any force is applied to prevent a voluntary exchange from taking place, then value is destroyed. This includes any regulations (threats of force) that prevent Porsche from offering its cars and allocations freely to any willing bidder (buyer) with a checkbook.
I personally would never pay a dime over MSRP. But that doesn't mean I fault a guy for trying to make a buck, and if there's an idiot willing to pay, more power to them.
09-24-2017, 11:41 PM
#75
Rennlist Member
Isn't the discussion two fold here? Don't think anyone is beating up on Switch, but it's owner made a YouTube video about his car flipping days. Sooooo ..... a discussion about flipping "might" be open game??
If I was in the pre-owned car business, the last thing I'd do is make a video about flipping cars in the past by putting deposits down at numerous Porsche dealerships knowing how unfavorable a topic it is. Why would I do that and cast a dark cloud over myself and my business?
If someone wants to sell new GT cars, go apply and open your own Porsche dealership. One could understand why the manufacturer, dealers, and those enthusiasts getting the shaft might not be a fan of guys doing things like this.
"I was the car flipper manufacturers hate"
Attachment 1254894
Attachment 1254906
If I was in the pre-owned car business, the last thing I'd do is make a video about flipping cars in the past by putting deposits down at numerous Porsche dealerships knowing how unfavorable a topic it is. Why would I do that and cast a dark cloud over myself and my business?
If someone wants to sell new GT cars, go apply and open your own Porsche dealership. One could understand why the manufacturer, dealers, and those enthusiasts getting the shaft might not be a fan of guys doing things like this.
"I was the car flipper manufacturers hate"
Attachment 1254894
Attachment 1254906
Problem is not him.
Problem is with the dealers that agreed with him to sell the allocation to him in first place.
it takes 2 to tango.