View Poll Results: Which seats for GT3 with Touring Package?
Sofas (either 18-way or 4-way)
122
49.19%
Buckets (either LWBs or folding buckets ROW)
126
50.81%
Voters: 248. You may not vote on this poll
Which seats for GT3 Touring? Sofas or LWBs?
11-23-2017, 10:08 AM
#46
So you are suggesting that the sole use of LWBS will cause back or knee problems? Sure, anything can happen in life, but doubt people will live by "I shouldn't order LWBS because I might injure myself at a later time in an unrelated event"... Plenty of people drive GT3/RS with LWBS and never had any issues or developed chronic problems because of them. I daily drove my 997.2 GT3 (20,000 miles a year) with LWBS and I would never order a 911 without LWBS, regardless of driving style, application, or purpose. Maybe in my late 60's I might consider other seats...
11-23-2017, 10:08 AM
#47
Drifting
i respect everything you post immensely, but I personally disagree with the above. The buckets on my RS are fantastic for the track, so glad to have them. But my god they are brutal for daily driving, running errands, taking the wife on dates. Bc my upcoming GT3 is going to be a street focused driver I ordered it with sofas. However, everyone has different opinions and likes, it’s great we have options! So important to test the seats before ordering.
11-23-2017, 10:09 AM
#48
Instructor
Answer: Then they will anyway replace their GT3 Touring (regardless of the seats, since knee problems don't go well with a manual transmission car!) and get a 911 turbo (S) with PDK or even a Panamera instead!
11-23-2017, 10:55 AM
#49
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
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For me, with long legs and at 6'5" 215lb it's a no-brainer... while I like the buckets and they definitely have the cool factor down in GT cars... I could never live with them. For my personal fit, it's 18 ways every day of the week.
11-23-2017, 11:05 AM
#50
Rennlist Member
To you maybe, but not to a lot of people. Some of us think the LWBs are more comfortable and much more supportive. I bought my Spyder fully expecting to rip the LWBs out. Then I actually drove in them for hours. Now I’d never spec a Porsche with out them. Not everyone has the same opinion as you about comfort.
And those of you ripping them, have you actually spent a few hours in them actually driving a car?
And those of you ripping them, have you actually spent a few hours in them actually driving a car?
Yep, spent 3 hours in the Malibu canyons last week in a 991.1 RS, have them in my 911R and have had them (buckets) in a couple GT3's I've had and then have the racing buckets in the Singer. I've also spend hours upon hours in a track cars in pole positions. The race seats are WAY better, the cushioning is better and they have lumbar support which kicks ***. The problem is that the regular buckets in all the street cars are a bit too wide, have a seriously terrible angle for long term comfort (I'll admit if they fixed this, and from the factory and gave couple degrees back...a portion of my mindset would change) and don't have enough padding to let you really sink in IMHO. Granted, I also didn't think my Rover Sport SVR had enough padding in the seat, so I realize I'm a bit fussy at this point. I'm not saying they are terrible, but they aren't really doing much either.
Oh, will admit the seats on older Porsches are definitely uncomfortable after way less time than the new any model's buckets...so there is that. But the new 14 and 18 ways are way more comfortable than those ever were.
11-23-2017, 12:40 PM
#51
This is the most overly debated and discussed topic on Rennlist. The LWBs are mostly a visual option. The look great, have tons of cool carbon, and are slightly lighter. As an actual track seat, they're not that amazing (much better aftermarket options).
As far as those that claim the LWBs are more comfortable than 4 way or 18 way seats, that's Rennlist exuberance and not logic. Seem nearly impossible that anyone could sincerely believe that. My first 991.1 GT3 had 18 ways, super comfortable, adjustable bolsters which offered additional support when needed, and the crazy ability for myself and my passenger to get in and out as needed! Ordered my second 991.1 GT3, got the cool buckets, they looked great, but rendered the car nearly unusable on a day to day basis. Back pain, severe inconvenience getting in and out, and any passenger other than a automotive fan boy having a "WTF??" look on their face. 3 months after taking delivery of the car I sold it specifically because of the LWBs.
My 991.2 is ordered with 18 way seats with the seat back in leather.
As far as those that claim the LWBs are more comfortable than 4 way or 18 way seats, that's Rennlist exuberance and not logic. Seem nearly impossible that anyone could sincerely believe that. My first 991.1 GT3 had 18 ways, super comfortable, adjustable bolsters which offered additional support when needed, and the crazy ability for myself and my passenger to get in and out as needed! Ordered my second 991.1 GT3, got the cool buckets, they looked great, but rendered the car nearly unusable on a day to day basis. Back pain, severe inconvenience getting in and out, and any passenger other than a automotive fan boy having a "WTF??" look on their face. 3 months after taking delivery of the car I sold it specifically because of the LWBs.
My 991.2 is ordered with 18 way seats with the seat back in leather.
11-23-2017, 12:50 PM
#52
Race Director
From a comfort standpoint I think they are equal to the sofas, But- If you are a bigger person I can see how the LWBs may not be an option
Now - since i find them equally comfortable the cool factor certainly goes to the LWBs. I also know that you will recoup your money from the LWBs at time of sale so one would not be pissing their money away.
What I find most interesting is you do not need seat warmers with LWBs.- I do not understand. Maybe the way they are built or the CF shell protects them-
Now - since i find them equally comfortable the cool factor certainly goes to the LWBs. I also know that you will recoup your money from the LWBs at time of sale so one would not be pissing their money away.
What I find most interesting is you do not need seat warmers with LWBs.- I do not understand. Maybe the way they are built or the CF shell protects them-
11-23-2017, 01:04 PM
#53
This proves again that anyone can read or interpret what they want to. My point had nothing to do with buckets causing any medical issues. People experience events in life beyond their control like back and knee issues that have nothing to do with any car.
11-23-2017, 01:16 PM
#54
Another dopey comment. The choice of seats makes no difference in this regard. I’ve had two discectomies (L4-L5 and L5-S1), surgery on both knees, broke both femurs and have a titanium rod running knee to hip in one, and I’ve had major surgery to repair a severely dislocated hip and torn labrum. And I prefer the LWBs. Go figure.
11-23-2017, 01:19 PM
#55
Burning Brakes
Have you spent much time in the 4 ways? I find them much more comfortable than the 18s.
You make a good point that some people are much more comfortable in the LWB over a sofa seat, but that is definitely the minority of people. If you took 100 random people off the street and had them sit in the LWB or the sofas for 2 two hours of driving, I bet 90% of them would say the sofas are more comfortable.
I also agree with your point (in general) that LWB add value to GT cars, however, that really applies to the true winged GT cars, like a GT3 or RS, for which you definitely add value to the car by ordering LWB.
I expect people to look differently at the GT3 touring cars, (and use them differently) compared to the standard GT3/RS, and I doubt you'll see the same price differential for LWB seats in a GT3 touring compared to an RS, 10 years from now.
You make a good point that some people are much more comfortable in the LWB over a sofa seat, but that is definitely the minority of people. If you took 100 random people off the street and had them sit in the LWB or the sofas for 2 two hours of driving, I bet 90% of them would say the sofas are more comfortable.
I also agree with your point (in general) that LWB add value to GT cars, however, that really applies to the true winged GT cars, like a GT3 or RS, for which you definitely add value to the car by ordering LWB.
I expect people to look differently at the GT3 touring cars, (and use them differently) compared to the standard GT3/RS, and I doubt you'll see the same price differential for LWB seats in a GT3 touring compared to an RS, 10 years from now.
the best seat for track work, I would install a Nascar type seat with Neck and head protection, as I did in my 993 GT2 Race Car.
11-23-2017, 01:23 PM
#56
This is the most overly debated and discussed topic on Rennlist. The LWBs are mostly a visual option. The look great, have tons of cool carbon, and are slightly lighter. As an actual track seat, they're not that amazing (much better aftermarket options).
As far as those that claim the LWBs are more comfortable than 4 way or 18 way seats, that's Rennlist exuberance and not logic.
As far as those that claim the LWBs are more comfortable than 4 way or 18 way seats, that's Rennlist exuberance and not logic.
Get whatever seats you prefer and I guess if making uninformed assumptions about other people’s motivations helps you justify your decision go for it.
Neither seat is better or right for everyone, nor is one more comfortable for everyone. And if you don’t have any actual seat time in them, your opinion on the subject is worthless, as was mine before I actually owned them.
11-23-2017, 01:33 PM
#57
Three Wheelin'
My take. Slightly different again.
LWB: VERY upright and light padding on the seat. More weight than usual goes through your sit bones because little is being taken by your back due to severely upright nature. After a couple or hours I get pain in the sit bones due to this plus the light padding. Same for other people that have tried them.
4-ways: Very comfortable, no pain, very versatile as they fold forward, and fully recline for service station naps.
18-ways: Appear to me to be like the 4-ways but with loads more adjustments. Funnily enough I could never get fully comfortable in these even though you would think I ought to be able to adjust them down to a 4-way spec. Always ended up getting pain in small of back. Also they have to be pretty heavy right? A lot of electric motors to go 18 ways in two seats!
Sports buckets: Finally got to try these recently over a good drive. Definitely more comfortable than the LWBs due to slightly more reclined back rest and thicker padding to seat. So didn’t get the sit bone problem. Added advantage of fold forward to access back area.
I’m 6’3†90kg. In conclusion 4 ways are very good. If you must get a bucket it’s critical to try them over extended drive first to find which suits. Anyone who says buckets are more comfortable is, um, just wrong. They’re more upright and have less padding. It’s not even subjective: that could never be more comfortable. It does sound like a badge of honour to claim they’re more comfortable possibly. What they actually mean is something like “I can sit in them for a few hours without back or bottom pain. “
LWB: VERY upright and light padding on the seat. More weight than usual goes through your sit bones because little is being taken by your back due to severely upright nature. After a couple or hours I get pain in the sit bones due to this plus the light padding. Same for other people that have tried them.
4-ways: Very comfortable, no pain, very versatile as they fold forward, and fully recline for service station naps.
18-ways: Appear to me to be like the 4-ways but with loads more adjustments. Funnily enough I could never get fully comfortable in these even though you would think I ought to be able to adjust them down to a 4-way spec. Always ended up getting pain in small of back. Also they have to be pretty heavy right? A lot of electric motors to go 18 ways in two seats!
Sports buckets: Finally got to try these recently over a good drive. Definitely more comfortable than the LWBs due to slightly more reclined back rest and thicker padding to seat. So didn’t get the sit bone problem. Added advantage of fold forward to access back area.
I’m 6’3†90kg. In conclusion 4 ways are very good. If you must get a bucket it’s critical to try them over extended drive first to find which suits. Anyone who says buckets are more comfortable is, um, just wrong. They’re more upright and have less padding. It’s not even subjective: that could never be more comfortable. It does sound like a badge of honour to claim they’re more comfortable possibly. What they actually mean is something like “I can sit in them for a few hours without back or bottom pain. “
11-23-2017, 03:29 PM
#59
Three Wheelin'
i respect everything you post immensely, but I personally disagree with the above. The buckets on my RS are fantastic for the track, so glad to have them. But my god they are brutal for daily driving, running errands, taking the wife on dates. Bc my upcoming GT3 is going to be a street focused driver I ordered it with sofas. However, everyone has different opinions and likes, it’s great we have options! So important to test the seats before ordering.
