Notices
991 GT3, GT3RS, GT2RS and 911R 2012-2019
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Center Lock Wheel Tool Suggestions Please

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 08-25-2017, 08:48 PM
  #16  
Tom Tweed
Addict
Rennlist
Lifetime Member

 
Tom Tweed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: La Jolla, CA
Posts: 749
Received 22 Likes on 13 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by robgts
If the question is "what should I bring to help the shop" I would just throw in a 1/2 to 3/4 socket adapter and this:

https://www.toolsource.com/split-bea...6.html?tsqtid=
A little cheaper at ToolTopia: http://www.tooltopia.com/search.aspx?find=C4D600F36H

And don't forget the grease, although you can just spread the leftover from the last application before re-setting the centerlock in a pinch: https://www.suncoastparts.com/product/04302000.html

If you're on the road and need to plug a tire, it's a lot easier to find the leak and plug it if you can jack the car up and spin it rather than driving forward and back a bit at a time. I carry an old 928 jack kit for that. You can find them on Ebay and/or a dismantler for < $100. Google Porsche 928 jack

You could definitely use one of SmokingGTS alignment tools to save your calipers and rotors from dings when putting the wheels on and off.

As far as the procedure, you can watch YouTube videos, but you need to read the manual starting on p. 203 if you're going to mess with mounting wheels yourself.










HTH,
TT

Last edited by Tom Tweed; 08-25-2017 at 09:30 PM. Reason: add images of manual
The following 2 users liked this post by Tom Tweed:
BigHeadDennis (06-25-2021), ER911S (04-19-2021)
Old 08-25-2017, 09:14 PM
  #17  
Tom Tweed
Addict
Rennlist
Lifetime Member

 
Tom Tweed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: La Jolla, CA
Posts: 749
Received 22 Likes on 13 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by disden
since we have so many experts here, I have a question as well.

Now that I am taking my RS to the track more frequently, how are you guys checking to ensure the wheels are tightened appropriately? Obviously with the lugs its easy, but these CLs are a pain. What is recommended? Hate to lose a wheel if it can be avoided. Thanks in advance, as the DEs pile up!
If the wheels have been mounted with the proper 443 ft. lbs. of torque and the important last step has been taken of insuring that the spring-loaded center safety locking bolt in the hub has extended flush with the center of the nut, there is no way for them to loosen subsequently. You can pry off your center caps and visually inspect that they are flush if you think this might have been overlooked. See step 16 on p. 206 of the manual posted above.

TT
Old 08-26-2017, 12:00 AM
  #18  
robgts
Instructor
 
robgts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: SoCal Newport
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by disden
since we have so many experts here, I have a question as well.

Now that I am taking my RS to the track more frequently, how are you guys checking to ensure the wheels are tightened appropriately? Obviously with the lugs its easy, but these CLs are a pain. What is recommended? Hate to lose a wheel if it can be avoided. Thanks in advance, as the DEs pile up!
I would not worry about losing a wheel. At approximately 500 ftlbs and the safety lock hub I can't see how you would lose a wheel. The only way would be to snap off the hub entirely. Race cars only tighten to about 300fp with an air gun impact wrench. Don't get hung up with all of the directions written by german lawyers "the car must be elevated, you must back off the nut approximately 20 degrees and re-tighten...." blah blah. If you really look at the physics involved with center locks, they are very safe. That's why all race cars (except nascar and other domestic series) use center locks. Where is the greatest force as a wheel rotates...you guessed it...as you move away from the center. The least centrifugal force force is in the center of the wheel. BUT what you trade off is lateral and torsion strength of the hub itself.

Bottom line...don't worry, Be happy and race "the wheels off"
Old 08-26-2017, 12:22 AM
  #19  
ezinternet
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
ezinternet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 326
Received 14 Likes on 11 Posts
Default

A list I put together for my RS ...

Tools:

(1) Porsche collapsible breaker bar - 997.361.161.00

(2) Torque wrench - Precision Instruments C4D600F - tooltopia
http://www.tooltopia.com/precision-i...s-c4d600f.aspx

(3) Discussion ==> https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...ue-wrench.html

(4) brake pedal holder - http://www.tooldiscounter.com/ItemDi...ookup=LIS21520

(5) Grease - https://www.suncoastparts.com/product/04302000.html

(6) Ed's (SmokinGTS) Delrin centering tool
Old 08-27-2017, 08:23 AM
  #20  
disden
Drifting
 
disden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,444
Received 956 Likes on 427 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by robgts
I would not worry about losing a wheel. At approximately 500 ftlbs and the safety lock hub I can't see how you would lose a wheel. The only way would be to snap off the hub entirely. Race cars only tighten to about 300fp with an air gun impact wrench. Don't get hung up with all of the directions written by german lawyers "the car must be elevated, you must back off the nut approximately 20 degrees and re-tighten...." blah blah. If you really look at the physics involved with center locks, they are very safe. That's why all race cars (except nascar and other domestic series) use center locks. Where is the greatest force as a wheel rotates...you guessed it...as you move away from the center. The least centrifugal force force is in the center of the wheel. BUT what you trade off is lateral and torsion strength of the hub itself.

Bottom line...don't worry, Be happy and race "the wheels off"
Thanks for the info. At the track last weekend a car lost a wheel in front of me. Started me thinking about fact that I never check if wheels are tight as did cars with conventional lugs. Makes sense.
Old 05-16-2018, 03:19 PM
  #21  
Wild Weasel
Drifting
 
Wild Weasel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2,027
Received 294 Likes on 168 Posts
Default

I did mine for the first time on Monday night, swapping my wheels from left to right to prepare for my next track weekend.

I'd read at least once or twice the opinions about pulling up on the breaker bar or torque wrench rather than pushing down to avoid stress on the suspension.

I did that for the front wheels. After doing that, it became pretty obvious that if I stuck to that procedure I wouldn't be able to get out of bed the next day and if I made it a regular habit then I'd be on the path to permanent back injury.

I did the back ones by pushing down on the bars.

Firstly, it's worth mentioning that the manual says absolutely nothing about this and the pictures show the bar near vertical with the "push" going either forward or back depending on loosening or tightening. I might try that next time but I have a feeling there won't be enough friction between my shoes and the ground to make that work.

Thinking further about the forces involved (and maybe a little to justify my decision regarding self-preservation) I've decided that it doesn't really make much difference no matter how you slice it. You're not pulling down the suspension when you push down on the bar. You're applying torque to the center no matter which way you do it. It's a turning force, not a straight force in any direction. When pulling up or pushing down I didn't get the impression I was putting much stress on the suspension one way or the other.

If someone has some good reason to have a strong opinion on this, I'd love to hear it. In the meantime, I'm satisfied that I am comfortable enough with this procedure to do it again and again going forward.

And I still think the whole bloody system is idiotic for a track car.

I was ridiculously cautious with the pieces to ensure they didn't get any dirt on them as getting grit into the paste and then grinding it into the system seems like a terrible idea. Just one more thing you don't need to worry about with normal reliable lug nuts or bolts.

Last edited by Wild Weasel; 05-16-2018 at 03:49 PM.
Old 05-16-2018, 03:36 PM
  #22  
robgts
Instructor
 
robgts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: SoCal Newport
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Hahah! Boy the lawyers have you guys by the *****!! I have been going to the track on center locks for three years and with zero issues. I torque to 450ftlbs. I re-grease about every four or five changes. Don’t stress about the “procedure”. It’s physics. Just think about it. Relax. Your wheels won’t fall off hahah!
Old 05-16-2018, 08:58 PM
  #23  
astolfor
Instructor
 
astolfor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Porsche Norwell = unscrupulous
Posts: 158
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by montoya
Once you use one you will never use a huge leverage bar again. Here's what I have:

https://store.snapon.com/Geared-Head...t-P634899.aspx
Is this what you are talking about?

https://store.snapon.com/Geared-Head...--P634900.aspx

your link is not working for me.
TIA
Old 05-16-2018, 09:03 PM
  #24  
mikex25
 
mikex25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Northern California
Posts: 395
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes on 9 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by astolfor
Is this what you are talking about?

https://store.snapon.com/Geared-Head...--P634900.aspx

your link is not working for me.
TIA
i use the central tools one, they make the snap on torque multiplier


Old 05-16-2018, 09:28 PM
  #25  
Mech33
Nordschleife Master
 
Mech33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,344
Received 606 Likes on 371 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Wild Weasel
I did mine for the first time on Monday night, swapping my wheels from left to right to prepare for my next track weekend.

I'd read at least once or twice the opinions about pulling up on the breaker bar or torque wrench rather than pushing down to avoid stress on the suspension.

I did that for the front wheels. After doing that, it became pretty obvious that if I stuck to that procedure I wouldn't be able to get out of bed the next day and if I made it a regular habit then I'd be on the path to permanent back injury.

I did the back ones by pushing down on the bars.

Firstly, it's worth mentioning that the manual says absolutely nothing about this and the pictures show the bar near vertical with the "push" going either forward or back depending on loosening or tightening. I might try that next time but I have a feeling there won't be enough friction between my shoes and the ground to make that work.

Thinking further about the forces involved (and maybe a little to justify my decision regarding self-preservation) I've decided that it doesn't really make much difference no matter how you slice it. You're not pulling down the suspension when you push down on the bar. You're applying torque to the center no matter which way you do it. It's a turning force, not a straight force in any direction. When pulling up or pushing down I didn't get the impression I was putting much stress on the suspension one way or the other.

If someone has some good reason to have a strong opinion on this, I'd love to hear it. In the meantime, I'm satisfied that I am comfortable enough with this procedure to do it again and again going forward.

And I still think the whole bloody system is idiotic for a track car.

I was ridiculously cautious with the pieces to ensure they didn't get any dirt on them as getting grit into the paste and then grinding it into the system seems like a terrible idea. Just one more thing you don't need to worry about with normal reliable lug nuts or bolts.
Youre putting a torque AND a straight force on the wheel when using the bar.

I don’t think the forced in question here matter much. The loads on the road / track are massive in comparison.
Old 05-16-2018, 09:30 PM
  #26  
mikex25
 
mikex25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Northern California
Posts: 395
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes on 9 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Mech33


Youre putting a torque AND a straight force on the wheel when using the bar.

I don’t think the forced in question here matter much. The loads on the road / track are massive in comparison.
i think it’s because the suspension is designed to take the load going up towards the body and not down and away from it.
Old 05-16-2018, 10:06 PM
  #27  
montoya
Rennlist Member
 
montoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,553
Received 297 Likes on 174 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by astolfor
Is this what you are talking about?

https://store.snapon.com/Geared-Head...--P634900.aspx

your link is not working for me.
TIA
Yes

Originally Posted by mikex25


i use the central tools one, they make the snap on torque multiplier


Looks the same, but what do I know?

The snap on is a 4X multiplier, I think you can get 5X with Armstrong. Just remember to divide the torque values by 4 or whatever multiplier you get.

There is a loss of precision through the gearing in the multiplier, like 5 or 10%, so I overtorque slightly to compensate- but I don’t think it’s necessary.

Also FYI use a wood block for the reaction bar to avoid leaving divots in your garage floor or in the track asphalt.
Old 08-21-2018, 09:47 AM
  #28  
st600r
1st Gear
 
st600r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Center lock failure

Rest easy, ITS not the center lock torqueing that's going to kill you, ITS the wheel HUB failure. My friends 991 at Mid Ohio this weekend CRACKED all the spokes but one on his center locks. Evidently the Porsche wheels are only good for street use if you VALUE your life.
Old 08-21-2018, 09:59 AM
  #29  
reidry
Three Wheelin'
 
reidry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Cocoa, FL
Posts: 1,633
Received 11 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by st600r
Rest easy, ITS not the center lock torqueing that's going to kill you, ITS the wheel HUB failure. My friends 991 at Mid Ohio this weekend CRACKED all the spokes but one on his center locks. Evidently the Porsche wheels are only good for street use if you VALUE your life.
How many miles on the wheels, how many of those were track miles? Aluminum does not have an infinite fatigue life.

Ryan
Old 08-21-2018, 12:05 PM
  #30  
GrantG
Addict
Rennlist Member

 
GrantG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Denver
Posts: 17,758
Received 4,719 Likes on 2,690 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by st600r
Rest easy, ITS not the center lock torqueing that's going to kill you, ITS the wheel HUB failure. My friends 991 at Mid Ohio this weekend CRACKED all the spokes but one on his center locks. Evidently the Porsche wheels are only good for street use if you VALUE your life.
Which model 991 and which wheels? Would be interested if GT3 forged wheels (occasionally bent, but haven't seen a catastrophic failure posted).


Quick Reply: Center Lock Wheel Tool Suggestions Please



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 11:12 AM.