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Awesome...that's a lot of information in a very small space...just need to grok all the nuances of what it's showing you.
I'd say yes.
In fact... At the risk of cluttering the display that makes me wonder about a third color (which I think you already have the hardware for if I recall from the video that covered start up). I would imagine that once you have some data in the bag you could show previous best for all regions of the track. Say:
Red (for potential) overlapped by orange (or blue or something...to show previous best grip exploited at this point) overlapped by green (to show current exploit). So just add the middle color "layer" to show where I've been doing better previously... In other words, on my best performance at this point on the track I'd see green and maybe some red if there's more potential grip; while if I'm doing less well this lap at this location I'd see green, some orange and maybe red if there's potential I haven't ever used at this spot. [afterthought: hmm, this might need options like show me either best ever at this spot or show me this spot on my best lap ever or so far in this session...again correlating to what predictive timers do perhaps; best ever at the precise spot might be beyond reach in the same way as theoretical best lap pasted together from short sector times].
If you did something like that you'd almost have something in the spirit of predictive lap timers only set up to tell me better/worse grip exploit at the given point on the track.
Mark, if you're ever at the Ridge with Turn 2 (see your in Oly) you're welcome to try my Apex DDC. And your comments about straight-line guidance with the Apex DDC is exactly what we've discussed as well. We should have our order in a few more weeks!
@Jamie: thanks for sharing your experience with the DDC this past Thursday. I think a day when we were running well below full tilt ferrying the kids around the track meant I could get a good feel for the device...certainly armed and dangerous for next time I think
More broadly I hope OP is OK with me adding some comments here now that I have received my unit and had a chance to play with it a bit.
Unboxing... The unit is nicely presented in a clear case with foam padding.
Perhaps the one surprise to me was that there was in effect zero documentation provided. The unit I got did not power up until I plugged in the USB cable -- I left it for a couple of hours and after that it came alive, no problem.
Pairing with my iPhone was simple and quickly accomplished without any issues.
I watched all the videos on the Apex site (https://www.apextrackcoach.com/tutorials/). Highly recommended although I have to say my initial concern about lack of paperwork melted more or less immediately. This device is extremely simple to set up and get into service. Not quite walk-up-and-use perhaps but darned close...technophobes, fear not!
I placed the device on more or less the centerline of the car nearly as far forward on the dash as the glass. This allowed it to stay in my peripheral vision most of the time and allowed my HD2 camera to capture it. BTW, I read there was some concern about the LEDs getting lost on some camera recordings. I can personally confirm that's not an issue with the VBOX HD2 camera. I tried various brightness settings and all recorded fine; there's no weird beat frequency with PWMs or anything like that.
Oh, pro-tip: don't look right at the LEDs on full brightness, your retina will thank you...sunlight will not wash this display out!
On Jamie's advice I powered down the DDC and restarted the phone app between each session. Well, except for once and then it bit me...no data t osave post-run. I did however notice that the "B" icon for the connection on the phone screen indicated no connection so I suspect if I'd have checked that I could have avoided this issue. Tapping on the "B" icon lets you reconnect to the device. That's a good thing; of course not finding the connection automatically is less good -- apparently you need to check this pre-session before hitting "START". The more operations and care and feeding the more chances for my memory to fail and something forgotten could end up biting me.
As above, on this day we were running maybe 6 tenths or less because we were giving rides (for a great cause that you can read about here under events->drive-a-thon). For the purposes of DDC evaluation though this meant that I has enough brain bandwidth available to keep a pretty good eye on the LEDs (well except when I was looking deep into left handers! ).
It really is bright enough and the display simple enough that I think I can pick up information from it via peripheral vision as I drive and I _think_ I'll be able to do that when pushing the car a bit more as well. That's an experiment for a day sans passengers though.
The day I got to try it was at The Ridge Motorsports Park (<- click here for a track map!). The unit detected that I was at that track and let me select it without hunting: nice! The start/finish indication is in the wrong spot on the ribbon charts produced though (more of this below).
My initial run I had the phone in the glove box. The session recording showed some small gaps in the ribbon diagrams right after turn 1, but I got otherwise complete lap data. Cross checking this with the lap times and G Sum channels from my VBOX HD2 there was good correlation in the timing data and the non-green areas on the ribbon diagrams corresponded with places on the track that I know the G Sum trace says I have more envelope to use.
For later runs I moved the phone to a RAM mount on the windshield but that actually led to worse results in terms of the completeness of the laps recorded.
Images to illustrate the problem:
Essentially what I think I see here is most of the lap then what the device says is a lap but is clearly the front straight. And there's a sequence of alternating long/short lap segments like that. In case it matters, it looks to me like the short lap segments start right around where the misplaced start/finish is...might be related.
So there's still useful information here. But obviously having properly complete laps would be better.
Issues with the GPS maybe?? Is it using the phone for GPS or is there a receiver in the unit?? My VBOX was perfectly fine in terms of GPS coverage and I did put the antenna for it in the same spot to see if it was just a bad location on the dash and it had no drop outs. If the DDC is vulching GPS from the phone perhaps a better external GPS would improve things?? Dunno, just thinking out loud.
To close for now, let me say something about real time versus tape review for the displayed info. I think it's possible to look at and grok the display as you drive. I am really not far enough ahead of the car to use it real time for corrections immediately except perhaps in long steady turns (tried this in T6 with some success edging the greens up to cover reds). In places on the track where there were transitory red-over-green indications I found I could register that and consider how to change approach on the next lap for that spot. Picking a corner or two at a time you can probably use the device in the one session to experiment with inputs and watch outcome.
Making sure that the camera in the car gets the LEDs though gave me even more info post session; particularly for the couple of spots on the track where you really have to be looking well left of center making it harder to see the display.
So I guess what I'm saying is that I liked the device for both real time and post session review.
Now, as with data/squigglies, the DDC effectively uncovers opportunity but it doesn't tell you how to exploit those. I hope that Apex will do more videos to describe the kinds of changes you might want to try in certain situations. I think there are also a number of cases, like straight line acceleration, where the movement of the green relative to the red isn't obvious and some explanation there might help...there are going to be places you simply can't exploit available grip (T2/3/4 right, left,right with a crest in the middle, as you change steering lock lateral G shifts through zero and there simply isn't a chance to use brakes or power to absorb the excess for something useful at that point...unless I'm missing something).
However, in the end I really like this box for giving you a simple way to see where you are leaving lap time on the table. I definitely need to experiment more but I think I'll be able to use it in longer sessions to be able to play with technique in interesting and [time] profitable ways.
To address the issue with the gap on the front straight we will be releasing a new version of the APEX Pro App soon. The GPS is located in the device itself, and since we've seen similar issues with Jamie's laps and yours, I'm confident that it's app related. We'll get it sorted out, as we have also updated the coordinates for The Ridge to reflect the actual S/F location. Thanks for the input, these posts are very helpful for us.
We are working on some video resources to help users take advantage of the device in real-time. Stay tuned in to our social media channels, @apexdigitaldrivingcoach, and our website: www.apextrackcoach.com as those resources come available. Jamie/Dundon Motorsports will have access to them before they're released publicly as well. The post session info is much more helpful when not experiencing these little bugs, so we'll make sure that'd handled first and foremost. We're teaching some classroom sessions and giving seminars local to our Birmingham, AL headquarters soon. I will make those presentations and resources available to our dealer network as well.
Another point you mentioned is the bluetooth connection and start session button. Down the road we plan to automate this process as much as possible with updates to the app. The app will be able to prompt calibration of the device, prompt track selection (it does those currently), and then start the session automatically (even if you do not hit the Start Session button). I know how busy I get before going on track, and based on user feedback I think this is the way to go. The simpler the better!
Again, thanks for the review Mark. Let me know if I can help you with anything!
Mark,
Thanks for adding to the conversation. Fortunately, I haven't had the issues that you are experiencing.
One question I have, though, isnt it better to leave the unit on the entire time rather than reboot after each session? Otherwise, the unit has to constantly re-learn and calibrate with each session vs. make small titrations/adjustments with each session throughout the day?
Mark,
Thanks for adding to the conversation. Fortunately, I haven't had the issues that you are experiencing.
And that's a good thing because it likely means the issues aren't fundamental to something that's tricky to change (meaning the hardware in the DDC box itself! ).
One question I have, though, isnt it better to leave the unit on the entire time rather than reboot after each session? Otherwise, the unit has to constantly re-learn and calibrate with each session vs. make small titrations/adjustments with each session throughout the day?
Yeah, I wondered that too, Joe. I'm a firmware guy myself so I can make some [semi-]educated guesses but for a definitive answer we probably have to ask Andrew/Apex.
FWIW: I'm not sure how much volatile and persistent memory the DDC has internally. For on/off state to matter between sessions that would imply that either raw data or more probably a data set model representation that's continually refined by incoming data is kept only in volatile memory...turn it off, you start from ground zero each time. However, there's some persistent store in there since it has it's own code internally and likely stores calibration data at least that we know survives power cycles...it's possible the performance oriented data can also survive.
My guess... Thinking about other power edge cases like turning off after a long day or the battery running down, I'd bet that the performance data set isn't persisted across power cycles. Provided that the DDC has reasonable amounts of memory though, I'd guess that your intuition is right and that the device can and does keep piling on more learning refinement if you leave it powered up between sessions on the same day/track. That said, since the DDC adapts to changes in conditions, track/weather/etc., the value of older inputs to the model reduces over time and tends to zero if the conditions change enough to remove the relevance of earlier data points. Said another way, if the conditions have changed since the last session, it's possible the data set from that last session doesn't buy you much. Meaning in the case of material changes in conditions between sessions there may be little difference between a full reset then giving it the first two laps to settle in, versus having left the box on between sessions anyway.
The wild card in all this is the phone. I'm sure comparatively that it has way more memory and store than the DDC itself. I'm not sure how much conversation there is between the two during a session; could be little or lots I suppose.
Again, I'm guessing...hope Andrew comes along to set us straight!
This is a topic of much discussion, and I plan to address it with a video soon!!!
Both methods have merit. Leaving the device on will result in it immediately returning to it's most recent baseline. So for a quick turnaround (15-30 minutes between sessions), stopping to drop off or pick up a passenger/instructor, or having another driver drive your car, I'd recommend leaving it on. That way the simulation model that has been created is kept, and the information is immediately relevant.
Between normal DE sessions (1 hr-1.5 hrs.) I turn the device off. Leaving it on will take battery life, and it's easy to use up all the battery in a single day if it's left on all day long(although it's pretty impressive how long it lasts!). Also, I've found that the simulation builds very quickly, especially if you're up to speed and doing a decent pace on your first or second flying lap. Again, for the purpose of having a coach or friend baseline your car, I'd leave it on, especially if the conditions are the same.
Now, for changing conditions, Mark made a good point. In my experience with the device the best way to get accurate information is to power it down and back up again if conditions have changed notably (much higher temps, oil dry on the track, rain, dust storms at Laguna etc..). The device does have backwards learning capabilities, but it will be more accurate if it starts over and builds a new simulation with the new conditions. The APEX Score in the post session data will still be somewhat comparable to previous sessions. As in, your laps times may be faster or slower with the new conditions, but the metrics for the APEX score are the same, so you can see if you get more out of the car, even if laps times are slower.
So say you achieved a Score of 76 with cool early morning temps at Laguna. Then later in the day the track had warmed up substantially, reducing grip, and the surface was coated with dust. You go 1-2 seconds slower but get a score of 78. You pushed the car closer to 100% of it's capability, even though the laps times were slower.
I'm going to search the FAQ's and internet - but if I don't find it - how do I check the battery state (charge %) - it would be nice if the iPhone app showed the battery charge state so I can tell if my APEXPro is ready to go for the whole day - and while plugged in I think the APEXPro should show that it's charging...
I'm going to search the FAQ's and internet - but if I don't find it - how do I check the battery state (charge %) - it would be nice if the iPhone app showed the battery charge state so I can tell if my APEXPro is ready to go for the whole day - and while plugged in I think the APEXPro should show that it's charging...
this seems an unfortunate oversight - hopefully future versions of the iOS app will add this simple and obvious feature.
If you take a look at the post here, the implication is that the present generation of DDC box does not have the required hardware to provide a battery level indication so I think we're out of luck when it comes to wishing for a simple app update to provide this.
Some more video running the Apex unit. No data overlay this time because stupid me forgot to reprogram the solo unit for the GT3. I like reviewing the video afterwards.
I let some of my friends who are experienced drivers, but still have a hard time feeling the limit of the car, try out the device in their car. Both were skeptical, but both came out with faster lap times and liked the device.
The Apex Pro folks have released a couple of updates since I was last able to get out and play with the DDC. As of the most recent update I'm happy to report that the issues I (and others) were experiencing with drop-outs at The Ridge Motorsports Park in WA seem to be resolved!
After some experimentation I have settled on a mounting spot for it in my GT4 -- center of the dash far enough forward that it appears in front of my VBOX HD2 camera but in spot that's not obscured by the data overlay and yet is also easy enough to see in peripheral vision as I drive.
And as for effectiveness of the tool...well this lap is just over 1.5 seconds faster than I had managed previously. Some of that is down to comparing squiggly line data with a fellow GT4 owner but a good chunk of it comes from looking for ways to get more green and less red/orange/yellow. This is the chart for the lap above:
Note that there's still a little gap area in the color strip right at the point of the start/finish line but given the lap times are within a hundredth of a second of the times measured by the VBOX HD2 I'd say the former drop-outs are a different issue and I'm getting reliable data from the DDC all the time now.
08-13-2017, 02:27 PM
(just kidding)
