Stealer 991.2 GT3 Listing on Rennlist
08-10-2017, 10:10 AM
#121
Burning Brakes
To agree, I don't think Porsche has a production issue, but would assume there is potentially always a little more you can squeeze out. So when demand is so high and margins are good you an afford to find a bit more incremental production perhaps at a little higher cost even. Adds to the overall quantum. But as you say, comes at an incremental cost, so to keep margin, more pressure on increasing the price.
Smart company, at present, best in the industry possibly. Not sure if this current hysteria around GT cars was designed or occurred by chance. But it is a reality.
Im with you, I don't need more and don't need the latest, although at present, am looking to add and have succumbed to wanting rather then needing a GT car in preference to a turbo or a last generation one. But there is a price point where Im out and a timeframe where its not worth waiting and will go with an alternative etc. I get your point, its at that point for you now, for me, different reasons but Im not far behind and others a bit further along perhaps.
But unfortunately for all of us, I stand by my earlier proposition, I think the price of GT cars are going to increase in price at a rate higher then the rest of car market and I think unfortunately for US customers, its going to be worse.
To console myself of this fact, I just count myself lucky I arent needing new sneakers and wanting Yeezy Adidas sneakers ... Stealer foot wear stores.. !
Smart company, at present, best in the industry possibly. Not sure if this current hysteria around GT cars was designed or occurred by chance. But it is a reality.
Im with you, I don't need more and don't need the latest, although at present, am looking to add and have succumbed to wanting rather then needing a GT car in preference to a turbo or a last generation one. But there is a price point where Im out and a timeframe where its not worth waiting and will go with an alternative etc. I get your point, its at that point for you now, for me, different reasons but Im not far behind and others a bit further along perhaps.
But unfortunately for all of us, I stand by my earlier proposition, I think the price of GT cars are going to increase in price at a rate higher then the rest of car market and I think unfortunately for US customers, its going to be worse.
To console myself of this fact, I just count myself lucky I arent needing new sneakers and wanting Yeezy Adidas sneakers ... Stealer foot wear stores.. !
I don't follow when I hear Porsche has a production issue? You want your factory at max capacity to utilize the work force. Adding capacity always comes at a cost, and the risk is margin decline by adding more labor. EU labor is very expensive, and Porsche has the highest margins in the business not a sound plan to add capacity.
Now capacity is good for the consumer as it lowers pricing, and the perfect example look at BMW that pushed the capacity arms race. Lot of product with lower margins. Porsche deems GT cars are rewards for loyal customers, not a run of the mill car lets over supple the market. The club becomes not so special right. It's marketing at its best ......people dying to get one, and you wait in line to possiblly get one. They are not a dumb company and they read this board and guess what they increase prices in 2018 ....this board is free market research for Porsche. Sorry I just don't get I have to have the next car that's marginally better, and most drivers can't use it to 60% of the cars ability. My RS with the current power level I don't want any more power well I must suck at driving.
Now capacity is good for the consumer as it lowers pricing, and the perfect example look at BMW that pushed the capacity arms race. Lot of product with lower margins. Porsche deems GT cars are rewards for loyal customers, not a run of the mill car lets over supple the market. The club becomes not so special right. It's marketing at its best ......people dying to get one, and you wait in line to possiblly get one. They are not a dumb company and they read this board and guess what they increase prices in 2018 ....this board is free market research for Porsche. Sorry I just don't get I have to have the next car that's marginally better, and most drivers can't use it to 60% of the cars ability. My RS with the current power level I don't want any more power well I must suck at driving.
08-10-2017, 12:18 PM
#122
Platinum Dealership
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Random price increases. Great idea everyone. Helps nobody, will not discourage anyone. People flip LaFerraris.
Supply issue:
Porsche has vendors that build:
Tires
Carbon seats
Magnesium Roofs
Carbon hoods/fenders
Pccb Carbon Rotors
Wiring harnesses
Alternators
Wheels
Etc
Anyone have a solution to that? They are depending on a chain of supply that is VERY specific to the models in question. You cannot schedule 30,000 911's and just change from 2,500 GT cars to 9,000 GT cars on the fly. This planning is years in advance. This planning volume specificity is why Porsche makes money, and Aston Martin does not.
Supply issue:
Porsche has vendors that build:
Tires
Carbon seats
Magnesium Roofs
Carbon hoods/fenders
Pccb Carbon Rotors
Wiring harnesses
Alternators
Wheels
Etc
Anyone have a solution to that? They are depending on a chain of supply that is VERY specific to the models in question. You cannot schedule 30,000 911's and just change from 2,500 GT cars to 9,000 GT cars on the fly. This planning is years in advance. This planning volume specificity is why Porsche makes money, and Aston Martin does not.
08-10-2017, 12:31 PM
#123
Technical Guru
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
And now so has Ferrari... 
They've also finally admitted to themselves that brand value actually increases with the more cars they make. And just like that day when a German engineer with an MBA was put in charge of PAG, Ferrari is now smoking from the same crack pipe.
They've also finally admitted to themselves that brand value actually increases with the more cars they make. And just like that day when a German engineer with an MBA was put in charge of PAG, Ferrari is now smoking from the same crack pipe.
08-10-2017, 03:17 PM
#124
SJW, a Carin' kinda guy
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Random price increases. Great idea everyone. Helps nobody, will not discourage anyone. People flip LaFerraris.
Supply issue:
Porsche has vendors that build:
Tires
Carbon seats
Magnesium Roofs
Carbon hoods/fenders
Pccb Carbon Rotors
Wiring harnesses
Alternators
Wheels
Etc
Anyone have a solution to that? They are depending on a chain of supply that is VERY specific to the models in question. You cannot schedule 30,000 911's and just change from 2,500 GT cars to 9,000 GT cars on the fly. This planning is years in advance. This planning volume specificity is why Porsche makes money, and Aston Martin does not.
Supply issue:
Porsche has vendors that build:
Tires
Carbon seats
Magnesium Roofs
Carbon hoods/fenders
Pccb Carbon Rotors
Wiring harnesses
Alternators
Wheels
Etc
Anyone have a solution to that? They are depending on a chain of supply that is VERY specific to the models in question. You cannot schedule 30,000 911's and just change from 2,500 GT cars to 9,000 GT cars on the fly. This planning is years in advance. This planning volume specificity is why Porsche makes money, and Aston Martin does not.
08-10-2017, 08:31 PM
#125
Three Wheelin'
Where are you getting 30,000 911s or 2500 GT cars? Not saying that is wrong -- well the GT cars number seems low, but am interested as to the source. As car as supply chain, there is usually one or two parts that are the bottle neck. If it is an optional part like LWBs, you make them unavailable and some people switch (this has been an issue at various times), but there are some parts that are obviously going to be capacity constrained (i.e. engines -- maybe impacted by GT3 991.1 issues?).
08-11-2017, 12:37 AM
#127
Banned
I'll tell you the number, because it was told to me when I was in Stuttgart for the factory tour this past March.
The production line puts out 256 cars per day, and that includes 911, 911TT, Boxster, and Cayman.
When I was there I barely saw any boxster / cayman. At the end of the line, every 3 minutes, a brand new 911 appears.
Now go run your math....
08-11-2017, 01:06 AM
#128
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I'll tell you the number, because it was told to me when I was in Stuttgart for the factory tour this past March.
The production line puts out 256 cars per day, and that includes 911, 911TT, Boxster, and Cayman.
When I was there I barely saw any boxster / cayman. At the end of the line, every 3 minutes, a brand new 911 appears.
Now go run your math....
The production line puts out 256 cars per day, and that includes 911, 911TT, Boxster, and Cayman.
When I was there I barely saw any boxster / cayman. At the end of the line, every 3 minutes, a brand new 911 appears.
Now go run your math....
08-11-2017, 04:14 AM
#129
Racer
Join Date: May 2016
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In 2016, Porsche produced 31,648 911’s and 24,882 Boxster/Cayman’s. This compares to 97,177 Macans and 71,693 Cayennes. These are production numbers for the entire year, not deliveries despite the fact that many people use them interchangeably.
Good morning Martin - Your recent silence on the topic of this thread is well noted; I only hope it continues going forward. Rather than slinging daily insults at Porsche dealers and PCNA, hopefully you can take that negative energy and channel it into something productive and positive. Hope you have a nice weekend.
Good morning Martin - Your recent silence on the topic of this thread is well noted; I only hope it continues going forward. Rather than slinging daily insults at Porsche dealers and PCNA, hopefully you can take that negative energy and channel it into something productive and positive. Hope you have a nice weekend.
08-11-2017, 09:36 AM
#130
Drifting
In 2016, Porsche produced 31,648 911’s and 24,882 Boxster/Cayman’s. This compares to 97,177 Macans and 71,693 Cayennes. These are production numbers for the entire year, not deliveries despite the fact that many people use them interchangeably.
Good morning Martin - Your recent silence on the topic of this thread is well noted; I only hope it continues going forward. Rather than slinging daily insults at Porsche dealers and PCNA, hopefully you can take that negative energy and channel it into something productive and positive. Hope you have a nice weekend.
Good morning Martin - Your recent silence on the topic of this thread is well noted; I only hope it continues going forward. Rather than slinging daily insults at Porsche dealers and PCNA, hopefully you can take that negative energy and channel it into something productive and positive. Hope you have a nice weekend.
I bought a car from Auto Gallery - sight unseen. Had a cracked rear diffuser 6k. Asked the dealer are there any defects is everything stock. Dealer confirmed no issues.
Received the car and called on the cracked diffuser - Mgr of AG stated it happened during transport. Week later received the service records - mechanic upon inspection prior to dealer purchasing the car noted cracked diffuser to used car manager upon inspection before they made an offer to buy.
Everything was in e-mails - sales managers response at the end of the day "we aren't fixing it or giving you any money back".
Bought a Speciale and FF - same scenario I never see a car before purchasing. One sent a second key that didn't work new key program and 300 miles to the dealer 2300.00 Sure enough on the Speciale only one key after two months of the dealer saying the key was on the way it showed up and worked but needs to be programmed 900.00.
Bought the GT3RS - car showed up with scratches from the transport drivers big boots on the interior plastic footwell and one key but the Porsche dealer reimbursed me in full around 1250.00 They did not want an unhappy customer.
All Ferrari dealers did not reimbursed me - so that's three crap F dealers but it's a Porsche forum so won't mention them by name. Dealers sponsor Ferrari forums so no one posts negative.
Reading reviews of good and bad experience with dealers is worth a lot too me - if it's not to you get over it.
08-11-2017, 10:11 AM
#131
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Give it a rest.
I bought a car from Auto Gallery - sight unseen. Had a cracked rear diffuser 6k. Asked the dealer are there any defects is everything stock. Dealer confirmed no issues.
Received the car and called on the cracked diffuser - Mgr of AG stated it happened during transport. Week later received the service records - mechanic upon inspection prior to dealer purchasing the car noted cracked diffuser to used car manager upon inspection before they made an offer to buy.
Everything was in e-mails - sales managers response at the end of the day "we aren't fixing it or giving you any money back".
Bought a Speciale and FF - same scenario I never see a car before purchasing. One sent a second key that didn't work new key program and 300 miles to the dealer 2300.00 Sure enough on the Speciale only one key after two months of the dealer saying the key was on the way it showed up and worked but needs to be programmed 900.00.
Bought the GT3RS - car showed up with scratches from the transport drivers big boots on the interior plastic footwell and one key but the Porsche dealer reimbursed me in full around 1250.00 They did not want an unhappy customer.
All Ferrari dealers did not reimbursed me - so that's three crap F dealers but it's a Porsche forum so won't mention them by name. Dealers sponsor Ferrari forums so no one posts negative.
Reading reviews of good and bad experience with dealers is worth a lot too me - if it's not to you get over it.
I bought a car from Auto Gallery - sight unseen. Had a cracked rear diffuser 6k. Asked the dealer are there any defects is everything stock. Dealer confirmed no issues.
Received the car and called on the cracked diffuser - Mgr of AG stated it happened during transport. Week later received the service records - mechanic upon inspection prior to dealer purchasing the car noted cracked diffuser to used car manager upon inspection before they made an offer to buy.
Everything was in e-mails - sales managers response at the end of the day "we aren't fixing it or giving you any money back".
Bought a Speciale and FF - same scenario I never see a car before purchasing. One sent a second key that didn't work new key program and 300 miles to the dealer 2300.00 Sure enough on the Speciale only one key after two months of the dealer saying the key was on the way it showed up and worked but needs to be programmed 900.00.
Bought the GT3RS - car showed up with scratches from the transport drivers big boots on the interior plastic footwell and one key but the Porsche dealer reimbursed me in full around 1250.00 They did not want an unhappy customer.
All Ferrari dealers did not reimbursed me - so that's three crap F dealers but it's a Porsche forum so won't mention them by name. Dealers sponsor Ferrari forums so no one posts negative.
Reading reviews of good and bad experience with dealers is worth a lot too me - if it's not to you get over it.
The hypocrisy in this section of Rennlist is outstanding and he's merely called the OP out on this one.
What has really amazed me is how much bashing of Porsche and it's dealers that is received on this forum from owners that otherwise benefit by the brands popularity and incredible re-sale values.
Go team!
08-11-2017, 02:48 PM
#132
Drifting
No, I think Chicago whale has a point and made a good one. I'd recommend you see your vehicle's in person before buying but that's just obvious to me.
The hypocrisy in this section of Rennlist is outstanding and he's merely called the OP out on this one.
What has really amazed me is how much bashing of Porsche and it's dealers that is received on this forum from owners that otherwise benefit by the brands popularity and incredible re-sale values.
Go team!
The hypocrisy in this section of Rennlist is outstanding and he's merely called the OP out on this one.
What has really amazed me is how much bashing of Porsche and it's dealers that is received on this forum from owners that otherwise benefit by the brands popularity and incredible re-sale values.
Go team!
You can not tell someone how to feel it's a naive comment.
If you stop and just think customer service can be crappy or excellent and that has no meaning you are an interesting fella.
What has amazed you by how much bashing is reality - you just don't like it. Bad news travels 10x faster than good news so the solution would be to fix the bad news vs your thoughts of shooting the messenger.
08-11-2017, 06:52 PM
#133
Rennlist Member
In 2016, Porsche produced 31,648 911’s and 24,882 Boxster/Cayman’s. This compares to 97,177 Macans and 71,693 Cayennes. These are production numbers for the entire year, not deliveries despite the fact that many people use them interchangeably.
Good morning Martin - Your recent silence on the topic of this thread is well noted; I only hope it continues going forward. Rather than slinging daily insults at Porsche dealers and PCNA, hopefully you can take that negative energy and channel it into something productive and positive. Hope you have a nice weekend.
Good morning Martin - Your recent silence on the topic of this thread is well noted; I only hope it continues going forward. Rather than slinging daily insults at Porsche dealers and PCNA, hopefully you can take that negative energy and channel it into something productive and positive. Hope you have a nice weekend.
All that to say, most everyone here on the forum probably shares the same sentiment that we have good dealers and bad. When a dealer tells me I can start bidding for spots at 25k and I should feel lucky that my oil change was only 350, and not 500 like other dealerships they have been associated with, I start looking elsewhere. As it is, I ship all of my cars 300 miles to a different dealer now for any oil change or other service as I know they conduct business ethically. I enjoy having a dealer where the transaction is mutually beneficial. The moment it becomes a "me" against "them", I'll go elsewhere. Good luck with that business model when sales slow down.
08-11-2017, 08:57 PM
#135
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
In 2016, Porsche produced 31,648 911’s and 24,882 Boxster/Cayman’s. This compares to 97,177 Macans and 71,693 Cayennes. These are production numbers for the entire year, not deliveries despite the fact that many people use them interchangeably.
Good morning Martin - Your recent silence on the topic of this thread is well noted; I only hope it continues going forward. Rather than slinging daily insults at Porsche dealers and PCNA, hopefully you can take that negative energy and channel it into something productive and positive. Hope you have a nice weekend.
Good morning Martin - Your recent silence on the topic of this thread is well noted; I only hope it continues going forward. Rather than slinging daily insults at Porsche dealers and PCNA, hopefully you can take that negative energy and channel it into something productive and positive. Hope you have a nice weekend.
I'm not sure why you continue to try and single out Martin, but I'm assuming you work for a dealer based on all of your posts.
All that to say, most everyone here on the forum probably shares the same sentiment that we have good dealers and bad. When a dealer tells me I can start bidding for spots at 25k and I should feel lucky that my oil change was only 350, and not 500 like other dealerships they have been associated with, I start looking elsewhere. As it is, I ship all of my cars 300 miles to a different dealer now for any oil change or other service as I know they conduct business ethically. I enjoy having a dealer where the transaction is mutually beneficial. The moment it becomes a "me" against "them", I'll go elsewhere. Good luck with that business model when sales slow down.
All that to say, most everyone here on the forum probably shares the same sentiment that we have good dealers and bad. When a dealer tells me I can start bidding for spots at 25k and I should feel lucky that my oil change was only 350, and not 500 like other dealerships they have been associated with, I start looking elsewhere. As it is, I ship all of my cars 300 miles to a different dealer now for any oil change or other service as I know they conduct business ethically. I enjoy having a dealer where the transaction is mutually beneficial. The moment it becomes a "me" against "them", I'll go elsewhere. Good luck with that business model when sales slow down.
