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Old 08-06-2017, 01:40 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
Simple answer is set a price that clears the market. .
Yup. Simply do a dutch auction, starting at a XX% premium over list pricing (Base + options) and slowly move downward until all allocations are gone. Buyers have to be pre approved to bid, be prepared to enter their locked builds and put down a 20% non refundable deposit. Run it all out of PCNA, allocate profits to the dealerships based on where the buyer is located.

Cars will go to the people who value them the most and the flip margin will be eliminated, with all profits going to Porsche and their dealers. One nuance could be to give dealerships the option to obtain a few allocations outside of the auction only if they sell those at MSRP, thereby giving them some flexibility if they want to throw bones to their best customers.
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Old 08-06-2017, 02:28 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by nuvolari612 View Post
25 best local customers - order high msrp service trade their cars at the dealer even better guys tracking which equates to spending more money. If a customer ticks all the profit centers of the dealer loyalty talks bs walks.

Can not stand dealers going on sitting talking negotiating. If it takes me more than 20 minutes I walk and have good friends who own dealerships of which I support by buying and telling friends to buy there.

Anyway - your question is silly majority here in these threads are frustrated ever see a a kid in a toy store not get what he wants - we are big kids with money so not getting what we want is the grown up version. Every car guy is the same only difference is the price of the toy. ADM to a buyer that moves the car outside the territory or gets burnt is a naive way of doing business seen McLaren Ferrari Aston guys never return to the brand because they punch above their weight class.

Porsche is entering a point where big depreciation is going to happen - they see it on the Pan Am Cayenne etc. but if this happens on GT cars basically like a persons second home - the first thing that goes when the cycle changes - so my question is when the cycle changes do you want customers who sell or support your brand.
You are also forgetting *short attention span*; I have money and 9 Porsches already. If the dealer refuses to sell me a car like what just happened 2 months ago at Walters when I tried to order a .2 6MT, I'm over it. Onto the next thing.

Don't care about allocations or stupid explanations of why I can't have it or hoops I need to jump through.

Pisses me off that a dealer gets in the way of my impulse buy after I had finally worked myself up to order a car with a 9A1 engine.
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Old 08-06-2017, 03:33 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Catorce View Post
You are also forgetting *short attention span*; I have money and 9 Porsches already. If the dealer refuses to sell me a car like what just happened 2 months ago at Walters when I tried to order a .2 6MT, I'm over it. Onto the next thing.

Don't care about allocations or stupid explanations of why I can't have it or hoops I need to jump through.

Pisses me off that a dealer gets in the way of my impulse buy after I had finally worked myself up to order a car with a 9A1 engine.

Ferrari will not sell over MSRP - they learned the lesson from guys just like you they also do not sell out of territory unless someone like me lives in an open zone. Suggest working with people you trust - life is too short.

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Old 08-06-2017, 03:34 PM
  #64  
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Thank you for your replies, and I'll answer a few of them a bit later. I'd like to give Martin the opportunity to respond, since this was primarily directed at him. With over 7K posts and many multiple posts per day antagonizing dealers, I know he'll get to this thread eventually.

Catorce - sorry to hear Walter's got in the way of your "impulse" buy - don't take it personally. People normally regret "impulse" buys, so maybe it's a blessing in disguise. According to your signature, it looks like your most recent car is a 2011 Camaro SS. CHEVY THUNDER BABY!!!!!! Awesome acceleration - as long as you drive in a straight line. Did you offer it to them in trade?

Last edited by ChicagoWhale; 08-06-2017 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 08-06-2017, 04:26 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by ChicagoWhale View Post
Thank you for your replies, and I'll answer a few of them a bit later. I'd like to give Martin the opportunity to respond, since this was primarily directed at him. With over 7K posts and many multiple posts per day antagonizing dealers, I know he'll get to this thread eventually.

Catorce - sorry to hear Walter's got in the way of your "impulse" buy - don't take it personally. People normally regret "impulse" buys, so maybe it's a blessing in disguise. According to your signature, it looks like your most recent car is a 2011 Camaro SS. CHEVY THUNDER BABY!!!!!! Awesome acceleration - as long as you drive in a straight line. Did you offer it to them in trade?
Look again, I own ALL those cars right now. Those aren't past cars, those are the cars I currently own.

I'm not sure what you are driving at exactly with your comment, but I legitimately tried to order the new GT3 with the 6 speed from my closest dealer.
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Old 08-06-2017, 04:39 PM
  #66  
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Oh yeah and I don't do trade ins, I never sell my cars, ever. I offered to pay cash which I am told (by them) is very common. So there you have it.
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Old 08-06-2017, 05:22 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by ChicagoWhale View Post
USCTrojan,

Since you're probably the most antagonistic anti-dealer poster here on RL, I'd like to ask how you'd handle the GT3 allocation issue. I hate to single you out, but you seem to wear that title with pride, so I'm confident you won't mind.

1.) If you were a large dealer like Beverly Hills, how would you determine who gets your 25 GT3 allocations? While it may seem unfathomable to RL posters, consider that most large dealers in large cities have an almost endless number of buyers willing to pay over MSRP for the allocation.

2.) If you were a small dealer and you only got 1 allocation, how would you determine who gets it? And yes, there were many small dealers who only got 1 allocation.


No hypotheticals please.

If you don't want to answer, that's fine too. I'm just really curious how you'd handle it, since you're so vocal and antagonistic about it. Plus, you started this thread and it's exactly the issue at hand.
If I were a dealer, here is what I would do....

I would do the same thing for both big and small down dealerships. I would make a first come, first serve deposit for local customers only to receive GT cars at MSRP along with a 12-month first right of refusal buyback clause. If one of the customers flips their cars, they are blackballed from ever buying another GT car. I would have the sales guys encourage all of the customers about putting down a deposit down if they are interested in any of the GT cars. Each customer who puts a deposit down would be given their position on the list/s. If someone passes or doesn't want the car then it goes to the next person on the list. I would also not sell any allocations for over MSRP to other stealers who call in trolling for cars.

There's no perfect system out there but the one above would be the most fair to both the newbie buyers and the repeat customers. Using a point system like CJ uses at Porsche Fresno is also a very good, fair strategy to sell GT cars.

Look, I get that dealers are in business to make money but some dealers who sell to the highest bidder really look at thing very short-term vs building long-term relationships with a high probability of repeat business. I'm also a realtor so I know what the value of having long-term relationships are. I provide commission rebates to buyers to pay for most all or all of their closing costs and a reduced variable listing commission structure to my sellers. Why do I do it? Because it's the right thing to do and because it is great prepaid marketing for me which will generate future repeat and referral business. As my grandpa used to tell me..."give up a little now to get more later."

Also, good guys dealers like CJ's Porsche Fresno, North Houston, Sonnen, etc should be rewarded with more business because they do it the right way focusing on long-term relationships. I think we know that most of the stealers are corporate owned dealers while many of the good guy dealers are individual/s owned dealers.
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Old 08-07-2017, 05:27 AM
  #68  
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Well Martin… I must admit, I was more than a little excited to wake up this morning (ZCH time) to partly sunny skies, 15 degrees and a response from my new pen pal, USCTrojan.

However, I will also admit my excitement somewhat dwindled after reading your post. <<air out of balloon noise>>> I hate to start this correspondence on the wrong foot, but your post reminded me of what Jean Paul Sartre would refer to as…. nothingness.

Your post is one giant contradiction.

In your first paragraph, the process you describe is very black/white and mechanical. It’s also very naive, though. There’s a list, and it’s managed by a first-come, first-serve basis with deposits. Like a game show, whoever gets their deposit in first - wins. The client then receives a number to prove their place in line. As a dealer, you will loathe this decision, as your clients will continually question whether or not their spot has been compromised. "Did I just get the 14th GT3 from my dealer, instead of the 13th GT3 as promised?” By the way, how far in advance do you start accepting deposits? What do you do when one client complains that they were not notified about the deposits at the same time as others?

Then — CONVERSELY — you talk about the importance of building long-term relationships, loyalty, repeat business, etc. Yet you just set up a rigid, apathetic (and flawed) system that does NOTHING for your loyal, long-term clients. Your process rewards the time-stamp by which a deposit is made over relationships and loyalty that you supposedly value. Try telling one of your best clients who’s purchased 10 cars from you that he simply didn’t pay his deposit fast enough…. some random guy with beautiful, long, feathered, blond hair and a really cool Camaro walked into the dealership at the right moment and paid his deposit quicker. That’s a conversation that will end any long-term relationship aspirations you might have had.

So, Martin, which is it? The time/date of the deposit, or the relationship that dictates whether you receive an allocation? As a dealer, you won’t create any relationships if all you care about is the time-stamp of the deposit.

Your process creates other issues, too. Once word gets out that USCTrojan’s Porsche dealership will give a GT3 allocation to any local client who places a deposit far enough in advance and/or quick enough, you’ll have the same half dozen clients rolling their deposits from one GT car to the next. You’ll never be able to give a GT car to a different group of clients… they’ll lock up all your allocations in advance, and they’ve got their number in line to prove it.

Also, what happens when you take a deposit and you’ve guaranteed the client a certain position in line, but you can’t secure the allocation from PCNA? What if your client doesn’t believe you when you tell him you took his money but can’t get him an allocation? After all, he’s been to C&C and knows of multiple people who have taken delivery at your dealership.

Lastly, how many deposits do you take? 10? 50? Infinite? What happens when you stop taking deposits because you have far too many, and now everyone on RL thinks you’re just another dealer telling everyone that you “don’t have a list anymore?” How do you respond when clients accuse you of stacking up deposits just to draw interest on them? How do you respond when a client threatens to blast you on YELP because you won’t give him the opportunity to get a GT car, yet you gave 20 other people a chance? Are you discriminating? What happens when you couldn't get your client one particular GT car, so you tell him you'll do everything you can to get him the next GT car, but the other manager in the store just took 8 random deposits on your weekend off? Then PCNA only gives you 3 allocations anyway... now what do you do? Now you've got all sorts of pissed off people.

You’ve created a MESS, Martin!

You might get so sick of all the ****ing bull****, all the hysteria, all the forum bashing, and all the threats that you simply take NO deposits from anyone, build all 7 of the cars yourself and sell them when they arrive. After all, these GT cars only account for 1% of your retail business anyway. It's 1% of your business and 99% of your headaches.
------

A couple of you suggest a dutch auction. That would be about as effective as a dutch oven. I would suspect if most of you were called and asked for your highest bid, you’d tell the “stealership” to fly a kite, and then you’d create a thread on RL about how reprehensible the dealer/PCNA is.

Nuvolari612 - To be honest, I really couldn’t make heads or tails of what you were saying. I think I’d need 20mg of Ritalin to decipher your post.
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:10 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Catorce View Post
Look again, I own ALL those cars right now. Those aren't past cars, those are the cars I currently own.

I'm not sure what you are driving at exactly with your comment, but I legitimately tried to order the new GT3 with the 6 speed from my closest dealer.
I think he meant that the newest car in your sig line was the 2011 Camaro. I don't think he meant recently owned. He could have been more clear, but that's how I took it. Looking at your sig, like you said, you DO hold onto your cars, which if a dealer was smart, they'd see that as future service customer. That doesn't mean you don't have more cars that are daily drivers that aren't in your sig. Maybe you have '16 BMW 5 series or '17 Mercedes etc. I think he was just making a point that you're not going in and buying 4 brand new Porsche's a year (Panny Daily, Cayenne for skiing/snowboarding, Macan for the wife and a Boxster for your kids college graduation etc.) and a lot of these people getting allocations are doing that either in order to be near the head of the class when it comes to GT allocations, or just because that's how often they buy new cars anyway, so they might as well make them all Porsches and be brand loyal and get that GT allocation as icing.
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Old 08-07-2017, 07:23 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by ChicagoWhale View Post
Well Martin… I must admit, I was more than a little excited to wake up this morning (ZCH time) to partly sunny skies, 15 degrees and a response from my new pen pal, USCTrojan.

However, I will also admit my excitement somewhat dwindled after reading your post. <<air out of balloon noise>>> I hate to start this correspondence on the wrong foot, but your post reminded me of what Jean Paul Sartre would refer to as…. nothingness.

Your post is one giant contradiction.

In your first paragraph, the process you describe is very black/white and mechanical. It’s also very naive, though. There’s a list, and it’s managed by a first-come, first-serve basis with deposits. Like a game show, whoever gets their deposit in first - wins. The client then receives a number to prove their place in line. As a dealer, you will loathe this decision, as your clients will continually question whether or not their spot has been compromised. "Did I just get the 14th GT3 from my dealer, instead of the 13th GT3 as promised?” By the way, how far in advance do you start accepting deposits? What do you do when one client complains that they were not notified about the deposits at the same time as others?

Then — CONVERSELY — you talk about the importance of building long-term relationships, loyalty, repeat business, etc. Yet you just set up a rigid, apathetic (and flawed) system that does NOTHING for your loyal, long-term clients. Your process rewards the time-stamp by which a deposit is made over relationships and loyalty that you supposedly value. Try telling one of your best clients who’s purchased 10 cars from you that he simply didn’t pay his deposit fast enough…. some random guy with beautiful, long, feathered, blond hair and a really cool Camaro walked into the dealership at the right moment and paid his deposit quicker. That’s a conversation that will end any long-term relationship aspirations you might have had.

So, Martin, which is it? The time/date of the deposit, or the relationship that dictates whether you receive an allocation? As a dealer, you won’t create any relationships if all you care about is the time-stamp of the deposit.

Your process creates other issues, too. Once word gets out that USCTrojan’s Porsche dealership will give a GT3 allocation to any local client who places a deposit far enough in advance and/or quick enough, you’ll have the same half dozen clients rolling their deposits from one GT car to the next. You’ll never be able to give a GT car to a different group of clients… they’ll lock up all your allocations in advance, and they’ve got their number in line to prove it.

Also, what happens when you take a deposit and you’ve guaranteed the client a certain position in line, but you can’t secure the allocation from PCNA? What if your client doesn’t believe you when you tell him you took his money but can’t get him an allocation? After all, he’s been to C&C and knows of multiple people who have taken delivery at your dealership.

Lastly, how many deposits do you take? 10? 50? Infinite? What happens when you stop taking deposits because you have far too many, and now everyone on RL thinks you’re just another dealer telling everyone that you “don’t have a list anymore?” How do you respond when clients accuse you of stacking up deposits just to draw interest on them? How do you respond when a client threatens to blast you on YELP because you won’t give him the opportunity to get a GT car, yet you gave 20 other people a chance? Are you discriminating? What happens when you couldn't get your client one particular GT car, so you tell him you'll do everything you can to get him the next GT car, but the other manager in the store just took 8 random deposits on your weekend off? Then PCNA only gives you 3 allocations anyway... now what do you do? Now you've got all sorts of pissed off people.

You’ve created a MESS, Martin!

You might get so sick of all the ****ing bull****, all the hysteria, all the forum bashing, and all the threats that you simply take NO deposits from anyone, build all 7 of the cars yourself and sell them when they arrive. After all, these GT cars only account for 1% of your retail business anyway. It's 1% of your business and 99% of your headaches.
------

A couple of you suggest a dutch auction. That would be about as effective as a dutch oven. I would suspect if most of you were called and asked for your highest bid, you’d tell the “stealership” to fly a kite, and then you’d create a thread on RL about how reprehensible the dealer/PCNA is.

Nuvolari612 - To be honest, I really couldn’t make heads or tails of what you were saying. I think I’d need 20mg of Ritalin to decipher your post.
What a load of nonsense. First come first served works perfectly well in Australia. If some 'big shot' can't handle a transparent system, they can go elsewhere. You massively overstate the importance of an individual to a dealership (and massively underestimate the power of trust in building long term relationships).
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Old 08-07-2017, 09:18 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Catorce View Post
Look again, I own ALL those cars right now. Those aren't past cars, those are the cars I currently own.

I'm not sure what you are driving at exactly with your comment, but I legitimately tried to order the new GT3 with the 6 speed from my closest dealer.
He's a car salesmen.. #ignorehim
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Old 08-07-2017, 09:48 AM
  #72  
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Man I am so glad you are not a dealer in Australia and for once I am actually half comfortable paying the price we do if we don't have to put up with this. As others have said the first in first served works. Further if you want to look after "loyal customers" give them a heads up on what may be coming down the line next time they are in the dealership being "loyal" and spending money. Then accept their deposit like anyone else.

Something that you may be missing is there are probably a lot of successful individuals in their own right on here conducting business and managing markets (supply and demand) obviously quite successfully, yet they apparently have no clue how supply and demand works with a P car ??

I also think personally that a lot of the frustration is also because most are passionate about the brand and the car and can see the writing on the wall when you hear about some of the examples stated. Porsche wouldn't be the first or the last highly successful brand to tear up its market share and profitability with some simple mistakes and miscalculation of its market.



Originally Posted by ChicagoWhale View Post
Well Martin… I must admit, I was more than a little excited to wake up this morning (ZCH time) to partly sunny skies,...
...u’d create a thread on RL about how reprehensible the dealer/PCNA is.

Nuvolari612 - To be honest, I really couldn’t make heads or tails of what you were saying. I think I’d need 20mg of Ritalin to decipher your post.
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Old 08-07-2017, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ChicagoWhale View Post

Your post is one giant contradiction.
Most of his posts are and that is why the ignore list is awesome. There are several others just like him. The only way to make RL palettable #addtoignorelist
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Old 08-07-2017, 09:59 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Oldmxnut View Post
Man I am so glad you are not a dealer in Australia and for once I am actually half comfortable paying the price we do if we don't have to put up with this. As others have said the first in first served works. Further if you want to look after "loyal customers" give them a heads up on what may be coming down the line next time they are in the dealership being "loyal" and spending money. Then accept their deposit like anyone else.

Something that you may be missing is there are probably a lot of successful individuals in their own right on here conducting business and managing markets (supply and demand) obviously quite successfully, yet they apparently have no clue how supply and demand works with a P car ??

I also think personally that a lot of the frustration is also because most are passionate about the brand and the car and can see the writing on the wall when you hear about some of the examples stated. Porsche wouldn't be the first or the last highly successful brand to tear up its market share and profitability with some simple mistakes and miscalculation of its market.
May work in your country but would NEVER and doesn't work here. Some people have 5 dealers within driving distance. Bottom feeders just call them all, give deposits and get to be "first" on all the lists. Then when the allocation come all these dealers call them and give them the allocation. Then guess where all the flippers come from. And you watch, mark my words it will happen here.

The first guy to flip will be this excuse, I GUARANTEE IT.

"Selling my delivery mile PDK GT3 because I ended up getting a spot for a manual". This guy will have gotten two allocations while others are 3,046 on the list and will not get one.
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Old 08-07-2017, 10:53 AM
  #75  
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I don't understand why you say it won't work here.. we aren't that strange just because we live upside down and the water flushes down the toilet the opposite direction!..
We have similar number of dealers within driving or easily accessible and nothing stopping me putting a deposit with a few dealers (if they accepted one). And yes ultimately doesn't stop flippers outright but it does materially improve the quality of the relationship between the market and the dealers here. I and many guys I know just regularly come back to the dealer we know and continue our repeat business. Flippers occur here, usually privately or via used car dealers BUT you very rarely see an OEM dealer obviously doing it.

One thing that is very apparent here is that you don't see or hear the level of dealer bashing that you do in the states. You don't see it on the local forums and you don't hear it at the track or cars and coffee...And believe me you would as culturally we a quite happy to whinge and complain about a lot of things. We do complain about the price of vehicles broadly but 90% of that is a taxation issue. I was at a porsche event in the US in 2015 and you would think Porsche dealers where ex con's and the lowest of individuals from the discussion.

Maybe if your senior enough at your dealership, why not implement it and try it next GT model..you might be surprised.

[To put my comments in perspective I founded and run a company that rents and sells OEM equipment (not cars but similar) with over a billion dollars in sales annually and can attest that while buyers may be different, markets act and respond the same where ever you go. ]


Originally Posted by goin2drt View Post
May work in your country but would NEVER and doesn't work here. Some people have 5 dealers within driving distance. Bottom feeders just call them all, give deposits and get to be "first" on all the lists. Then when the allocation come all these dealers call them and give them the allocation. Then guess where all the flippers come from. And you watch, mark my words it will happen here.

The first guy to flip will be this excuse, I GUARANTEE IT.

"Selling my delivery mile PDK GT3 because I ended up getting a spot for a manual". This guy will have gotten two allocations while others are 3,046 on the list and will not get one.
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