Stealer 991.2 GT3 Listing on Rennlist
08-15-2017, 12:24 AM
#181
Drifting
Martin - ok.. now I think I understand why you're Porsche Fresno’s biggest cheerleader. If I believed I was buying a GT3RS for “$20K-$40K less than actual market pricing,” I too would think all other dealers are “stealerships.” The problem with that equation — if it’s true — is that it also means that CJ paid the owner of that GT3RS "$20K-$40K less than actual market pricing.” From the ecclesiastical tome Jacob’s Well: an English Treatise on the Cleansing of Man’s Conscience (circa 1450): "To robbe Petyr & gave it Poule, it were non almesse but great synne.”
As I’ve mentioned in a previous post, the retailing of GT cars represents less than 1% of a dealer’s annual sales - for all dealers, big and small. If you’re a Porsche dealer who retails 6-8 new Porsches per month total (maybe 1 or 2 911’s), how many 911 GT cars do you think you’re entitled to get? Continually throwing fuel onto Rennlist fires and purporting to be the GT white knight who will save the forum from all the other dealers is not how you grow your new Porsche dealership. You may grab a few fans on the forums, but you alienate the mothership who controls your allocations.
The way you get more GT allocations from PCNA is to focus on everything but GT cars. Your job is to focus on maximizing Macan, Cayenne, 718 and 911 sales within your area of responsibility (AOR). That’s what Porsche dealers in the US and Europe do all day. Convert that BMW X5 buyer in your AOR to a Cayenne. Convert the Mercedes ML buyer to a Macan. Explain to the life-long Corvette buyer why the 911 is worth more, and then make sure you compliment his feathered hair and mustache. Retail NORMAL 911’s to the enthusiasts in your community. Grow your CPO business in your AOR. In a nutshell, grow Porsche sales and service within you AOR - that’s your job, and that’s what PCNA requires of all their dealers across the country.
Maybe one day, you’ll grow your dealership so large you’ll need to sell some bonds to finance your expansion. If so, I’m happy to help.
CAlexio, Eduardo and a few others… thank you for your level-headed commentary.
As I’ve mentioned in a previous post, the retailing of GT cars represents less than 1% of a dealer’s annual sales - for all dealers, big and small. If you’re a Porsche dealer who retails 6-8 new Porsches per month total (maybe 1 or 2 911’s), how many 911 GT cars do you think you’re entitled to get? Continually throwing fuel onto Rennlist fires and purporting to be the GT white knight who will save the forum from all the other dealers is not how you grow your new Porsche dealership. You may grab a few fans on the forums, but you alienate the mothership who controls your allocations.
The way you get more GT allocations from PCNA is to focus on everything but GT cars. Your job is to focus on maximizing Macan, Cayenne, 718 and 911 sales within your area of responsibility (AOR). That’s what Porsche dealers in the US and Europe do all day. Convert that BMW X5 buyer in your AOR to a Cayenne. Convert the Mercedes ML buyer to a Macan. Explain to the life-long Corvette buyer why the 911 is worth more, and then make sure you compliment his feathered hair and mustache. Retail NORMAL 911’s to the enthusiasts in your community. Grow your CPO business in your AOR. In a nutshell, grow Porsche sales and service within you AOR - that’s your job, and that’s what PCNA requires of all their dealers across the country.
Maybe one day, you’ll grow your dealership so large you’ll need to sell some bonds to finance your expansion. If so, I’m happy to help.
CAlexio, Eduardo and a few others… thank you for your level-headed commentary.
08-15-2017, 04:31 PM
#182
Rennlist Member
Chicago Whale- I have been on RL for over a decade. That is why I'm "one of the guys"
Feel free to post under your real name, dealership name, etc. It would earn a lot more credibility. When new people show up and antagonize RL guys, it just puts you on a divisive path. I realize that Porsche has people who read these boards. Sonnen's account guy hit me up to tell me I needed to tread carefully now that I am a dealer.
I get that. BUT- I will not be dishonest. Of course it is a business. I have over a dozen stores nationwide. Goal is to have a big dealer profit annually so I can create a sustaining LeMans level racing program. Hence my company is called Cj's Road to LeMans.
I sell cars so I can go race. As Martin said, I could just be a car collector and live on a couch but I prefer to get my hands dirty and work for a living. I enjoy the business. There are a lot of difficult elements to the business. It is a very closed network and in some ways I am very "new meat".
Yes I have friends on the board- because we have things in common. Like, tracking our cars, enjoying the color purple, 993 Turbos, 997 GT3RS's, rear wheel steering etc.
If you work at Porsche Exchange or something like that, just say it. But you come across as incredibly inflammatory and unwelcome when you make didactic posts. Who are you defending by intimating that "I am doing it wrong?" Penske? AutoNation?
At no point have I said anything to Rennlist that I have not told Porsche (Klaus, Detlev, Frank, etc) directly. They encourage enthusiasm, I'm enthusiastic. The only skeleton in my closet is that I have less money than the massive dealer groups.
Feel free to post under your real name, dealership name, etc. It would earn a lot more credibility. When new people show up and antagonize RL guys, it just puts you on a divisive path. I realize that Porsche has people who read these boards. Sonnen's account guy hit me up to tell me I needed to tread carefully now that I am a dealer.
I get that. BUT- I will not be dishonest. Of course it is a business. I have over a dozen stores nationwide. Goal is to have a big dealer profit annually so I can create a sustaining LeMans level racing program. Hence my company is called Cj's Road to LeMans.
I sell cars so I can go race. As Martin said, I could just be a car collector and live on a couch but I prefer to get my hands dirty and work for a living. I enjoy the business. There are a lot of difficult elements to the business. It is a very closed network and in some ways I am very "new meat".
Yes I have friends on the board- because we have things in common. Like, tracking our cars, enjoying the color purple, 993 Turbos, 997 GT3RS's, rear wheel steering etc.
If you work at Porsche Exchange or something like that, just say it. But you come across as incredibly inflammatory and unwelcome when you make didactic posts. Who are you defending by intimating that "I am doing it wrong?" Penske? AutoNation?
At no point have I said anything to Rennlist that I have not told Porsche (Klaus, Detlev, Frank, etc) directly. They encourage enthusiasm, I'm enthusiastic. The only skeleton in my closet is that I have less money than the massive dealer groups.
Not to get OT but you know in some ways you and Roger Penske have a common thread - both were professional athletes before car dealer/race team owners. Both are intense and driven competitors. RP has just been at it a lot longer ... I'm betting you'll be constantly closing the gap (and they know it!). Oh, and you're not doing it wrong, just differently and who knows, perhaps better.
08-15-2017, 09:15 PM
#183
Platinum Dealership
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Originally Posted by stronbl
CJ, thanks for your well phrased and interesting response above. I enjoyed it.
Not to get OT but you know in some ways you and Roger Penske have a common thread - both were professional athletes before car dealer/race team owners. Both are intense and driven competitors. RP has just been at it a lot longer ... I'm betting you'll be constantly closing the gap (and they know it!). Oh, and you're not doing it wrong, just differently and who knows, perhaps better.
Not to get OT but you know in some ways you and Roger Penske have a common thread - both were professional athletes before car dealer/race team owners. Both are intense and driven competitors. RP has just been at it a lot longer ... I'm betting you'll be constantly closing the gap (and they know it!). Oh, and you're not doing it wrong, just differently and who knows, perhaps better.
I respect what you are saying- he started with one store too.
08-16-2017, 12:27 AM
#184
As another decade long member, I've moved from enthusiast to employee during my time on RL. I've been with a few dealers over the last 7 years or so wth Porsche in various capacities. I love to help fellow enthusiasts but it's becoming more and more difficult on here. I guess I just don't have the patience (for Internet forums) that I used to.
08-16-2017, 12:30 AM
#185
As another decade long member, I've moved from enthusiast to employee during my time on RL. I've been with a few dealers over the last 7 years or so wth Porsche in various capacities. I love to help fellow enthusiasts but it's becoming more and more difficult on here. I guess I just don't have the patience (for Internet forums) that I used to.
08-16-2017, 01:39 PM
#186
Martin - ok.. now I think I understand why you're Porsche Fresno’s biggest cheerleader. If I believed I was buying a GT3RS for “$20K-$40K less than actual market pricing,” I too would think all other dealers are “stealerships.” The problem with that equation — if it’s true — is that it also means that CJ paid the owner of that GT3RS "$20K-$40K less than actual market pricing.”
08-16-2017, 03:04 PM
#187
Whew! With some of my recent posts, I was afraid I might get the Rennlilst douche of the year award for 2017, but I think Chicago Whale locked that up with the tone of his posts in this thread.
08-16-2017, 05:28 PM
#188
Rennlist Member
This thread is much to do about nothing. We can complain all we like but it will not change the GT system. Having a very limited number of allocations with a huge demand is sure to anger many good Porsche customers. That's why the GT system has to be managed by each dealer according to his needs and priorities. Personally I think its unfair to attack any dealer for his/her practices when it involves GT allocations.
Coming from the Ferrari world, I understand Porsche dealers dilemma. There are times I wonder whether dealers think its worth the hassle to sell a couple of GT cars and in the process **** off so many good customers. Thus, the reason why dealers follow what is best for them because whatever they do they will have many angry clients.
Coming from the Ferrari world, I understand Porsche dealers dilemma. There are times I wonder whether dealers think its worth the hassle to sell a couple of GT cars and in the process **** off so many good customers. Thus, the reason why dealers follow what is best for them because whatever they do they will have many angry clients.
08-16-2017, 06:03 PM
#189
Race Car
I don't care how they do the allocations as long as dealers are transparent and honest. I think it is mostly the lies and broken promises that **** people off. I am not so entitled that I think I deserve an allocation but when I come to an arrangement with a dealer I expect them to stick to it. Honesty and integrity has not been my experience. YMMV
Tal
Tal
08-16-2017, 06:12 PM
#190
I don't care how they do the allocations as long as dealers are transparent and honest. I think it is mostly the lies and broken promises that **** people off. I am not so entitled that I think I deserve an allocation but when I come to an arrangement with a dealer I expect them to stick to it. Honesty and integrity has not been my experience. YMMV
Tal
Tal
Don't tell me I'm number 2 on your list, then after you get 7 allocations, I'm number pi on your list. Don't tell me you always sell at MSRP, but when you get an allocation for me, there is an ADM because "we don't want to leave money on the table and you should be lucky as all other dealerships are charging an even higher ADM."
How's this for a start; tell me the truth. And, I can put my big boy pants on to make a decision.
And, please, whatever it takes, do not ever explain the laws of Supply v. Demand.
Last edited by mass27; 08-16-2017 at 06:38 PM.
08-16-2017, 07:45 PM
#191
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Most of the complaints, including some personally, are directed more towards the honesty and transparency of dealerships, not their "GT allocation system" (which has already been proven that it is biased).
Don't tell me I'm number 2 on your list, then after you get 7 allocations, I'm number pi on your list. Don't tell me you always sell at MSRP, but when you get an allocation for me, there is an ADM because "we don't want to leave money on the table and you should be lucky as all other dealerships are charging an even higher ADM."
How's this for a start; tell me the truth. And, I can put my big boy pants on to make a decision.
And, please, whatever it takes, do not ever explain the laws of Supply v. Demand.
Don't tell me I'm number 2 on your list, then after you get 7 allocations, I'm number pi on your list. Don't tell me you always sell at MSRP, but when you get an allocation for me, there is an ADM because "we don't want to leave money on the table and you should be lucky as all other dealerships are charging an even higher ADM."
How's this for a start; tell me the truth. And, I can put my big boy pants on to make a decision.
And, please, whatever it takes, do not ever explain the laws of Supply v. Demand.
I don't care how they do the allocations as long as dealers are transparent and honest. I think it is mostly the lies and broken promises that **** people off. I am not so entitled that I think I deserve an allocation but when I come to an arrangement with a dealer I expect them to stick to it. Honesty and integrity has not been my experience. YMMV
Tal
Tal
08-16-2017, 10:07 PM
#194
I don't post often, but I read almost every thread on Rennlist. Just my $.02.
C.J. Ichiban: Is this the real C.J. Wilson? I saw you on Jay Leno's Garage a few weeks back and you seem like a nice guy. I have read most of your posts on Rennlist. Thanks for taking the time to post and for all of your information. I live in Pennsylvania and I'm never going to afford a GT car, but I still like learning about how Porsche allocates cars and hearing about your racing business and being a car dealer. Some people are going to be haters, but I appreciate the information. So thanks.
Eduardo: I have followed your posts for the past few years about paint to sample. I also liked reading about your PTS GT3 experience. My wife says there is a 1% chance I'm going to win the PowerBall tonight, and when I do, I'm ordering an Irish Green GT4 with an espresso natural leather interior, PCCB, and sofa seats. So thanks for the information over the past few years. It will be 1 of 1, and no one will ever want to buy it from me.
ChicagoWhale: Thanks for giving an alternative viewpoint. It seems like you're an insider with Porsche, and I appreciate what you have to say. I think we would all appreciate any other useful information you could provide the forum. Also, if you could convince Porsche to make Irish Green a standard color on the upcoming GT4, I would appreciate it.
usctrojanGT3: I could do without your posts, but that's just because you're a USC fan, so I automatically deduct 20 I.Q. points.
Now that's funny!
Just my $.02. Maybe less vitriol over selling and buying $150k-$500k sports cars, otherwise, you might just look like really wealthy people arguing over who has the biggest/newest/shiniest/flipped/non-flipped/unique ________.
C.J. Ichiban: Is this the real C.J. Wilson? I saw you on Jay Leno's Garage a few weeks back and you seem like a nice guy. I have read most of your posts on Rennlist. Thanks for taking the time to post and for all of your information. I live in Pennsylvania and I'm never going to afford a GT car, but I still like learning about how Porsche allocates cars and hearing about your racing business and being a car dealer. Some people are going to be haters, but I appreciate the information. So thanks.
Eduardo: I have followed your posts for the past few years about paint to sample. I also liked reading about your PTS GT3 experience. My wife says there is a 1% chance I'm going to win the PowerBall tonight, and when I do, I'm ordering an Irish Green GT4 with an espresso natural leather interior, PCCB, and sofa seats. So thanks for the information over the past few years. It will be 1 of 1, and no one will ever want to buy it from me.
ChicagoWhale: Thanks for giving an alternative viewpoint. It seems like you're an insider with Porsche, and I appreciate what you have to say. I think we would all appreciate any other useful information you could provide the forum. Also, if you could convince Porsche to make Irish Green a standard color on the upcoming GT4, I would appreciate it.
usctrojanGT3: I could do without your posts, but that's just because you're a USC fan, so I automatically deduct 20 I.Q. points.
Now that's funny!Just my $.02. Maybe less vitriol over selling and buying $150k-$500k sports cars, otherwise, you might just look like really wealthy people arguing over who has the biggest/newest/shiniest/flipped/non-flipped/unique ________.
08-16-2017, 10:24 PM
#195
Race Car
I don't post often, but I read almost every thread on Rennlist. Just my $.02.
C.J. Ichiban: Is this the real C.J. Wilson? I saw you on Jay Leno's Garage a few weeks back and you seem like a nice guy. I have read most of your posts on Rennlist. Thanks for taking the time to post and for all of your information. I live in Pennsylvania and I'm never going to afford a GT car, but I still like learning about how Porsche allocates cars and hearing about your racing business and being a car dealer. Some people are going to be haters, but I appreciate the information. So thanks.
Eduardo: I have followed your posts for the past few years about paint to sample. I also liked reading about your PTS GT3 experience. My wife says there is a 1% chance I'm going to win the PowerBall tonight, and when I do, I'm ordering an Irish Green GT4 with an espresso natural leather interior, PCCB, and sofa seats. So thanks for the information over the past few years. It will be 1 of 1, and no one will ever want to buy it from me.
ChicagoWhale: Thanks for giving an alternative viewpoint. It seems like you're an insider with Porsche, and I appreciate what you have to say. I think we would all appreciate any other useful information you could provide the forum. Also, if you could convince Porsche to make Irish Green a standard color on the upcoming GT4, I would appreciate it.
usctrojanGT3: I could do without your posts, but that's just because you're a USC fan, so I automatically deduct 20 I.Q. points. Now that's funny!
Just my $.02. Maybe less vitriol over selling and buying $150k-$500k sports cars, otherwise, you might just look like really wealthy people arguing over who has the biggest/newest/shiniest/flipped/non-flipped/unique ________.
C.J. Ichiban: Is this the real C.J. Wilson? I saw you on Jay Leno's Garage a few weeks back and you seem like a nice guy. I have read most of your posts on Rennlist. Thanks for taking the time to post and for all of your information. I live in Pennsylvania and I'm never going to afford a GT car, but I still like learning about how Porsche allocates cars and hearing about your racing business and being a car dealer. Some people are going to be haters, but I appreciate the information. So thanks.
Eduardo: I have followed your posts for the past few years about paint to sample. I also liked reading about your PTS GT3 experience. My wife says there is a 1% chance I'm going to win the PowerBall tonight, and when I do, I'm ordering an Irish Green GT4 with an espresso natural leather interior, PCCB, and sofa seats. So thanks for the information over the past few years. It will be 1 of 1, and no one will ever want to buy it from me.
ChicagoWhale: Thanks for giving an alternative viewpoint. It seems like you're an insider with Porsche, and I appreciate what you have to say. I think we would all appreciate any other useful information you could provide the forum. Also, if you could convince Porsche to make Irish Green a standard color on the upcoming GT4, I would appreciate it.
usctrojanGT3: I could do without your posts, but that's just because you're a USC fan, so I automatically deduct 20 I.Q. points.
Now that's funny!Just my $.02. Maybe less vitriol over selling and buying $150k-$500k sports cars, otherwise, you might just look like really wealthy people arguing over who has the biggest/newest/shiniest/flipped/non-flipped/unique ________.
Tal