Stealer 991.2 GT3 Listing on Rennlist
08-11-2017, 09:19 PM
#136
Drifting
I just call it as is and some people on here can't handle that, oh well. I give props to good dealers and bash stealers and will continue to do so. You can say anything that you want about me, good or bad, but I'm a passionate car guy who spends his hard earned money on cars and like to voice my opinions. Good dealers deserve more business and stealers should lose business, simple as that. When the market turns, the good dealers will be rewarded and the stealers will be punished. One thing that I appreciate in all of my business dealing is FULL TRANSPARENCY. I never know how hard it was to spend my money until I wanted to buy a new Porsche. haha The thing that I found funny was when people called me a whiner who'll never buy an RS when I was updating my RS pricing thread...we all know how that ended. Luckily for me, I have found a good guy dealers who are a pleasure to work with and treat me right so I'm thankful for that. 
Good dealers build bridges bad dealers burn them and then there is those dealers who blow them up.
Anyway good luck playing with the JV team hiding behind a screen name obviously you struck a nerve - impressive
08-11-2017, 09:28 PM
#137
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
You summarized it clearly with what I have at the top of my signature, awesome quote to live by. 
08-12-2017, 10:12 AM
#138
Burning Brakes
Is this the same Martin that posted positive comments about Porsche Frenso ? And also more positive comments about Brent also...
I don't know any of these guys but seems to me the positive come about when there are positive experiences.
I don't know any of these guys but seems to me the positive come about when there are positive experiences.
In 2016, Porsche produced 31,648 911’s and 24,882 Boxster/Cayman’s. This compares to 97,177 Macans and 71,693 Cayennes. These are production numbers for the entire year, not deliveries despite the fact that many people use them interchangeably.
Good morning Martin - Your recent silence on the topic of this thread is well noted; I only hope it continues going forward. Rather than slinging daily insults at Porsche dealers and PCNA, hopefully you can take that negative energy and channel it into something productive and positive. Hope you have a nice weekend.
Good morning Martin - Your recent silence on the topic of this thread is well noted; I only hope it continues going forward. Rather than slinging daily insults at Porsche dealers and PCNA, hopefully you can take that negative energy and channel it into something productive and positive. Hope you have a nice weekend.
08-12-2017, 01:50 PM
#140
Rennlist Member
Nope that won't fix it either.
The ONLY real solution is to wave a magic wand right now and have ALL GT cars follow a typical, rational, fact based, financially supported depreciation curve - you know like 99% of all other cars since the inception of financial matrices.
What will that do?
1. You buy a GT car, it depreciates 10-15% right off the lot.
2. Eliminate 95% of flippers.
3. Drastically reduces the people who buy a GT car thinking it is depreciation-proof.
4. Most people who want a GT car will be able to get one.
The ONLY real solution is to wave a magic wand right now and have ALL GT cars follow a typical, rational, fact based, financially supported depreciation curve - you know like 99% of all other cars since the inception of financial matrices.
What will that do?
1. You buy a GT car, it depreciates 10-15% right off the lot.
2. Eliminate 95% of flippers.
3. Drastically reduces the people who buy a GT car thinking it is depreciation-proof.
4. Most people who want a GT car will be able to get one.
I'm not a flipper but I have no issue buying a GT car at MSRP because ownership cost for the few years I'll have it before trying to get another one is negligible.
P-GT cars are sweet, but for the performance only aspect I actually think they are a touch overpriced. Give me the same depreciation curve on a P-GT as a McLaren, I might actually buy a 570 or maybe a 720 because those cars are way faster, especially in a straight line, than a GT3.
08-12-2017, 02:10 PM
#141
Platinum Dealership
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
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Originally Posted by 81911
It's funny seeing your name on PPN.
Glad to have you!
Glad to have you!
08-12-2017, 02:49 PM
#142
Rennlist Member
the bottom line here is many of us are tired of the auction whorehouse mentality out there when it comes to buying a GT car, those who can afford it can shop elsewhere when irritated, the solution is simple, increase supply, this will likely also increase profits for PAG, I also challenge the notion of "they know what they are doing, this is all part of a marketing strategy" I dont think so, I think there is such a big disconnect between the US and mothership in Germany that somethings are just confused, think of the PTS issues x 1000
08-12-2017, 03:48 PM
#143
I posted up on PPN on that very issue....I know Porsche thinks I am
Not holding my breathe we will get a single car...but hey great news we got 25 books to hand out!
08-12-2017, 05:18 PM
#144
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
08-13-2017, 11:18 AM
#145
Rennlist Member
Yes, I will continue to post positive things about Porsche Fresno, Porsche North Houston, Sonnen, and Park Place as I have done business with all of them and personally know that they are good guy dealers. I'll sound like a broken records but I'll saying the same thing....good guy dealers deserve to get more and more business (hopefully from lost business from stealers).
08-13-2017, 12:56 PM
#146
Race Director
08-13-2017, 12:59 PM
#147
Race Director
Yes, I will continue to post positive things about Porsche Fresno, Porsche North Houston, Sonnen, and Park Place as I have done business with all of them and personally know that they are good guy dealers. I'll sound like a broken records but I'll saying the same thing....good guy dealers deserve to get more and more business (hopefully from lost business from stealers).
My local Tampa dealers are horrible on various levels...Champion Porsche which is 3 hrs from me has treated my wife and I great on price and buying experience with last 2 Porsches.
08-13-2017, 02:25 PM
#148
Racer
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Chicago, NYC, Zurich
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Good evening!
I was going to ask this under the recent Fresno thread, but I wanted to be respectful of the gentleman who took delivery of the Mexico Blue 991R. That truly is a fantastic car (the matching spyder, too) and I hope he enjoys it.
That being said, I do have a question.
About a year ago, one of the very first 9111R's to be flipped was listed on consignment at Broward. Everyone involved -- the dealer flipping it, the 918 VIP buyer selling it, and the potential buyer of it -- were vilified in this forum. Everyone was outraged that someone was flipping their 991R.
Now, Fresno appears to flip a Paint to Sample 911R that was delivered new not too long ago, and everyone here on the forum applauds the transaction. Clearly, there were only a very small handful of individuals who were given PTS allocations on a 911R. In fact, some 911R owners were told it wasn't even possible on the R. To see an individual FLIP a PTS 911R bring even more gravity to the transaction.
What's the difference? Is the difference that Fresno supposedly did it for free? So if the dealer (or whoever the middle man is) doesn't make any money on it, everything's fine? Additionally, I thought PCNA really frowns on dealers and owners flipping the R's. The original owner of that Mexico Blue R will get kicked out of the program over this.
So why are there two starkly different reactions to a 911R being flipped?
On a different subject... Martin... you mentioned that you felt proud if people put you on ignore. I just don't understand how someone could be proud of that.
I was going to ask this under the recent Fresno thread, but I wanted to be respectful of the gentleman who took delivery of the Mexico Blue 991R. That truly is a fantastic car (the matching spyder, too) and I hope he enjoys it.
That being said, I do have a question.
About a year ago, one of the very first 9111R's to be flipped was listed on consignment at Broward. Everyone involved -- the dealer flipping it, the 918 VIP buyer selling it, and the potential buyer of it -- were vilified in this forum. Everyone was outraged that someone was flipping their 991R.
Now, Fresno appears to flip a Paint to Sample 911R that was delivered new not too long ago, and everyone here on the forum applauds the transaction. Clearly, there were only a very small handful of individuals who were given PTS allocations on a 911R. In fact, some 911R owners were told it wasn't even possible on the R. To see an individual FLIP a PTS 911R bring even more gravity to the transaction.
What's the difference? Is the difference that Fresno supposedly did it for free? So if the dealer (or whoever the middle man is) doesn't make any money on it, everything's fine? Additionally, I thought PCNA really frowns on dealers and owners flipping the R's. The original owner of that Mexico Blue R will get kicked out of the program over this.
So why are there two starkly different reactions to a 911R being flipped?
On a different subject... Martin... you mentioned that you felt proud if people put you on ignore. I just don't understand how someone could be proud of that.
08-13-2017, 02:51 PM
#149
Rennlist Member
I really like to meet usctrogan and Ichiban someday. They sound like great guys from what Mooty has mentioned. I really don't understand the argument here. I've had great experiences with sonnen/stead. What's bad about saying certain dealerships are not quite up to par? Mike
08-13-2017, 03:30 PM
#150
Race Director
Originally Posted by ChicagoWhale
Good evening!
I was going to ask this under the recent Fresno thread, but I wanted to be respectful of the gentleman who took delivery of the Mexico Blue 991R. That truly is a fantastic car (the matching spyder, too) and I hope he enjoys it.
That being said, I do have a question.
About a year ago, one of the very first 9111R's to be flipped was listed on consignment at Broward. Everyone involved -- the dealer flipping it, the 918 VIP buyer selling it, and the potential buyer of it -- were vilified in this forum. Everyone was outraged that someone was flipping their 991R.
Now, Fresno appears to flip a Paint to Sample 911R that was delivered new not too long ago, and everyone here on the forum applauds the transaction. Clearly, there were only a very small handful of individuals who were given PTS allocations on a 911R. In fact, some 911R owners were told it wasn't even possible on the R. To see an individual FLIP a PTS 911R bring even more gravity to the transaction.
What's the difference? Is the difference that Fresno supposedly did it for free? So if the dealer (or whoever the middle man is) doesn't make any money on it, everything's fine? Additionally, I thought PCNA really frowns on dealers and owners flipping the R's. The original owner of that Mexico Blue R will get kicked out of the program over this.
So why are there two starkly different reactions to a 911R being flipped?
On a different subject... Martin... you mentioned that you felt proud if people put you on ignore. I just don't understand how someone could be proud of that.
I was going to ask this under the recent Fresno thread, but I wanted to be respectful of the gentleman who took delivery of the Mexico Blue 991R. That truly is a fantastic car (the matching spyder, too) and I hope he enjoys it.
That being said, I do have a question.
About a year ago, one of the very first 9111R's to be flipped was listed on consignment at Broward. Everyone involved -- the dealer flipping it, the 918 VIP buyer selling it, and the potential buyer of it -- were vilified in this forum. Everyone was outraged that someone was flipping their 991R.
Now, Fresno appears to flip a Paint to Sample 911R that was delivered new not too long ago, and everyone here on the forum applauds the transaction. Clearly, there were only a very small handful of individuals who were given PTS allocations on a 911R. In fact, some 911R owners were told it wasn't even possible on the R. To see an individual FLIP a PTS 911R bring even more gravity to the transaction.
What's the difference? Is the difference that Fresno supposedly did it for free? So if the dealer (or whoever the middle man is) doesn't make any money on it, everything's fine? Additionally, I thought PCNA really frowns on dealers and owners flipping the R's. The original owner of that Mexico Blue R will get kicked out of the program over this.
So why are there two starkly different reactions to a 911R being flipped?
On a different subject... Martin... you mentioned that you felt proud if people put you on ignore. I just don't understand how someone could be proud of that.
In the specific example of the 911R flip.. the reactions came more from people who felt indignant or scorned by Porsche.. it sort of a populist sentiment .. we all become angry masses when we find out there is an elite level above our own.. it's human nature. Now that the myth of 911R as some wunderkind has dissipated, people feel "special" again knowing they can buy a GT3 which performs similarly or better to the VIP-only 911R, so people lose their rage and passion about the subject and move on to the next sore point.
You can try to find the logic, or just roll with the punches, buy the car you are able to buy.. and then come sling some mud with the rest of us when you get angry. lots of "wunderkind" unobtanium metal coming down the pike for sure..
Hope the above makes sense.. overall message is not to question the logic of an Internet forum and just have fun with it.
Come to pebble beach, a bunch of us will hang out and try to press the ignore button on each other. I won't even have a Porsche, I'll be in a mclaren.. watch how much people will press the ignore button on me then!!! (Below is a visualization of the sequence of what happens to people when they first join this forum, and then after awhile on here how we lose our sanity.. it's quite representative).
