F1CrazyDriver

Just like everything 1) Technology will catch up 2) We will adjust.
I wrote a economic thesis when at the University of the economics of all forms of combustion motor, including electric.
We took into consideration every single resource from Well to Pump : A -Z - If i recall ( it's been 10 years) Natural Gas was the most effective Well-Pump per mile when consumed by i.e consumers/business - taking into consideration ALL resources for the energy usage of that mile per gallon. With an exception. States like Washington that at that time 75% of their electricity was coming from renewable energy. My, have times changed. Solar , Wind all forms of renewable energy has exponentially grown

Lastly it's of my opinion that we're to focus on the infrastructure in delivery of electricity from "well" to the consumer, as a lot of energy loss in that. Anyways - lets not go further off topic.

996AE

Social engineering from BIG Brother. After all they know best!

NateOZ

Depletion deductions that you can credit against AMT and MLPs cost far more than the EV/Hybrid vehicle incentive.

DC911S

Until we get a common plug and common charging system, that can be used by all car manufacturers or at least most of them.....it's not happening. It's been tried many times in the ASAE but the deal falls apart. Hate to say it but it might take federal action to have a common plug and charger by say...2030...

white6speed

This will be like VHS vs Betamax until the wizards figure out there will only be 1 format globally. If the gov't gets involved we should look for 200 mile extension cords.

Archimedes

I think you're forgetting the $7,500 tax subsidies allocated to every car sold. Tesla still has some of those. Also, IIRC, they are still making some money from selling pollution credits, and I just read yesterday that California is planning to extend that program when it sunsets in a couple of years.

Archimedes

Didn't say it was uncomfortable per se, just that, once you strip away the EV powertrain advantages (cost/quiet/60 ft. acceleration), which I put zero value on, it's an otherwise very bland, meh car IMO. It's basically a Ford Fusion in terms of looks and finish out. I could never pay extra for that. I recently sat in a Model X and was shocked at how poor the finish out is on that thing as well; can not imagine why someone would pay six figures plus for that thing. Cool looking, but everything has a really cheap feel to it, like a toy car. Nothing like sitting in a Panamera.

Like I said, I get why some people like them. And why some don't.

NateOZ

Cost to lease a fully/similarly optioned new Panamera Hybrid is $1900, cost to lease a fully optioned new Model S 90D is $980. Despite the upfront price, one costs about twice as much to own. Service costs is half as much on the Tesla as well.

I backed out of my Panamera order today as it's a very tough value proposition when I'll spend less than 2,000 miles/year in the car.

ChoyV

I have nothing against EV! For me, let the public decide on which car to drive but don't level the playing field with EV tax credit or whatsoever.

F1CrazyDriver

I honestly do not mean this in a bad way or bad intention however i have looked inside the car and to my eyes i failed to see this therefore since you're local to me it would be great if we could meet sometime at Alice's and you could show me.Again I don't mean this in a bad way, just would like to see what others see that i don't see.


p.s. my fully loaded tesla S (minus pano roof) was short 105 IIRC, Pana is 180+ fully loaded.

996AE

Big Brother giveth and taketh away!

Mostly just take if you are one of the fortunate to pay taxes to support those who dont!

redgt3

its happening
Volvo have stated no ICE only cars from 2019 - 2 years away!

CAlexio

I thought there was a common plug?.. I've been trying the energica motors electric motorcycle helping out their entry into the USA market, and we stop at quickcharge spots next to the Chevy bolts and volts and Nissan leafs and charge up. I think only tesla is on a separate one.

PantsFire

Take away government subsides and support for Fracking and the industry becomes nonviable unless oil goes above $100 a barrel, then OPEC will hold oil just below Fracking Viability and the cost of filling your tank doubles.

Sure electric vehicles get subsidies but with good reason, an eye on the future; just like the oil industry gets subsidies to guarantee energy independence; hell coal is getting subsidised because... idiocy.

I, for one, look forward to a largely electric future where cities are quieter and all you can smell is the farts and BO! Then us lot in our, then, classics can roar through town and bring back the fun!

Archimedes

It's just taste. I don't find the materials in the Tesla to be very luxurious. They feel more Honda than Mercedes. And things like when you slam the doors, they don't give that solid feel like slamming the door of a Panamera. And the seats just look and feel cheap to me compared to the other luxury sedans. Again, may just be different tastes.

What isn't a taste issue is the back seat room. I would never be able to buy any sedan/SUV, etc. where a full grown man of 6'1"+ could not sit comfortably and the back seat of the Model S doesn't allow that. Feels like a coffin back there, while the back seat of the Panny is awesomely comfortable. Even the back seat of my A6 was luxurious compared to my buddy's Model S (P85D).

And the last Panny could easily be had in the lower $100s, particularly later in the cycle. A decently equipped 4S can be priced out at $140ish now as well, so they're not that far apart. But I think the new Panny is on a completely different level than the Model S in terms of the overall package.

If anyone builds a great car that just happens to be electric, I'll be interested. I'm hopeful, given some of the designs that appear to be on the horizon, but I will wait and see how they actually perform and how they're priced.