3 reasons why a choose a Manual over a PDK
03-18-2017, 01:38 PM
#61
03-20-2017, 10:18 AM
#62
I'm used to better manual transmissions, like the Graziano, with rod linkages, not a cable one, like on Porsches. And that the shifter is rubbery is far from just my opinion; most testers have expressed the same opinion (except on GT cars). The good news is it's rubbery, but very precise.
Driver 2. Really and your car must have pretty quick gear changes..
Driver 1. Yes it does but the PDk is a pile of sh*ite
Driver 2. And what is your name again...
Driver 1. Sebastian Vettel
03-20-2017, 11:19 AM
#63
You think Ol' Sebastian is working the discreet gates of the trademark shifter over at Scuderia Ferrari? If you gave him a car so outfitted do you think he could back his smack by shifting faster than PDK with his polished heel / toe technique?
03-20-2017, 12:59 PM
#64
I mean, why would anyone compare the manual to a racing manual gear box... you would have to be a total Tw*t.
03-20-2017, 01:10 PM
#65
Ah, I didn't get that from your post at all! My former almost father in law was a former Porche dealer and self proclaimed factory racer (no photos or documents offered). Anyhow he was 100% German and also 100% ********, so there's that.
03-20-2017, 02:32 PM
#66
He probably doesn't even know how to do that. Ha ha. And those comments are irrelevant anyway, since nobody in their right mind would argue that PDK shifts much quicker than a manual Cayman.
03-21-2017, 08:55 PM
#67
Mark Webber prefers PDK - hes said it numerous times 
the last time being at the launch of the 991.2 GT3.
I'm ambivalent about the Porsche manual box, its clearly cable linked and is rubbery compared to the rod actuated box in one of my cars. In fact the pedals aren't ideally set up for road use - they are better aligned for the aggressive braking found on track (I have been able to flat shift and heel and toe for over thirty years). Why would you FS or HnT on public roads - I do on track, but not on public roads.
PDK does everything better - its more flexible, in manual mode upshifts are equivalent of flat shifts and down shifts are perfectly executed heel and toe changes - except very fast. With SC, in D mode, you get max power under the curve for every gear.
Citing maintenance or weight as issues to purchase a manual is largely nonsense (a) you are more likely to over rev/ money shift in a the manual with consequences for the diff/box/engine - particularly on track (b) PDK equipped cars clearly out perform manuals (c) the PDK and manual box are one in the same (largely).
Its interesting to note how many PDK owners are converts from manuals (I voted with my wallet both my current 981 GTS and 991.2 C2S are equipped with PDK)
the last time being at the launch of the 991.2 GT3. I'm ambivalent about the Porsche manual box, its clearly cable linked and is rubbery compared to the rod actuated box in one of my cars. In fact the pedals aren't ideally set up for road use - they are better aligned for the aggressive braking found on track (I have been able to flat shift and heel and toe for over thirty years). Why would you FS or HnT on public roads - I do on track, but not on public roads.
PDK does everything better - its more flexible, in manual mode upshifts are equivalent of flat shifts and down shifts are perfectly executed heel and toe changes - except very fast. With SC, in D mode, you get max power under the curve for every gear.
Citing maintenance or weight as issues to purchase a manual is largely nonsense (a) you are more likely to over rev/ money shift in a the manual with consequences for the diff/box/engine - particularly on track (b) PDK equipped cars clearly out perform manuals (c) the PDK and manual box are one in the same (largely).
Its interesting to note how many PDK owners are converts from manuals
(I voted with my wallet both my current 981 GTS and 991.2 C2S are equipped with PDK)
03-21-2017, 10:58 PM
#68
Can't drive a stick, but do have my 3rd gen is350 to compare my Boxster s pdk to. While Lexus doesn't use anything like a DCT, their 8speed transmission got great reviews. The Porsche pdk makes the Lexus 8 speed look like a toy.
The pdk literally shifts as fast as I can pull the paddle. It also will drop from 6th gear into 2nd if I floor it.
The pdk is a definite impressive transmission!
The pdk literally shifts as fast as I can pull the paddle. It also will drop from 6th gear into 2nd if I floor it.
The pdk is a definite impressive transmission!
03-22-2017, 06:18 AM
#69
EVO Magazine Provided this ; http://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/911/133...vs-pdk-gearbox
Porsche 991 Manual vs PDK gearbox
"As so much of the ‘stick or paddle’ debate is based on subjectivity, we’ve brought two Porsche 911s together at the Bedford Autodrome to see what a VBOX can add to the argument. Both are Carreras, one with a seven-speed manual, the other a seven-speed PDK. Despite our best efforts, the precise spec of the cars is not otherwise identical, the manual car (Mexico Blue) boasting Porsche Torque Vectoring, 20in Carrera S wheels, PASM Sport suspension and PCCB brakes, while the PDK car (Pastel Orange) has 19in Carrera alloys, passive damping and cast-iron brakes. Although this means lap times won’t be directly comparable, it should have minimal effect on straight-line acceleration. And, of course, it’ll be fascinating to make a back-to-back subjective comparison of the physical process of driving each car.
First up, the standing-start acceleration runs. In the PDK car, launch control makes it laughably easy, the system permitting zero wheelspin but using a fraction of clutch-slip to prevent the 3.4-litre flat-six bogging down. It’s remarkably drama-free, and the upshifts are fully automated.
We do one run in each direction to achieve a two-way average. There’s only four hundredths of a second variance at 60mph, 4.49sec in one direction, 4.53 in the other for a 4.51sec average, beating Porsche’s 0-62mph claim by 0.09sec, despite a full tank and two occupants.
The manual car is trickier to launch, as there’s just my quivering clutch foot and eager throttle foot to juggle revs and traction. I can’t match the precision of PDK’s clutch control, so the launch is more aggressive. There’s a bit of axle tramp as the tyres skip with just enough wheelspin, but then, as they bite, the engine falls off cam for a split second before hauling hard once more. I’m pleased to say I nail every upshift, but there’s perceptible torque interruption even though I’m moving my left foot and left hand as quickly as they’ll go.
The best two runs in opposite directions (we do three pairs in total) yield a 4.75sec and 4.81 for a 4.78sec 0-60mph average. Porsche claims 4.8 to 62, so I’m happy, but PDK has proved its mettle.
A look at the acceleration traces from the VBOX is fascinating. You can clearly see the drop and then spike back up again for the manual (over the two fastest runs it was consistently about 0.3sec from the drop to the beginning of the rise back up), whereas the PDK actually surges and accelerates slightly harder as it changes, then drops back down to its previous level of G, but never below it. Effectively the PDK never stops accelerating.
Thanks to the spec differences, the lap time element is less definitive, but no less revealing. Or indeed, depressing. We do two sets of laps in the PDK car, one where it does all the up and downshifts, another where I make the calls. It’s bizarrely unsettling and hard to find your rhythm when attempting a fast lap while operating only steering wheel, throttle and brake. You also have to fight the urge to intervene with a short-shift or by holding a gear a fraction longer. The lap is calm, and feels effective yet unexceptional. It’s only when I repeat the process with the added task of flipping the paddles myself that the truth is revealed…
Put simply, human brains – or mine at any rate – don’t respond so well when asked to multi-task. Mistakes begin to creep in, apexes and braking points are fractionally missed, shift decisions are made that don’t maximise the available torque. In short, the laps are scruffy by comparison, a fact reflected in a 1:23.8 best in full auto mode versus a 1:24.3 with me flapping the paddles.
Lapping the manual car is less scientific: just jump in and try to nail a good one. It handles quite differently, thanks to its more substantial rubber and Porsche Torque Vectoring, but it’s the contrast in the experience of extracting a fast time that’s especially telling. Instead of eerie calm, it takes real concentration and focus to consistently match ratios, revs and road speed while finding the best line and making steering corrections. No wonder I can really feel the adrenalin start to pump. It’s more urgent, more physical, more challenging and significantly more enjoyable.
I have no doubt a PDK car with the same detail specification would lap quicker than the manual car’s 1:23.6 best, but I’m equally certain it wouldn’t be anywhere near as satisfying. Stirring a gearstick and pumping a clutch pedal is terribly quaint and 20th century. Yet the manual transmission has a timeless appeal and enduring tactility that when done well can still render modern technology cold and charmless. One thing’s for damned sure, we’ll miss them when they’re gone."
Hope that finally clears this up.
So basically if you want to go faster and have a totally cold and charmless driving experience then get the PDK.
If you want an adrenalin pumped, challenging, rewarding and significantly more enjoyable driving experience then get the MANUAL.
I know which one i would go for everytime...
No Further Questions Your Honour....
Porsche 991 Manual vs PDK gearbox
"As so much of the ‘stick or paddle’ debate is based on subjectivity, we’ve brought two Porsche 911s together at the Bedford Autodrome to see what a VBOX can add to the argument. Both are Carreras, one with a seven-speed manual, the other a seven-speed PDK. Despite our best efforts, the precise spec of the cars is not otherwise identical, the manual car (Mexico Blue) boasting Porsche Torque Vectoring, 20in Carrera S wheels, PASM Sport suspension and PCCB brakes, while the PDK car (Pastel Orange) has 19in Carrera alloys, passive damping and cast-iron brakes. Although this means lap times won’t be directly comparable, it should have minimal effect on straight-line acceleration. And, of course, it’ll be fascinating to make a back-to-back subjective comparison of the physical process of driving each car.
First up, the standing-start acceleration runs. In the PDK car, launch control makes it laughably easy, the system permitting zero wheelspin but using a fraction of clutch-slip to prevent the 3.4-litre flat-six bogging down. It’s remarkably drama-free, and the upshifts are fully automated.
We do one run in each direction to achieve a two-way average. There’s only four hundredths of a second variance at 60mph, 4.49sec in one direction, 4.53 in the other for a 4.51sec average, beating Porsche’s 0-62mph claim by 0.09sec, despite a full tank and two occupants.
The manual car is trickier to launch, as there’s just my quivering clutch foot and eager throttle foot to juggle revs and traction. I can’t match the precision of PDK’s clutch control, so the launch is more aggressive. There’s a bit of axle tramp as the tyres skip with just enough wheelspin, but then, as they bite, the engine falls off cam for a split second before hauling hard once more. I’m pleased to say I nail every upshift, but there’s perceptible torque interruption even though I’m moving my left foot and left hand as quickly as they’ll go.
The best two runs in opposite directions (we do three pairs in total) yield a 4.75sec and 4.81 for a 4.78sec 0-60mph average. Porsche claims 4.8 to 62, so I’m happy, but PDK has proved its mettle.
A look at the acceleration traces from the VBOX is fascinating. You can clearly see the drop and then spike back up again for the manual (over the two fastest runs it was consistently about 0.3sec from the drop to the beginning of the rise back up), whereas the PDK actually surges and accelerates slightly harder as it changes, then drops back down to its previous level of G, but never below it. Effectively the PDK never stops accelerating.
Thanks to the spec differences, the lap time element is less definitive, but no less revealing. Or indeed, depressing. We do two sets of laps in the PDK car, one where it does all the up and downshifts, another where I make the calls. It’s bizarrely unsettling and hard to find your rhythm when attempting a fast lap while operating only steering wheel, throttle and brake. You also have to fight the urge to intervene with a short-shift or by holding a gear a fraction longer. The lap is calm, and feels effective yet unexceptional. It’s only when I repeat the process with the added task of flipping the paddles myself that the truth is revealed…
Put simply, human brains – or mine at any rate – don’t respond so well when asked to multi-task. Mistakes begin to creep in, apexes and braking points are fractionally missed, shift decisions are made that don’t maximise the available torque. In short, the laps are scruffy by comparison, a fact reflected in a 1:23.8 best in full auto mode versus a 1:24.3 with me flapping the paddles.
Lapping the manual car is less scientific: just jump in and try to nail a good one. It handles quite differently, thanks to its more substantial rubber and Porsche Torque Vectoring, but it’s the contrast in the experience of extracting a fast time that’s especially telling. Instead of eerie calm, it takes real concentration and focus to consistently match ratios, revs and road speed while finding the best line and making steering corrections. No wonder I can really feel the adrenalin start to pump. It’s more urgent, more physical, more challenging and significantly more enjoyable.
I have no doubt a PDK car with the same detail specification would lap quicker than the manual car’s 1:23.6 best, but I’m equally certain it wouldn’t be anywhere near as satisfying. Stirring a gearstick and pumping a clutch pedal is terribly quaint and 20th century. Yet the manual transmission has a timeless appeal and enduring tactility that when done well can still render modern technology cold and charmless. One thing’s for damned sure, we’ll miss them when they’re gone."
Hope that finally clears this up.
So basically if you want to go faster and have a totally cold and charmless driving experience then get the PDK.
If you want an adrenalin pumped, challenging, rewarding and significantly more enjoyable driving experience then get the MANUAL.
I know which one i would go for everytime...
No Further Questions Your Honour....
Last edited by michaelscain; 03-22-2017 at 07:03 AM.
03-22-2017, 08:29 AM
#70
^^^^ that really is just non-sense. It's the usual journalistic pap. How many of these guys actually own a high performance car - answer very few.
If you're not engaged during a track test you are doing something very wrong. I can drive the snot out of both and wouldn't swap back to a manual in a performance car. Particular the higher HP variants. Thats why Mclaren, Ferrari etc don't offer a manual - guess what, the actual owners of the cars never say "I wish my long tail had a manual"
The whole manual Vs PDK debate is tiresome - most people buy PDKs by a big margin. If you want to believe a manual is more engaging, its simply the case for you, but not the case for most - what is absolutely clear is the PDK delivers far better all round performance e.g. laptimes, 0-60 etc, fuel economy, emissions.
If you're not engaged during a track test you are doing something very wrong. I can drive the snot out of both and wouldn't swap back to a manual in a performance car. Particular the higher HP variants. Thats why Mclaren, Ferrari etc don't offer a manual - guess what, the actual owners of the cars never say "I wish my long tail had a manual"
The whole manual Vs PDK debate is tiresome - most people buy PDKs by a big margin. If you want to believe a manual is more engaging, its simply the case for you, but not the case for most - what is absolutely clear is the PDK delivers far better all round performance e.g. laptimes, 0-60 etc, fuel economy, emissions.
Last edited by randr; 03-22-2017 at 08:51 AM.
03-22-2017, 09:14 AM
#71
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
^^^^ that really is just non-sense. It's the usual journalistic pap. How many of these guys actually own a high performance car - answer very few.
If you're not engaged during a track test you are doing something very wrong. I can drive the snot out of both and wouldn't swap back to a manual in a performance car. Particular the higher HP variants. Thats why Mclaren, Ferrari etc don't offer a manual - guess what, the actual owners of the cars never say "I wish my long tail had a manual"
The whole manual Vs PDK debate is tiresome - most people buy PDKs by a big margin. If you want to believe a manual is more engaging, its simply the case for you, but not the case for most - what is absolutely clear is the PDK delivers far better all round performance e.g. laptimes, 0-60 etc, fuel economy, emissions.
If you're not engaged during a track test you are doing something very wrong. I can drive the snot out of both and wouldn't swap back to a manual in a performance car. Particular the higher HP variants. Thats why Mclaren, Ferrari etc don't offer a manual - guess what, the actual owners of the cars never say "I wish my long tail had a manual"
The whole manual Vs PDK debate is tiresome - most people buy PDKs by a big margin. If you want to believe a manual is more engaging, its simply the case for you, but not the case for most - what is absolutely clear is the PDK delivers far better all round performance e.g. laptimes, 0-60 etc, fuel economy, emissions.
And if your theory about PDK is correct you would think the new GT3 in manual would not sell but I get the feeling there will be at least half sold in manual.
03-22-2017, 10:54 AM
#72
^^^^ that really is just non-sense. It's the usual journalistic pap. How many of these guys actually own a high performance car - answer very few.
If you're not engaged during a track test you are doing something very wrong. I can drive the snot out of both and wouldn't swap back to a manual in a performance car. Particular the higher HP variants. Thats why Mclaren, Ferrari etc don't offer a manual - guess what, the actual owners of the cars never say "I wish my long tail had a manual"
The whole manual Vs PDK debate is tiresome - most people buy PDKs by a big margin. If you want to believe a manual is more engaging, its simply the case for you, but not the case for most - what is absolutely clear is the PDK delivers far better all round performance e.g. laptimes, 0-60 etc, fuel economy, emissions.
If you're not engaged during a track test you are doing something very wrong. I can drive the snot out of both and wouldn't swap back to a manual in a performance car. Particular the higher HP variants. Thats why Mclaren, Ferrari etc don't offer a manual - guess what, the actual owners of the cars never say "I wish my long tail had a manual"
The whole manual Vs PDK debate is tiresome - most people buy PDKs by a big margin. If you want to believe a manual is more engaging, its simply the case for you, but not the case for most - what is absolutely clear is the PDK delivers far better all round performance e.g. laptimes, 0-60 etc, fuel economy, emissions.
Porsche is actually bringing the 'Manual' back to the new GT3.
Even the head guy at Porsche 'Dan Prosser' said his ideal GT3 would be fitted with a 'Manual' and not a PDK.
New Porsche 911 GT3 exclusive. Welcome back manual GT3
Enjoy the video.
03-22-2017, 11:43 AM
#73
Im BETTING new GT3 will be 60% or more manual. PDK is a great transmission! I have driven a couple different P cars with them and have one in the wives Macan GTS, but lets be serious...my 70 year old mom can drive one and drive it quickly from light to light...
BTW I know I will have one at some point in my own P car but not yet! hopefully many many years from now when my knees give out.
BTW I know I will have one at some point in my own P car but not yet! hopefully many many years from now when my knees give out.
03-22-2017, 03:34 PM
#74
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 2,027
Likes: 0
Received 112 Likes
on
79 Posts
EVO Magazine Provided this ; http://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/911/133...vs-pdk-gearbox
As my mom used to say, "What you make on the tomatoes, you lose on the potatoes."
PDK is faster, but perhaps slightly less engaging.
MT will cost you a few 10s, but involve you a bit more.
No right or wrong. To each his own. Vive la différence.
03-22-2017, 08:12 PM
#75
Advanced
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Me: " Honey, thinking about getting another Porsche what do you think? "
Wife:" Well we already have 2 why do you need another one?"
Me:" This one's an automatic"
Wife: " Oh cool so I can drive it !!!"
Me: " Just thinking of you babe"
Actually randr, I would find your post more offensive and here is why. You responded to someone's conversation between husband and wife and in the case the wife can't drive a manual, but you assumed it to be a negative on all woman, so you are assuming people view women in that manner, but if you truly looked at men and women as equals you only would have read the conversation as a husband and wife and wouldn't bring ALL women into it. That being said, I feel it is YOU that is behind on this one. I just read it as a conversation where one person couldn't drive a manual, which isn't a big deal.
Wife:" Well we already have 2 why do you need another one?"
Me:" This one's an automatic"
Wife: " Oh cool so I can drive it !!!"
Me: " Just thinking of you babe"
Actually randr, I would find your post more offensive and here is why. You responded to someone's conversation between husband and wife and in the case the wife can't drive a manual, but you assumed it to be a negative on all woman, so you are assuming people view women in that manner, but if you truly looked at men and women as equals you only would have read the conversation as a husband and wife and wouldn't bring ALL women into it. That being said, I feel it is YOU that is behind on this one. I just read it as a conversation where one person couldn't drive a manual, which isn't a big deal.