clubracer6

I agree, I think the NB is the best of the lot. A little more solid than an NA but extremely fun to toss around.

Overall is a great time to be a car guy isn't it?! So many great choices.

JRitt@essex

The problem I had with the NB is that I just didn't fit well. Being 6'3-4", I fit much better in the NA and ND than I do in the NB. In the NB I felt like I was sitting on top of the car, not in it. The interior arm rests/door pulls are a large molded plastic piece in the NB, which also limits elbow room.

fast1

IMO, the main downside is that the car is a tin can on wheels. If you crash, it likely won't be a great outcome for you or your passenger.

The downside you specified is the only reason that I don't own a Miata. I live in the country where there are numerous distracted soccer moms driving 5K+ lb tanks to transport the kids. Driving a 2300 lb Miata on these roads is too risky for me, and that's unfortunate because no car is more fun to drive on the street, especially at or near legal speeds.

spyderphile

Agree with all your comments (and others'), Jeff, regarding Miata. I am a big fan. Have had three over the years (1 NA, 2 NBs). I still wish I kept the NA! Despite all that, I think S2000 is a better choice, for low-speed street-driving. Since you have one as well, what makes the Miata a better choice? S2000 is the perfect choice without overwhelming. The streets are filled with traffic, idiotic drivers and unmarked patrol cars! In fact, I would choose the S2000 over the Spyder for low-speed fun, for the streets!

taibo

Rider, I'm with you. I love driving my spyder, but still live the rawness of my s2000 ap1.

Two different rides. 981 spyder is the last of the old school roadsters and s2k is the first of the modern sports cars. Great bookends to choose from.

JRitt@essex

I think for me the ultra low weight, smallness, and 'reaching the limits at the lowest speed' thing is why I prefer the Miata on the street. When you're going 35 mph, the miata feels like you're humming along at a good clip. When you're doing 35mph in the S2000, it's not quite the same sensation. The S2k is more solid, bigger, and more planted. The Miata feels tiny, incredibly nimble, and gives up the goods at speeds that are 20mph lower through the same corner.

Part of the equation is definitely tires. As mentioned, I run 185 all seasons on my miata so the mechanical grip is intentionally very low (and fun). My S2k has 245 summer tires all the way around...HUGE difference in grip and the speeds at which limits can be reached.

In terms of torque/driving around, starting and stopping, etc., I don't find my miata to be any more difficult than the S2k. In fact, sometimes I think the miata is easier to drive in those conditions. The Miata engine is smaller, but there is a giant weight difference in the cars. My miata weighs 2150 lbs. with a peak 100 torque (21.5 lbs. of body weight per lb. ft) , and my S2k is 2800 lbs. with a peak 153 torque (18.3 lbs. of body weight per lb ft). When you look at the torque curves of each however, that difference is actually narrower than it sounds at first glance. Off-VTEC, the F20C S2K is only putting about 25 more torque to the ground vs. the miata when puttering around under 6,000 RPM's....even though it has to push around an extra 650 lbs. of car.

Here's a typical stock 1.6L miata dyno



Here's an F20C S2000 dyno plot (2000-2003 model years)



In day-to-day drive-ability that difference feels more or less negligible to me. They both scoot along okay, but neither has any grunt. I much prefer my CTS-V to either of those for day-to-day driving...letting the clutch out and getting underway, or rolling through low speed stop-and-go traffic is SO much easier!

spyderphile

Great explanation, Jeff. Point well made!

fakkkr

I was in the same situation, several years ago.

I'd had a Miata that was destroyed in an accident, and I was considering buying another one but ended up buying a used Boxster.

I ruled out an old Miata because I was worried about dying in an accident and they are also too small for my height.



I ended up with a 987S. In some ways, I wish I had bought the new Miata.

Pros for new Miata:

1. Ease/Cost/Variability of repairs. You can get it repaired anywhere and the repairs are cheap. The cost of repairs I expected, I hadn't expected the difficulty in finding someone who works on Porsches. Beyond that, there is also the "Worry" about repairs. Sudden repairs may hit and be bizarrely expensive. I feel less comfortable, say, drifting in a Boxster. I'd have no problem doing that in a Miata. I'm less comfortable taking a Boxster to a track, because I'm out $15k+ if the engine dies. With a Miata, I'm not worried. On top of that, the cost of tires/oil/brakes from taking a Boxster to the track are just much... more.

2. Car technology has progressed rapidly in the past years. Porsche technology integration has never impressed me. I don't think Mazda's is great, but I'd take it over an older Porsche any day.

3. Driving a slower car fast and rowing gears is fun. In a 987S, red line in FIRST is faster than any road I routinely drive. Redline in second is above the speedlimit of any highway within two hours drive.

4. You avoid the inevitable wear and tear on a used car: rock chips, worn interior components (e.g. a fan switch where the plastic peels off due to poor manufacturing which can only be replaced as part of a $600 unit), and general idiosyncrasies (e.g. a radio that occasionally locks up and needs to have it s power reset at the switch.




Pros for Boxster

1. The interior is very, very nice if you have full leather interior and are post 986.

2. Better power (although neither are high powered cars).

3. Options depreciate quickly, so you can get a very nicely optioned car reasonably cheaply.

4. Depreciation is much slower on a used car. This potentially makes up for the higher maintenance and repairs -- although not the higher variance in costs.

5. Impress your friends!

Patrick3000

I have had an ND club for six months.



Owned a NA about twentyfive years ago and have driven both the NB and NC. Yes the ND is fun, light and nimble. The ND is a very, very good sports car, it simply lacks the sole that is the essence of a Porsche. If that is important to you than I would recommend a base 981 w/ the X73 suspension.

The X73 makes the Base 981 one of the best drivers cars of all time.

CFIMarco

I love roadsters, I bought 12 roadsters since 1998: three Miatas, two FIAT Barchetta, one Lotus Elise MK1, one 986S, one 987S, one 981S, one SLK R170 and two, R171.
I loved the Miatas
The Miata is super-fun and the running cost much less than a Boxster, but IMHO, as long as I'll be able to afford a Boxster... Believe me, Boxster for ever!

greens

That awful torque curve of the AP1 motor is what caused me to sell my S2000 and never look back. I hear Honda mitigated a bit of this issue moving to a 2.2L motor for the AP2, but I have never driven one and therefore can't comment.

A NA/NB, to me, is far far far more satisfying of a DD than the S2000. Enough low end torque to get out of the way a decent pace. The S2000 feels like a base model Civic below 5.5K and it feels like it takes ages for the car to go from 3K to 5.5K waiting for the second cam to come on. The weight difference is probably the biggest factor though. 2250 vs 2850. 600 lbs is no joke and unfortunately there's really no way to strip it out of the S2000 even if you were willing to go that far with it.

brauhaus

I've driven both and IMO the 10k premium of a used base 981 (if you can actually get a decent one for around $40k) over a new ND is more than worth it. Standing alone, the ND is a great fun car, perhaps enough if as you say it won't be a DD. It's not a great cruiser though. Your impression of the ND vs the 981 based solely on shorter test drives may even be that the ND with all the noise and sensations is more fun and the 981 a bit sterile in comparison, but it gets old really fast. For me, the ND isn't acceptable for anything but the shortest of highway drives.

As you say, the 981 is a lot more car, and it is in so many ways, but to me what really separates the ND from the 981 is how clunky the ND feels in comparison. Inputs and interaction between braking, acceleration, shifting, and clutch are only good for the ND's price point. It is not a viable alternative to a 981 if you really like how solid and tied together they feel.

hf1

What a great thread! I loved my 987.1 Boxster S and have been itching for a fun roadster again. Have had the 981 base and the MX-5 on my radar. I've raced many MX-5's with Skip Barber and loved them. I've also grown to appreciate lightness and fun over HP. Anyone has the NA-ND weights for comparison?

JRitt@essex

Curb weights by year (and some other info). NA's ranged from 2182-2359 lbs. depending on year and spec.

Year Wt. HP lb/hp hp/lb
1990 NA 1.6L 2182 116 18.81034483 0.053162236
1991 NA 1.6L 2182 116 18.81034483 0.053162236
1992 NA 1.6L 2214 116 19.0862069 0.052393857
1993 NA 1.6L 2223 116 19.1637931 0.052181736

1994 NA 1.8L 2293 128 17.9140625 0.055822067
1995 NA 1.8L 2293 128 17.9140625 0.055822067
1996 NA 1.8L 2293 133 17.2406015 0.058002617
1997 NA 1.8L 2359 133 17.73684211 0.056379822

1999 NB 1.8L 2299 140 16.42142857 0.060896042
2000 NB 1.8L 2332 140 16.65714286 0.060034305
2001 NB 1.8L 2387 142 16.80985915 0.059488898
2002 NB 1.8L 2387 142 16.80985915 0.059488898
2003 NB 1.8L 2387 142 16.80985915 0.059488898
2004 NB 1.8L 2447 142 17.23239437 0.058030241

2015 ND 2.0L 2332 to 2381 lbs., 155 HP, 15.0452 lbs. per HP. Torque is not included in this chart, but is a very big part of the overall speed and feel story. The original car had 100 ft-lbs. at 5500 RPM's, while the new car has 148 lb-ft much earlier at 4600 rpm's....huge difference! Engine tech has come a long way in the past 30 years!

JRitt@essex

Here's a decent video comparison of the NA and ND...they actually mention Porsche at the end.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...the-first-one/

I feel the same way as the gents in the vid. The NA represents a tremendous value and offers essentially the same core experience at a 10th of the price.

That doesn't mean the ND isn't worth the price. I'd still love to own one! I just can't justify the added cost.