Red Shift

All,

After much searching on this forum, and many others, I wasn't able to find an answer to my question, which simply is, do you use an anti-ethanol treatment (not fuel system cleaner, just something to counteract the ethanol) every time you fill up?

If no, why not?
If yes, which brand do you prefer?

Thanks in advance!

LexVan

No reason to with a modern Porsche.

Run 93 octane from the busiest national brand gas stations you can find.

The Pope

93? You still have 93 octane there? We haven't even had 92 in at least 15 years here in Kalifornia...

Marine Blue

I've been wondering the same thing about ethanol and the Spyder. We have 91 Octane ethanol free or 93 octane with 10% ethanol available and I debate which is better for long term and performance.

Dr.Bill

I think it's called Antabuse.

OK, different ethanol.
I long for some 93 octane here in the desert. . .

David A

I use Stabil ethanol treatment in my 993.

Macster

Don't use any anti-ethanol treatment for my Porsches. Didn't even know any existed.

No reason to use it. If you think otherwise just throw the money you would spend on the stuff out the car's window as you drive down the road (drive by my house!) and thus avoid subjecting your fuel system and engine to any harmful effects the stuff might have.

In my Boxster, I've been running ethanol treated fuel (and 91 octane at that) for nearly 200K miles of its total 281K miles. For the first 80K miles I'm not sure if there was any ethanol in the fuel or not. Been running good old CA 91 goat ****, errr gasoline with ethanol in it for 123K miles in my Turbo.

The injectors are original in both engines. The O2 sensors and converters are original in the Turbo. The O2 sensors have been replaced just once in the Boxster. I replaced one converter (with a used converter) on the Boxster because the brick in the original converter came loose and was knocking about in the converter, but this was probably due to a mechanical failure or a blow from road debris, not because of the fuel.

Red Shift

Thanks for the replies.

I've run a fuel system cleaner my last few tanks, as I've only had my 2010 Boxster since late March and with 55K on the clock, I wanted to make sure the fuel system was clean since there's no way to tell what previous owners have, or haven't done. I had thought a regular regimen of fuel treatments would keep her running strong, but from the responses here it seems more reasonable to run a fuel system cleaner every so often.

Thanks for easing my mind, and my wallet.

Great board...I can't stay away.

Red Shift

All,

I did have one more thought that may clarify my original thinking.

There may not be any way to technically "counteract", or neutralize, the ethanol, I now realize, but since ethanol attracts water, which is not good for fuel (duh), does anyone have any experience, thoughts or opinions on the treatments which claim to remove the water from your fuel system?

Thanks...

the_vetman

You have to realize that almost all OTC "additives" out there are in fact "subtractives". Giant waste of money. There are who disagree but it has been discussed ad nauseum and debunked for decades. One thing is clear: it's extremely unlikely that all they claim on the label actually come true, i.e. work exactly as they claim.

Ethanol does attract water and this can be harmful over time if you rarely drive your car or store it for long periods (winter, long vacation). In those cases, use Sta-bil.

p.s. Speaking of waste-of-money "additives".... you know those octane boosters that claim to raise gas' octane by 1? In fact, they're talking about 0.1.....

terbiumactivated

Vetman, I don't use any additives in the Spyder. But when I poured 104+ into the 986 the difference was as perceptible as a mod.

Macster

An argument can be made that with a used car a treatment or two of a good fuel system cleaner -- Techron -- is called for to remove any possible fuel system deposits (and deposits elsewhere) that could have arisen from the previous owner's type of usage of the car. I used Techron in my 996 Turbo after I bought it used with just 10K miles on the odometer.

But anything more than 2 treatments is overkill. The bad stuff is a waste of money. The good stuff -- Techron -- is pretty aggressive and should be used sparingly.

After using Techron to keep the fuel system in tip top shape buy a premium grade of top tier fuel from a busy station. The premium fuel comes with an extra load of detergents which are designed among other things to keep the build up of fuel system deposits down. The way these detergents work though requires the engine be run.

I do not know if this partially arises from the fuel working as the engine is being run but I have often noticed an improvement in the engine's feel after a prolonged drive of 40 miles or more. While once in a while this can involve some hard acceleration once or twice in that 40 miles but most often the drive consists of just driving the car at a steady speed on the freeway.

Also, it is a good idea after the last tank treated with fuel system cleaner gets down to say a quarter of a tank to change the oil/filter. The real good fuel cleaners work in such a way that there can possibly be some accelerated oil contamination and to avoid running this oil it should be changed.

Macster

While it is true that ethanol combines with water this is not a problem in these cars as there is no water in the fuel.

While water in the fuel was a problem in the era of steel fuel tanks, and open to the atmosphere fuel systems with modern cars the fuel system tanks are made up of a very durable composite plastic and sealed from the atmosphere.

Thus there will be *no* water to condense in the fuel in the fuel tank and as long as the fuel that is added to the tank is water free there will be no water in the tank from any source.

Even if any hypothetical water got in the tank when the fuel pump is turned on this agitates the fuel in the tank and the water and ethanol will combine and the ethanol will recombine -- there can be if the fuel sits long enough some stratification of the ethanol and gasoline -- with the gasoline and be consumed along with the gasoline.

Unless the amount of this hypothetical water is above some threshold the engine and the fuel system will be blissfully unaware and thus unaffected by the presence of this water.

As an aside, the fuel pump in my 02 Boxster quit at around 200K miles. At an average of 25mpg that works out to 8000 gallons of gasoline the pump pumped, the fuel tank held. Over those 200K miles I added gasoline to the tank in every state west of the Mississippi (and one or two east of the Mississippi) during the depths of winter to the blazing heat and horrible humidity of summer and every season in between.

The tech reported no signs of any water in the fuel tank and no signs of any water having ever been in the fuel tank. The fuel pump's housing was while a bit yellowed compared to that of the new pump's housing, the fuel pump housing showed no signs of having been in contact with water at all. And this housing sits right at the very bottom of the tank, held in place by plastic locking tabs so the fuel pump is ensured of getting fuel if there is any fuel to get. If there was any water in the tank this water would have left its mark on the housing.

Now I admit I when I bought my Boxster I was a bit concerned about water (and other things) in the fuel. I have most of the time bought from busy gas stations. They are usually the ones offering the lowest priced fuel around. With the purchase of my Boxster and since then I have tried to shop at top tier gasoline stations, avoiding discount and non-top tier gasoline stations.

(During one or two times gas prices soared I admit I bought gas at a discount (but busy) gas station. But my experience with the behavior of a marginal converter in my Boxster convinced me that this gasoline was not the best gasoline, so I went back to using top tier gasoline.)

So, my habit of buying fuel from busy stations, and avoiding whenever possible filling up while a tanker truck was refilling the station's storage tanks I think helped to keep the tank free of any water entering the tank from being pumped in along with gasoline from the station's storage tanks.

(As an aside I've talked to various people about this refilling of the storage tanks and what issues there can arise and have been assured the filtration of the fuel between the storage tank and the dispensing nozzle is very good and my concerns about filling up during a station refueling are unwarranted. However, old habits die hard.)

Also, I like to believe my fueling habits contributed to the lack of any build up or accumulation of solid debris in the tank and in the fuel filter, which is in the case of my car's fuel system is the very fine mesh that is part of the fuel pump housing and through which all fuel must flow on its way to the fuel pump and from there to the fuel line and injectors.

About injectors: I have to point out that the injectors in my Boxster are original and have covered 282K miles. Not only have they remained free of any deposit build up they have probably not been exposed to any water or even any ethanol with any significant amount of water in it. They have also not been subjected to any solid particulate matter as the tiny fine screen in the injector would have become blocked by now I would think.

Water in the tank, the concerns about the ethanol combining with this water, are overblown. As long as you buy quality gasoline, shop at a busy station, and try to avoid filling up while the station's tanks are being refilled and if your car has one service the fuel filter at proper/recommended intervals your car's fuel system should just fine for a long time.

extanker

wow...the short answer...go with post #2.

LexVan

Thanks! I am a BIG believer in the KISS Model. Keep It Simple Stupid.