orthojoe

I had hoped to avoid doing this, but as long as I continue to track the car, it has become inevitable. Over the past 2 years, I actually haven't tracked the spyder that much, since most of my track days were with the Evo. However, after only 5 track days on the stock pagid P40 pads, the PCCB rotors are starting to show the wear indicators. There's no way in heck than I am paying 16k to replace my rotors. I've decided to throw in the towel on the PCCBs for a couple reasons:

1) cost of replacement 8k per axle is not something I am willing or able to spend. At this rate, I've probably only got another 5 track days before the rotors will need to be replaced. I've scheduled 4 track days with the spyder this year, so that doesn't give me much more time on the PCCBs.

2) I'd like to preserve my original rotors and not wear them out completely. A couple years from now, I will likely retire the spyder from the track (hope to have something more hardcore then), and then use it primarily as a weekend/fun car. At that point, I will put the PCCBs back on the car and enjoy it for the rest of the car's days

3) The pagid P40 pads just don't bite well enough for track use. I can't brake nearly as late as I do with a car running dedicated track pads. You can't use track pads on PCCBs. Contrary to popular belief, just having PCCBs doesn't let you brake any better, it's just lightweight and fade resistant.

As far as replacements go, I've decided to go with the Brembo Type III rotors and PFC08 pads on all 4 corners. PFC08 seem to be all the rage right now, and the replacement rotor rings for the type III brembos are $550 a ring, vs $4000 per PCCB rotor.

I had some time this afternoon and replaced the rotors/pads on the right side of the car. VERY easy DIY. Remove the 2 caliper bolts, one small bolt holding the hard brake line, and 2 screws holding the rotor to the hub, and you're done. Probably takes about 20 minutes per hub, including pad swap, wheel mount/dismount. If you're really good I can see this taking even less time.

Say 'goodbye' to the PCCBs:


OK, here's the info everyone wants to know:

PCCB front rotor weight: 12.5 pounds


PCCB rear rotor weight: 12.5 pounds


Here is a closeup showing how one of the circular wear indicators is starting to show it's ugly head:


Front brembo type III rotor (350mmx34) weighs 22 pounds


Rear brembo type III rotor (350mmx28) weighs 16.5 pounds


Front rotor weight difference is 9.5 pounds, while the rears are only a 4 pound difference. Total increase unsprung mass is 27 pounds. I don't know why the weight difference is much more in the front vs. the rear. The PCCB front/back rotors weighed the same. Whereas there is a 5.5 pound difference between front and rear brembo type III rotors, with the front being heavier.

Front rotor/pads installed


Rear rotor/pads installed


I'll finish the other side tomorrow and bed the brakes in this weekend. It will be interesting to see how much of a difference I can feel with the increase weight. I also am hoping the pedal will feel firmer with the PFC08 pads and that the bite will be much better.

stevecolletti

Joe, check the factory PCCB hats. On my 2008 RS, one end is steel, the other aluminum - I don't remember which is which and the car isn't here right now. If yours are the same, that would explain the weight. The CR is aluminum front and rear.

orthojoe

PCCB hats are the the same front/rear, and so is the weight. It's the front brembo steel rotors that are much heavier. Both brembo hats are aluminum too.

stevecolletti

grrr.... I thought I'd already posted this one (two RL windows open!), then came up with a possible reason for the weight discrepancy.

Great post, Joe

Thanks for the weights, the pics and the information.

I wonder what the replacement MOVIT rotors weigh?

orthojoe

I'm gonna let YOU figure that one out, Steve.

stevecolletti

They'd be a lot more interesting if anyone who'd put them on their car had kept the car for any length of time afterwards!

Assuming weight is significantly better than the Brembos (and close to the OEM PCCBs), and if they really cost (for just the rotors) what replacement PCCBs cost and they really last forever, then the value proposition for those of us who keep our cars for a decade or more isn't as bad as you'd think. It's the OEM PCCBs (at $4-5K each) that come off looking not so great (it would be very different if the Porsche OEM PCCB rotors were priced closer to those of the Corvette ZR1).

I also can't help but wonder, given the issues you're seeing with the P40/PCCB combo when tracking (and my terrible experiences with Porsche warranty), if a non-Porsche-approved PCCB-specific pad would work better - I've had good luck with Porterfield in the past, and their catalog used to show a range of PCCB-compatible track pads.

BTW, what happened to the P40/P50 compromise pad that was supposedly being developed when Porsche 'dis'-qualified the P50 pad for PCCBs?

Did you check the OEM PCCB hats?
Never mind, I missed one of your posts.

orthojoe

Yeah, it's funny that the people we've seen on the forum with the Movit system don't use it for long because they sell the car. I agree that if you track a ton and if you plan on keeping the car for a long time, it can make some sense. IRRC, the movit ceramic rotors are heavier than the PCCB rotors.

There are some aftermarket pads that claim to allow use with PCCB. Endless says the ME-20s are compatible, but the pads are much more expensive than the PFC pads. They also make a specific pad for PCCB, but the pads are over $1000 per axle, and the pccb rotors will still wear. That is why I nixed the aftermarket pad option on PCCBs. The P40s are going to be the least abrasive to the rotors, but my rotors have still worn away.

My OEM pccb hats are the same front/rear. The OEM pccb rotors weigh the same front/rear. It's the brembos that are heavier in the front. The front rotors are thicker, so that's probably why it weighs more with the brembos

Z356

Joe, it's quite understandable and I think you are doing the smart thing! Alex 'Sharky' Ross thinks very highly of Brembo for these cars as a replacement for factory OEM, as you may recall when I posted about meeting Steve Colletti & Phil Barker at 'Shark Werks'. And these Brembos also look really good! Good luck! Of course, as a 'John Cooper Works' MY2011 Mini Hatch owner, Brembo's came on my car from factory...so I am already ahead of the curve!

Saludos,
Eduardo

We saw this movie before when Savy changed his PCCB's on his Spyder...and went with the more expensive Movits! That was just over two years ago!

https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...-insanity.html

mrd_spy

What was the weights printed on your PCCB ?

mrd_spy

I can see it on your disk
12.636 lbs. and now it weighs 12.5lbs

But your rear was 12.32 new!!! But you say it's now 12.5 ?

What is the porsche min weight for changing disks as this is how you tell ?

Schmidts Cat

Nice swap Jo. I'll check them out at TH in a few weeks.

orthojoe

Nice pickup! I didn't notice the weights printed on the hat. The only explanation I have on the weight discrepancy is that I am using a cruddy bathroom scale that only measures every .5 of a pound. It is not accurate enough to read every .1 of a pound. I'll weigh the other two when I take them off this morning

I wonder if the weight printed is original weight or minimal weight?

Btw, the calipers are extremely light. They look like they would weight a lot, but I was surprised at how light they were. I would guess that the weight increase from 4 to 6 piston sized calipers is minimal. Anyone know what stock non PCCB equipped, steel rotors weigh?

mrd_spy

It's the weight of the unit new.

fhp911

When PCCB was first introduced and people started using them at the track there were lots of reports of premature wear and other unhappiness. Later, we were told, All Is Well with PCCB V2.

OrthoJoe's saga tells us that PCCB are really not compatible with track use; and IMO they are ridiculous for the street so they are just plain ridiculous.

Comments?

mrd_spy

Some sites state if you loose 100 gramms they are worn out.
So you need very good scales to measure that.