Converting PCCB rotors to steel on my Spyder
04-07-2013, 08:20 PM
#46
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
04-09-2013, 12:25 AM
#47
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
I went to Suncoast website just for the heck of it today. I was floored by the recent price increases. Would you guys believe that it costs $20k now to replace the PCCB rotors?!?!? 9k up front and 11k in the rear! When did the prices go up? Why would they go up? I've been hearing that corvette pccbs cost $1k each.
Same goes for the RS4.0 steering wheel. It's $2650 now for the steering wheel!!! I thought I was getting robbed when I paid $1500 over a year ago.
What the heck is going on?!
Same goes for the RS4.0 steering wheel. It's $2650 now for the steering wheel!!! I thought I was getting robbed when I paid $1500 over a year ago.
What the heck is going on?!
04-09-2013, 11:37 AM
#49
Three Wheelin'
What the heck is Porsche (VW) doing, lately.
It's getting harder to believe that this is the same company that marketed to kids too young to drive. They've transitioned from building a market in the next generation to killing the market they have.
Are they taking economics lessons from Kalifornia?
It's getting harder to believe that this is the same company that marketed to kids too young to drive. They've transitioned from building a market in the next generation to killing the market they have.
Are they taking economics lessons from Kalifornia?
04-13-2013, 09:34 PM
#51
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
What the heck is Porsche (VW) doing, lately.
It's getting harder to believe that this is the same company that marketed to kids too young to drive. They've transitioned from building a market in the next generation to killing the market they have.
Are they taking economics lessons from Kalifornia?
It's getting harder to believe that this is the same company that marketed to kids too young to drive. They've transitioned from building a market in the next generation to killing the market they have.
Are they taking economics lessons from Kalifornia?
I had a discussion with a friend, and he thinks that Porsche is going down the same road as Harley Davidson. I don't know anything about bikes, so if my information is wrong, please somebody say so.
Apparently Harley Davidson did some similar things as what Porsche is doing. This is what he said:
This sounds like what has happened to Harley-Davidson. They abused their customers in terms of price and for making the brand over-commercialized. I used to have a Harley Dyna Wide-glide, it was a ton of fun. But the cost of both the bikes and parts became absurd, considering the very ancient engineering that went into their development. Plus, it no longer became cool. Harley put their emblem on anything and everything and charged a gross premium. I'll never buy one again. It hasn't bode well for Harley. Quite a few of their stores have closed. This is a far cry when it was considered a deal if you paid MSRP for your bike.
04-13-2013, 10:52 PM
#52
Three Wheelin'
Since it's been super boring in this forum lately, why don't we expand on this discussion:
I had a discussion with a friend, and he thinks that Porsche is going down the same road as Harley Davidson. I don't know anything about bikes, so if my information is wrong, please somebody say so.
Apparently Harley Davidson did some similar things as what Porsche is doing. This is what he said:
Charging $5k for rotors when others are charging $1k for the same thing? Gross price increases on parts (ie $1000 increase in cost for a steering wheel in one year). Ignoring your small, but important core, set of enthusiasts for the sake of selling more volume to the masses (ie 991GT3).
I had a discussion with a friend, and he thinks that Porsche is going down the same road as Harley Davidson. I don't know anything about bikes, so if my information is wrong, please somebody say so.
Apparently Harley Davidson did some similar things as what Porsche is doing. This is what he said:
Charging $5k for rotors when others are charging $1k for the same thing? Gross price increases on parts (ie $1000 increase in cost for a steering wheel in one year). Ignoring your small, but important core, set of enthusiasts for the sake of selling more volume to the masses (ie 991GT3).
Porsche seems to have become more about "lifestyle' sales than anything else.
I wrote about how disappointed I was in the 991 at the Roadshow (where the Panamera GTS felt more like a sports car than the Carerra and Carerra S).
Now, I'm getting furniture catalogs to "ligne roset"... really, is that what Porsche is all about?
Every time I read an article in Excellence or Panorama about someone who ordered their car (from the 1960s through 1980s) and got all kinds of special stuff from the factory, I just wonder if there is anyone left at Porsche who remembers what made them special.
It seems like the marketers know about Porsche history (they certainly use the designations freely enough), but I doubt they understand it.
Personally, I've been getting hosed by Porsche's warranty service for the last several months... not because of mods or track use, but because "there's nothing wrong with it" (RS's LSD), "it's a safety issue, we can't disable it" (RS's always wrong TPMS), "you must have damaged it" (RS's wing clear coat coming off), and issues with the headlight adjusters on both the RS ("it didn't come with an adjuster!") and the CR ("It's working fine").
What is the point of a warranty where nothing is covered? I should never have spent the money for CPO on the RS. I'd be much better off taking the car to Sharkwerks and have then make it right.
I think any chance Porsche has of building a special car now comes with the 960, or (unlikely) raiding the parts-bin (which is still very good) to build that Cayman GT3 RS.
04-13-2013, 10:56 PM
#53
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
04-13-2013, 11:06 PM
#54
Three Wheelin'
I used to get those Porsche lifestyle catalogs once a year, right before Christmas, now I get them about every 2 months. And what does Tequipment now sell? They used to have some performance parts (I bought my 996 GT3 seats through them), now it's all personalization...
I don't know much about Harleys, but they were "yestertech" even when they were 'cool'.
Porsche seems to have just given up. In one of those 991 'GT3' threads Macca accurately described what happened with Lamborghini. Porsche is doing the same thing. At least with Lamborghini, the company's survival was in the balance. Porsche was already the most profitable car company in the world before they started selling 100,000 expensive Cayennes and Panameras. There's really no excuse for this.
Maybe it's the only way VW knows how to do business?
I don't know much about Harleys, but they were "yestertech" even when they were 'cool'.
Porsche seems to have just given up. In one of those 991 'GT3' threads Macca accurately described what happened with Lamborghini. Porsche is doing the same thing. At least with Lamborghini, the company's survival was in the balance. Porsche was already the most profitable car company in the world before they started selling 100,000 expensive Cayennes and Panameras. There's really no excuse for this.
Maybe it's the only way VW knows how to do business?
04-14-2013, 01:23 AM
#55
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I'm convinced that a large majority of Porsche owners are buying the cars for status rather than driving experience. Porsche may focus on marketing driving experience but the bottom line "literally" revolves around building a car for a broader wealthy market segment. Building cars or building anything is about making money and the reality is that there are fewer and fewer car enthusiasts as time passes. More importantly there are very few wealthy car enthusiasts.
04-14-2013, 01:51 AM
#56
Three Wheelin'
I'm convinced that a large majority of Porsche owners are buying the cars for status rather than driving experience. Porsche may focus on marketing driving experience but the bottom line "literally" revolves around building a car for a broader wealthy market segment. Building cars or building anything is about making money and the reality is that there are fewer and fewer car enthusiasts as time passes. More importantly there are very few wealthy car enthusiasts.
The GT cars and the special performance vehicles have never been more than 10% of the output total... and again, that was before the Cayennes and Panmeras. It should be easier to appeal to us now, than it has ever been.
Last edited by stevecolletti; 04-14-2013 at 05:36 PM. Reason: typo
04-14-2013, 10:55 AM
#57
Rennlist Member
All this is true, but:
Remember around 1995 when they sold like 300 cars and almost went under? They need to be profitable so they can sell nitche cars for fanatics.
Remember, the boxster saved them with cheap, fun, broader appeal?
The GT cars of the last decade may be the best, most focused cars ever sold by them. At least since the 70s.
Porsche, do what you have to do, just don't forget what made you great, and the passionate fans you will need to keep your flame alive. If your brand platform is built on performance and engineering... Racing and enthusiasts, how long will that message ring true if you stop being that? The ever shrinking, hard core, sports car fans are your "halo". With out that contingent, you are empty and inauthentic... Then meaningless poseurs, then dead.
Remember around 1995 when they sold like 300 cars and almost went under? They need to be profitable so they can sell nitche cars for fanatics.
Remember, the boxster saved them with cheap, fun, broader appeal?
The GT cars of the last decade may be the best, most focused cars ever sold by them. At least since the 70s.
Porsche, do what you have to do, just don't forget what made you great, and the passionate fans you will need to keep your flame alive. If your brand platform is built on performance and engineering... Racing and enthusiasts, how long will that message ring true if you stop being that? The ever shrinking, hard core, sports car fans are your "halo". With out that contingent, you are empty and inauthentic... Then meaningless poseurs, then dead.
04-14-2013, 02:18 PM
#58
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Porsche may focus on marketing driving experience but the bottom line "literally" revolves around building a car for a broader wealthy market segment.
Building cars or building anything is about making money and the reality is that there are fewer and fewer car enthusiasts as time passes.
More importantly there are very few wealthy car enthusiasts.
All this is true, but:
Remember around 1995 when they sold like 300 cars and almost went under? They need to be profitable so they can sell nitche cars for fanatics.
Remember, the boxster saved them with cheap, fun, broader appeal?
The GT cars of the last decade may be the best, most focused cars ever sold by them. At least since the 70s.
Porsche, do what you have to do, just don't forget what made you great, and the passionate fans you will need to keep your flame alive. If your brand platform is built on performance and engineering... Racing and enthusiasts, how long will that message ring true if you stop being that? The ever shrinking, hard core, sports car fans are your "halo". With out that contingent, you are empty and inauthentic... Then meaningless poseurs, then dead.
Remember around 1995 when they sold like 300 cars and almost went under? They need to be profitable so they can sell nitche cars for fanatics.
Remember, the boxster saved them with cheap, fun, broader appeal?
The GT cars of the last decade may be the best, most focused cars ever sold by them. At least since the 70s.
Porsche, do what you have to do, just don't forget what made you great, and the passionate fans you will need to keep your flame alive. If your brand platform is built on performance and engineering... Racing and enthusiasts, how long will that message ring true if you stop being that? The ever shrinking, hard core, sports car fans are your "halo". With out that contingent, you are empty and inauthentic... Then meaningless poseurs, then dead.
07-29-2014, 04:22 PM
#59
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Going to revive a dead thread!
My type III brembo rotors have performed well. The rear pads and rotors still look new, BUT it looks like I'm only going to get 11 track days out of the front rotors. The cracks are extending beyond an inch and my nails will catch in the cracks. There are 10 days on them right now, but I think after my next track day they will be done. Now comes the issue of replacing these. It will cost about $1200 to get a pair of new rotor rings and new hardware. That works out to burning through about $100 worth of rotors per track day. Not horrible, but not cheap.
People have figured out that the pccb calipers are the same calipers as the 996GT3 calipers. There is a vendor that makes adapters to fit the 996 GT3 calipers to our 987s. They have also figured out that he rotors size for these calipers are the SAME as a 2005 Cayenne S. 350mm rotor size.
Tire racks sells stop tech rotors in this size for $150 each, cryo treated. Ben has been using these rotors after doing the upgrade on his car, and it has worked well for him so far. Definitely hasn't slowed him down and now his brake fluid doesn't boil over anymore.
So, I decided to do the same. Here is the breakdown:
$4750 per rotor, weighs 12.5lbs, lasts maybe 10 track days
$650 per rotor, weighs 22lbs, lasts maybe 11 track days
$150 per rotor, weighs 26lbs.... will find out how long they last.
My type III brembo rotors have performed well. The rear pads and rotors still look new, BUT it looks like I'm only going to get 11 track days out of the front rotors. The cracks are extending beyond an inch and my nails will catch in the cracks. There are 10 days on them right now, but I think after my next track day they will be done. Now comes the issue of replacing these. It will cost about $1200 to get a pair of new rotor rings and new hardware. That works out to burning through about $100 worth of rotors per track day. Not horrible, but not cheap.
People have figured out that the pccb calipers are the same calipers as the 996GT3 calipers. There is a vendor that makes adapters to fit the 996 GT3 calipers to our 987s. They have also figured out that he rotors size for these calipers are the SAME as a 2005 Cayenne S. 350mm rotor size.
Tire racks sells stop tech rotors in this size for $150 each, cryo treated. Ben has been using these rotors after doing the upgrade on his car, and it has worked well for him so far. Definitely hasn't slowed him down and now his brake fluid doesn't boil over anymore.
So, I decided to do the same. Here is the breakdown:
$4750 per rotor, weighs 12.5lbs, lasts maybe 10 track days
$650 per rotor, weighs 22lbs, lasts maybe 11 track days
$150 per rotor, weighs 26lbs.... will find out how long they last.
