Z356

We had a small group of Rennlisters meet at Shark Werks in Fremont, Ca today to celebrate Steve Colletti getting back his '12 Cayman R after some 'mods'! This is a repeat of a similar gathering we had almost one year ago at Alex Ross' shop to see Steve's first rounds of 'improvements' to his Cayman R. I will let Steve go into the technical details of what he has done when he gets around to it. But the one thing that really caught my eye was the Guard Limited Slip Differential from Matt at 'GT Gears' in Boulder, Co that Shark Werks installed on the Cayman R!

http://www.guardtransmission.com/

It is the same unit apparently used in Napleton's Interseries racing Caymans! Hopefully, Steve will fill in the group on the specifics of this particular Limited Slip and why he (and Shark Werks' techs) feel it's a vast improvement over the OEM LSD supplied with our Spyders & Cayman R's by the factory!

Last year we had more time to plan the Fremont event and we had in attendance Joe (OrthoJoe), Ben (Bensf), Ian (Schmidts Cat), Phil (redyps), plus one/two others, besides me & Steve. This year we did this on very short notice (just three days ago!), so we were able to get only Phil to attend besides me & Steve. But we had a lovely tour of Shark Werks facilities & some of the projects they are currently working on. One is a short shifter on a .1 gt3 that eliminates all plastic bushings & replaced them with metal parts! Alex has sold his .1 gt3 RS modified 'RS Green' Kermit to someone in LA, so we didn't see that. However, his .2 gt3 RS 'Riviera Blue' with 'RS Orange' trim was parked on a corner at his shop! After the tour, we went back to our old sushi place http://kaenyama.com/and had a great lunch!

I will again host a gathering of Rennlisters at my home in Carmel in August during the Historics, so I hope some of you Spyder/Cayman R guys are able to attend that one! We had close to ten RListers last August here for drinks! And Karen & I hope to see more of you in 2013!

Saludos,
Eduardo

PS Yes, that is a Fiat 600 on the very back...getting the Shark treatment! Brings back memories of my old 1953 Fiat Topolino & its 17 hp engine!

Schmidts Cat

Sorry to miss you guys, and sushi today. Looking forward to Steve's detailed description.

orthojoe

Looking forward to the write up, Steve! Did any discussion on PCCB replacements occur?

Z356

Perhaps we'll do it again next year at Shark Werks. Suggested to Alex Ross that he host a tech session at his shop NEXT Spring to explain modifications he would recommend on 987/991 Boxsters, Caymans, Spyders & Cayman R's! We can make this an informal annual event & review latest on mods for these specific models! Let's see if Sharky bites (pardon the pun) on this idea!

Yes, Steve is probably safely back in LA by now. He took off from Fremont at 3 PM! Hopefully, he will report in tomorrow!

re:PCCB replacements. Oh, yes. Some news to talk about on this front. But I will let Phil tells us what he heard from Alex...!

Saludos,
Eduardo

ATL Fahrer

The folks at Sharkworks are great. Had their center muffler bypass on my GT3. Any talk of exhaust mods for the 981?

For those considering the Guard LSD, you may also want to look into replacement of the factory components with Motorsport components - it's a lot cheaper and equal to the Guard system IMO.

the_vetman

Man, it's at times like these when I wish I lived in CA!

GT LSD is pretty much as good as it gets. Very popular among trackies. I'm going there myself when my stock LSD is all used up (may already be there now!).

BTW thank you for the info on PMS part.. another interesting option.

redyps

Steve, Eduardo -

Great seeing you guys yesterday. Fun time and yes good sushi!

From what I learned regarding replacement rotors we can either wait 3-5 weeks for the new Girodisc design that will have more vanes or get the existing race proven Brembo that has 72 vanes. The catch of course is that the Brembo's are about $1400 more for a full set. But when you consider the replacement cost of PCCBs either option offers considerable savings.

Decisions, decisions...

Phil

stevecolletti

Too much fun! I'm a little beat today, and catching up with... everything (in between drives ).

Eduardo,
Thanks for the airport pickup, and for arranging a bigger get together. Great idea on the sushi - I guess it's our new 'regular' haunt.

Phil,
It was great getting to know you; I loved the stories!

Alex,
Absolutely brilliant! I'm beyond thrilled. You've unleashed what the CR should always have been... and what Porsche should have delivered.
I apologize for taking over most of your Friday - and all the time I've taken over the last year. And if you could thank Todd for the extra time and effort coming up with that 'last' tune iteration (and for his recommendation on the IPD/GT3 TB), I'd really appreciate it.
The more I drive it, the more it impresses me.

Everyone else,
I apologize for the length and overwhelming exuberance of this post.

I still expect to play with alignment and tire pressures, but based on tire wear/usage, even that looks closer than I expected.

All the (relatively) small individual mods have come together better than I expected and the total is a very well balanced, very quick, fun car - perfect for the way I use the car - some tracking planned, but optimized more for a 'road' like the Nurburgring, than smooth circuits.

I can't, honestly, pick the mod I like best because I know what I'll 'miss' if I remove something from the equation.

For my purposes, the Cayman R suspension is shockingly good - I'm still using the stock CR springs, shocks and sway bars.
Porsche - if you can tune a suspension like this, why are you still pushing PASM?.
All the sliding and floating on undulating roads disappeared from the stock car when MPSCs replaced the standard PS2s. RSS LCAs added the camber the car needed once the tires got enough grip, and the solid bushings make everything work with immediacy.

Engine mods are all bolt-on: IPD intake w/GT3 throttle body, Sharkwerks/Evoms DME, Tubi cat-back exhaust and a LWFW... pretty mild as mods go, but the car feels completely different to me. Throttle response is immediate (good-bye eGas delay) and strong in any gear - making the chassis very responsive to throttle adjustment. Todd at Evoms kept tweaking the tune to give me what I wanted, and the current tune is better than stock in every way (except, maybe mileage?) - again, brilliant!
The Jet Hot coated, Tubi exhaust note is close to perfect - it burbles at idle (it got slightly 'lumpier' after adding the IPD/GT3 TB), growls at low rpm, and has an almost 'exotic' wail at RPM... yet it's easy to carry on a conversation in the car when driven 'normally'. It doesn't seem much lighter than stock and I never felt that it made more power, but the stock exhaust (and PSE) was too boring for this car.
The LWFW livens up the car, but was added so early n the process that I can't be sure how much of the added pull in the upper gears (after the latest round of mods) is due to it, though it's 1st gear impact is quite noticeable. Other than having been through 2 (expensive) dual-mass replacements in the past, what I love most about it is the way the engine revs much more freely, making shifting much more fun.

The Guard LSD 'finished' the car. I've owned cars with 'real' limited slips over the years, but none with the lockup on deceleration that this unit (50% accel/50% decel) has. I expected the added traction out of the corners, but I was blown away by how much difference the high locking percentage on deceleration made. I would love to see how much time this single mod would save on track - it's hard to imagine it not making the single biggest impact, based on what I've seen and felt, already. (Joe and Vetman - you need this - ask Alex)

While we had some issues (thanks again, Alex) getting to this point, I think the order in which we attacked the project was pretty much perfect for my goal. And there hasn't been any 'wasted' effort (products tried and dumped, failed components, do-overs) - that's a first for me - but everyone says that you're supposed to get smarter with age/experience.

The car has a bunch of other mods (5.75 lb Voltphreaks battery, 3rd radiator, custom brake ducts, GT3 master cylinder, RSS rear toe links - some other stuff I've forgotten right now), and they all make a difference... in some cases not the one I expected.

I wouldn't say any of these mods are major, or that they couldn't be relatively quickly and cheaply set back to stock (but why would you?), but their overall impact is huge. To me, the car is transformed and I keep asking myself, why (with minimal concessions) didn't Porsche do (at least) this with the CaymanR?

Thank you, Alex. You and Dan and James are amazing and I can't say how much I appreciate everything you've done (not to mention that ride in the 3.9 rocketship!), as well listening to me and not thinking I'm (too) crazy.

Now - I have to go for another drive!

orthojoe

Steve, glad to hear you love your car. I'm not surprised at all. All of your changes are well thought out and serve a tangible purpose. My favorite part of the car is the Tubi exhaust.

Ben? Is this what you need to get sub 2:00 times at Thill?

So admittedly, I don't fully understand how LSDs work other than that they are supposed to transfer power to the side that has traction. What is different about the guards from the factory LSD? I didn't realize that LSDs would help with braking?

the_vetman

Steve, thank you for the post and great feedback! Envious, I am!

GT LSD rocks. Stock LSD, on the other hand... is crap, for a lack of better description. The locking rate is 20/27% or something to that effect. It's almost as if Porsche put an LSD in 987s just to say that they have LSDs...

And it's not just 987s. GT3 LSDs are also pretty crappy. Better than 987's but won't last long on the track. Most (?) GT3 trackies go with GT (Guard Transmission).

LSD does help with braking. Ever do threshold braking at the end of a long straight and feel the rear end squirm and shift? A good LSD will cure that.

Finally, there is also TBD (Torque Biased Differential) that works differently. Some guys are very happy with and swear by them, e.g. Wavetrac, Quaife, etc. Another difference is that LSDs will need regular maintenance and rebuilding while TBD supposedly does not. And TBDs cost less (to purchase). For track type of work LSDs are largely considered superior. For AX or street, TBD may suffice.

stevecolletti

Thanks Joe and Vetman. I still have a big grin on my face.

Vetman's right about everything. Matt at Guard said that the stock Cayman R LSD is something like 16 / 22 or 16 / 28 (I've lost the note I took)... almost no locking at all, and yet you can still feel it doing more than not having an LSD (that should have told me something). You really need an LSD on a GT3 (rear engine); it's also pretty obvious when it's dead (mine is, and is now very squirrelly under heavy braking). Since mid-engine cars don't have the same dynamics issues, there seems to be the belief that they don't need or won't use an LSD enough to be appreciated. I can't tell you how untrue that is.

+1 on generalizing about LSDs for track, TBDs for Auto-X or street. That's primarily because LSDs lock on acceleration and deceleration (though at different, but definable percentages), whereas TBDs lock only on acceleration (but, at least in the case of the Torsen and Quaife, almost infinitely variable on torque delivered to the wheels).

I keep cars a long time. I've had 3 LSD's rebuilt (clutches die) in my life. Each one has gone more than 100K miles before needing it - not the case with the RS (26K miles).

Joe,
Not having tracked in a long time, I hate to put a number on the time saved by the LSD...
But on a local (safe) freeway interchange that I know very well (left sweeper, 100+ yard short straight, right sweeper), the LSD let me accelerate earlier and harder (and this is with better power) and brake significantly later (with better stability) than I normally do. I'm sure the improved HP/Torque helped some, but my top speed before the right hand turn was nearly 10 miles an hour quicker than I normally go (I wish I had data acquisition). If only half of that difference is from the LSD (and I think it's greater), that has to be huge on a racetrack. I can't reasonably justify it being worth less than 1 1/2 to 2% on a typical American track time... unless I'm way off somewhere (and I am tired and exuberant), that should be worth at least 1 second (and as much as 2 seconds) at Laguna Seca.

stevecolletti

You know, that >1 second at LS number just seems too big, but no matter how I 'reprocess' or 'reweigh' the data, that 1 second keeps looking like a conservative number.

Maybe it's more of a 'feel' or 'comfort' thing whose value isn't worth that to others, but might be to me??

I'd love to be able to quantify the LSD's value, but other than a real comparison - Pre-LSD times versus post-LSD times, on similar days, preferably with multiple drivers of mixed experience - I don't know how possible that is.

orthojoe

Calling Ben... Ben... anyone? anyone?

Perhaps this could be my secret weapon that gets me closer to Ben's laptimes.... sshhhhhh. How much does one of these LSDs cost? Maybe I'll put it in the 'budget' for next year since the PCCB conversion will eat up this year's budget.

lithium1330

great pictures and sounds like a fun gtg. Thanks for sharing. i need to have a more serious talk with my mgmt about reloc to the bay area. :-/

stevecolletti

You're the perfect candidate to quantify it, Joe - enough laps to be consistent and to know where you are gaining and losing time.
Can you swap-out an LSD in a pdk, now?

I think it was around $4K installed, with Kali taxes.
http://www.sharkwerks.com/products.php?pid=382

It's always fun meeting Rl'ers, but visiting is a lot cheaper than relocating, especially from FL, where there is no state income tax. You can visit (multiple times a year) in first class and it will still be a lot less expensive.

Oh, and no 93-octane gas, either - but you'll pay more for 91-octane than you do now.