the_vetman

For those of us who love both the 987/981 and GT3s:

(Argh, it got moved... if they would only pay as much attention to the 986/987/981/Cayman/Cayman S delineation/forum separation issue???!!! )

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/...3-answers.html

Decided I'll move it here as well:

With Andreas Preuninger:


PDK only, rear wheel steering, electromechanical steering, no more Mezger engine, no CGT/Club Sport seats, larger, heavier. God help us.

On the positive side: 9k RPM, 475 bhp, "no need" for PDCC, steel brakes still standard.

BTW, Andreas challenges anyone to drive it to compare the steering feel. He guarantees that it's exactly the same. We shall see.

stevecolletti

Since that engine is 9A1-derived, it will (likely) be the part of the new 'GT3' that I'm interested in.
Swapping that engine into a Cayman (or Spyder) should be relatively easy (at least compared to the Mezger) and offer much more than a 'standard' 3.8 upgrade.

And I'd expect that car (with the engine in the right place) would completely overwhelm the 991 'GT3'. Plus, you'd get a choice of transmissions and no CLs!

How much will that engine cost and who's first to do the swap?

perfectlap

seems like everyone has been duped into thinking that a GT3 PDK car isn't an automatic Porsche.

fast1

But the PDK is a manual transmission. It doesn't have a torque converter. Now having stated that, I still wouldn't want one because I find them boring to drive. Also, just wondering how much it will cost to replace the clutches in a PDK. I'm expecting that it won't be cheap.

orthojoe

I vote for you, Steve!

stevecolletti

Thanks... though I will be watching that engine closely.

perfectlap

It is NOT a manual transmission. it's an automatic transmission without a torque converter.

You suggest a gear change, the comptuer mulls it over then it obliges the human driver by carrying out the change. There is an automatic interface, the servos/computer are doing the physical gear changing -- when it feels its most approriate. The paddles make you "feel" like you're in control but the paddles might as well be a keyboard button or doorbell. Ring me once for an upchange, ring me twice for a downchange. Then HAL will think about your human request.

PDK is simply a very refined automatic transmission that accepts song requests from the crowd. In a real manual transmission you are playing the guitar for the audience yourself. This was very obvious in the earlier PDK cars which had a noticeable lag. There is no lag in a manual -- driver and transmission are connected directly. The driver has the freedom of committing an error. PDK doesn't make a mistake because the driver is not in control of the actual gear change or clutch. But kudos to Porsche for improving PDK to create a nearly perfect "virtual" manual shifting experience in their automatic transmission.

Automatic steering inputs are probably not far behind.

p.s.
For the right price, I can live with a GT3 automatic. An engine that sophisticated and expensive to fix will probably live a longer, healthier life if HAL is in control of the transmission.
For a lightweight, midengine roadster not costing $170K with options, I can handle gear changing and clutch. Which underlines which is the purer, more driver-oriented sports car of the two now.

Alan Smithee

Not sure it would be any easier than the Mezger - it is a generation ahead of the 987 in every regard - I imagine almost nothing is compatible. It would be fantastic in a 981 Cayman, however, if it could be done...

The 991 GT3 was on my short list if I give up the Spyder at the end of its lease this month (it was always planned to be a stopgap until the 997 series was replaced), but I don't want an automatic (call it what you want) in my weekend fun car. Not happy about rear wheel steering, PTV, and all of the other electronic nonsense, either.

stevecolletti

The devil will be in the details.

Being derived from the 9A1, I'd expect most packaging details (a Mezger/987 issue) to be compatible with the 'lesser' 9A1s. I'm guessing that electronics will be the real problem.

+1 to everything you listed as GT3 cons... and I'd add CL to your list.

Noah Fect

The whole idea behind shifting is to make up for a shortcoming in the way IC engines work. Gearboxes were an unfortunate kludge on day one, and that's still universally true a hundred years later. The best thing a transmission can do is make me think I don't have one at all, right? That's what a twin-clutch automatic is trying to do. It's as if the guitar player's role in the band is solely limited to covering up the drummer's mistakes.

It's hard to see how that statement can be justified. There is a ton of lag in a manual transmission. It's in the wiring between your brain and your limbs, and it will never go away. It can only be fixed by taking the human out of that particular loop.

perfectlap

not if you are into driving quickly, turning the wheel often and perhaps even doing both simultaneously.

If you want a car that let's you forget you have a transmission then the beautiful new line of Lexus sedans await your test drive. They are perfectly over-engineered, whisper quiet, have beautiful plush leather seats, the wheels stay on as do the coolant hoses, they have two equisitely crafted cup holders and the cars will parallell park themselves while you wait for your latte inside the Starbucks.

different types of machinery for different types of driving.

Noah Fect

Good point, I guess that's why F1 cars still use manuals.

perfectlap

that's why F1 sucks now. snooze fest.

remember when Ayrton Senna came blasting down the swimming pool at Monaco qualifying in a 1000 HP JPS Lotus with an antique gear lever and everyone in the stands stood on their feet in awe?
That was not a PDK.

stevecolletti

+1 if you need (like current technology) to wait for something to happen.

But the human brain can operate predictively. Though people are working on a 'fix', so far only the driver can compensate/prepare for what will happen, as opposed to what is happening or has happened.

stevecolletti

I also remember Schumacher's brilliant Spanish GP drive in the Benetton, when he finished second after his Benetton stuck in 5th gear.
It didn't matter what transmission type that was.