tracking a standard cayman R/boxster spyder
08-22-2012, 09:31 AM
#31
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Khooni,
If you're gonna stay oin street tires and just do occasional days you can get by with stock suspension with as much negative camber up front that you can get. Plenty of track alignment recommendations out there, but just a tad toe out up front and a tad toe in out back and you'll be fine on street tires.
If you continue to use stock brake pads, keep an eye on wear. Once they (or any pad) reaches 50% thickness, they begin to wear exponentially faster and transfer more heat to the fluid. If you're trying to maintain your warranty, stay away from ATE Blue. It's nearly impossible to flush out all the dye and dealers have been known to void warranties as a result.
RE Fluids:
Mobil 1 engineer suggested no more than 2K miles of combined track/street driving based on heat related deterioration of M1 (specifically 15-50 which is thicker than our fill).
Mobiloil PTX 75-90 is the factory fill and the only transaxle fluid you should use with a stock transaxle due to the carbon content of the synchronizers. Not readily available in US but maybe different in Europe. I changed mine out at 10K miles and found an improvement in shifting. I suspect cleaner fluid may help the LSD last a little longer but not based on any objective data. It may help the transaxle (and by conduction the engine) run cooler.
Have a blast!
If you're gonna stay oin street tires and just do occasional days you can get by with stock suspension with as much negative camber up front that you can get. Plenty of track alignment recommendations out there, but just a tad toe out up front and a tad toe in out back and you'll be fine on street tires.
If you continue to use stock brake pads, keep an eye on wear. Once they (or any pad) reaches 50% thickness, they begin to wear exponentially faster and transfer more heat to the fluid. If you're trying to maintain your warranty, stay away from ATE Blue. It's nearly impossible to flush out all the dye and dealers have been known to void warranties as a result.
RE Fluids:
Mobil 1 engineer suggested no more than 2K miles of combined track/street driving based on heat related deterioration of M1 (specifically 15-50 which is thicker than our fill).
Mobiloil PTX 75-90 is the factory fill and the only transaxle fluid you should use with a stock transaxle due to the carbon content of the synchronizers. Not readily available in US but maybe different in Europe. I changed mine out at 10K miles and found an improvement in shifting. I suspect cleaner fluid may help the LSD last a little longer but not based on any objective data. It may help the transaxle (and by conduction the engine) run cooler.
Have a blast!
Thanks for the tip on trans fluid. When is the factory schedule for a change?
I intend to stick with stock everything until I get smooth enough and can heel toe/trail brake smoothly as i head for the apex.
08-22-2012, 11:12 AM
#32
Nordschleife Master
I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but I couldn't heel/toe well until I switched to a GT3 master cylinder. Before the swap I couldn't put enough pressure on the brake pedal to threshold brake AND blip the thottle at the same time because the brake pedal would drop too low. If I was easy on the brake and started braking early, then I could do it. Then my lap times suffered. Get a GT3 master cylinder. You'll thank me later...
Your other option is to get some track pads, which will firm up the pedal enough where H/T is better. If you're running PCCBs, though, that's not an option.
Are you using the foot roll or heel stab method?
08-22-2012, 01:09 PM
#33
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I am using the heel stab method as it is more natural for me.
I really dun think that is my problem. I think it is because I am not blipping the throttle hard enough for fear of ramming it into the limiter (which shouldn't be a problem) really and a general lack of practise. I think about the process too much rather than let it come to me. I am going to short shift on my next trackday so I can practise at a less frantic pace. Going from my steelies CR to my PCCB spyder with a shorter travel did not improve things. I know you have advocated an even firmer and shorter travel but the difference between steels and PCCBs should have an effect and they don't. On my track and my cars, the limiting factor is tyres not brakes and CR/.spyder PCCBs don't save that much weight over steels. With more practise (ie prolly 3 more tarck days this year), I'll let you know if I have exorcised the heel toe demon. Anyways, thanks for the recommendations.
I really dun think that is my problem. I think it is because I am not blipping the throttle hard enough for fear of ramming it into the limiter (which shouldn't be a problem) really and a general lack of practise. I think about the process too much rather than let it come to me. I am going to short shift on my next trackday so I can practise at a less frantic pace. Going from my steelies CR to my PCCB spyder with a shorter travel did not improve things. I know you have advocated an even firmer and shorter travel but the difference between steels and PCCBs should have an effect and they don't. On my track and my cars, the limiting factor is tyres not brakes and CR/.spyder PCCBs don't save that much weight over steels. With more practise (ie prolly 3 more tarck days this year), I'll let you know if I have exorcised the heel toe demon. Anyways, thanks for the recommendations.
08-22-2012, 02:54 PM
#34
Nordschleife Master
I do the heel stab as well. My spyder is PCCB equipped. In stock form the pedal travel still sucks, so I wouldn't expect the PCCB to make a difference over the steels. You might be having a hard time blipping the throttle far enough because there is too big of a differential in pedal height between the brake and throttle. If you are able to do it, I would be suspicious that you aren't really threshold braking because that pedal has to go down LOW to reach threshold.
I'm going to eventually convince you to get a GT3 master cylinder.
The guys that don't use the GT3 master cylinder and are happy with the stock one are the guys using track pads. That's not an option for us PCCB guys. OK, I'm done now. I'm not trying to be difficult. The pedal travel on these cars is a sore subject for me.
I'm going to eventually convince you to get a GT3 master cylinder.
The guys that don't use the GT3 master cylinder and are happy with the stock one are the guys using track pads. That's not an option for us PCCB guys. OK, I'm done now. I'm not trying to be difficult. The pedal travel on these cars is a sore subject for me.
08-22-2012, 03:46 PM
#35
Three Wheelin'
I'm with Joe on the GT3 Master, but the eGas throttle has pretty big delay built into it, too. If you have sport chrono, you'll notice the difference between the on/off settings immediately when blipping the throttle for downshifts.
The eGas delay is the primary reason I 'chip' the DMEs in all our Porsches.
The eGas delay is the primary reason I 'chip' the DMEs in all our Porsches.
08-22-2012, 05:34 PM
#36
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I am not ruling this out but will try the stock setup for a couple more track days this year before I conclude whether the setup is an issue for me or just my driving. At least, by the time I come round to the idea, I will know for sure 
08-22-2012, 05:36 PM
#37
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I'm with Joe on the GT3 Master, but the eGas throttle has pretty big delay built into it, too. If you have sport chrono, you'll notice the difference between the on/off settings immediately when blipping the throttle for downshifts.
The eGas delay is the primary reason I 'chip' the DMEs in all our Porsches.
The eGas delay is the primary reason I 'chip' the DMEs in all our Porsches.
08-22-2012, 10:07 PM
#38
Three Wheelin'
To do that the DME needs to cache the throttle inputs for a period of time - smoothing the inputs. This means that the engine response is always behind throttle inputs, and not necessarily indicative of the driver's goal.
01-01-2013, 05:56 AM
#39
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
thread resurrection.
Can someone let me know what is the RSS LCA part number for the spyder? Is it 358 or 361. I would think it is the 358.
while I am getting that installed and getting an alignment with about 2 degrees of camber, is there any other upgrade I should think of doing?
Can someone let me know what is the RSS LCA part number for the spyder? Is it 358 or 361. I would think it is the 358.
while I am getting that installed and getting an alignment with about 2 degrees of camber, is there any other upgrade I should think of doing?
01-02-2013, 06:57 AM
#41
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
i'll get the 361 as well then
can anyone share the alignment spec.s I should be targeting for the spyder and the difference between factory standard? Thanks
can anyone share the alignment spec.s I should be targeting for the spyder and the difference between factory standard? Thanks
01-02-2013, 09:49 AM
#43
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
khooni keep us posted on the differences after the alignment. Most importantly let us know if your Spyder was out of alignment to begin with. I'm 6k and 2 years into my Spyder and I want to get an idea on alignment frequency for our cars.
01-02-2013, 11:42 AM
#44
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
yes I will. Particularly because I have not driven my michigan spyder for 6 months and I have been banging on about the heavier control weights in the spyder versus the CR. Still think I need a 996 Gt3 in my life.....
