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Just in case anyone of you here is looking for a PTS 991...this is a great deal!
Originally Posted by biglare
Looks like Blue Grass Motorsport in Kentucky has a Signal Green GT3
for sale. The dealer is saying that it is not signal green and that is is
just called "green". Hmmm....
Thanks for the heads up, biglare!
This much we know. It is not one of the ten late allocation
MY2015 gt3's done in 'Signal Green'. Much earlier VIN # &
built in 9/2014. So it had to be (for example) for a customer
that ordered a PTS 2014 gt3 and it was pushed into an early
MY2015 production allocation (& keeping his/her PTS status).
****
As for the color, it could indeed be just 'Green' or '2D8'. That
is the color specially formulated for the 2007/2008 .1 997 gt3
RS, which is still a popular PTS color.
The dealer should know. There is a sticker (as you know) which
list the color and it should be attached to the car at some location.
*****
I think the price is a steal for this car with only 546 miles:
From the PTS reference thread on the 991 gt3 forum but worth
posting here too:
***
Originally Posted by RSGT
You won't regret Signal Green.I had the same problem with my
Signal green Spyder.The 4 greens are all very close to each other.
IMO Viper is a little bit to dark,a little bit to aggressive. Signal and
Green 2D8 are "lighter" and look nearly equal. Perhaps Green 2D8
is the safest choice. The pics above show from left to right Viper,
Green 2D8, Signal green, Puregreen and Gelbgrün.
Gerald
Ludwigsburg,Germany
This NEW display of PTS samples on a black background is just a few
months old at the Porsche Factory Delivery area of Zuffenhausen. It
wasn't there when I last visited in July (2015). Here is a stunning photo
of it posted by 997sc, one of our Rennlist readers from Germany:
***
There is still a side room in that delivery area that is used for 'Porsche
Exclusive' consultations with customers & has a similar display of color
samples, but on a background wall that is 'white':
***
The thing that I want all readers to pay attention from the photos above
is how varying light on the color samples makes the hue appear completely
different (rsgt vs 997sc vs mine). Also how the color looks on a photograph
will depend on the camera lens & filters used.
So caveat lector. Do not make a definite conclusion on any a Porsche PTS
color based on PHOTOS posted here (by me or anyone else) of a sample
chip or an actual car. You need to see the color in person to let you eyes
judge for itself the hue & tint. My dos centavos, for what it's worth.
Eduardo, is there a typical pattern to when PTS opens & closes?
Ian:
Yes, there is a typical pattern but PAG does not appear to be
following it at present time. It was also not followed very well
for MY2015 either!
Back in the 'good old days', PTS was strictly an insiders' 'play'
that was a rare occurrence as a custom request. When it was
ordered, it was usually done by a veteran Porsche customer
looking for the ultimate personalization of his or her car. Or
it was the gutsy decision of a savvy & self-assured dealer
employing a 'differentiation' strategy for his normally staid
& unadventurous inventory of 'colors'.
The PTS window would normally go up when the ordering
books were open to dealers for a particular Model Year.
And they would normally close by December (or just four
months into the 'normal' model year production season).
PAG back then had a nasty habit of bunching PTS production
of all of those orders in the late Spring and they would arrive
at US dealers just months before the new model year was
announced. Overall, not the best logistics for those daring
enough to order PTS for any given year.
In recent years, PTS production at Porsche seems to have
been scheduled more regularly, although it requires at a
minimum three months from placing PTS order (assuming
an already approved color) to production date. So, for
example, some PTS 991 & 981 have been built in the Fall
& delivered to customers early in the model year! So that
I consider 'progress' in the PTS program!
After the moratorium on PTS for MY2015 announced by
PAG in Sept or so of 2014, we were told that PAG would
be reviewing the entire PTS process and institute changes
that would improve customer satisfaction with the order
process for MY2016. So for the latter, PAG opened the PTS
windows on most models in the Spring of 2015 to coincide
with the normal dealer order books for the new model year
products. The exception seemed to be the '16 .1 991 gt3
RS model, which was overwhelmed with PTS demand that
was apparently not anticipated by PAG. So they improvised
& finally came up with a system for it which turned out to
be a bit chaotic (and frankly unfair to many of their good
customers -see Witek's email below). For just about every
Porsche model of sport cars, PTS demand was unusually
high for MY2016, which was not surprising given the partial
moratorium in MY2015, the stop sale of the '14 991 gt3 in
MY2014 & the incredible popularity of PTS threads at forums
such as Rennlist (which attract a world wide readership)
since we started truly delving into the subject in 2012.
As a result of this higher demand, PAG met their PTS
quotas for all of their allocated MY2016 PTS rather early
& closed the PTS window for most models in July of 2015.
This is the email that I received from Melissa Witek,
of PCNA's 'Porsche Exclusive', on the subject of the
PTS window back on July 13th, while I in the midst
of my visit to Germany last summer!
Melissa Witek
Attachments7/13/15
to me,
Hello Eduardo,
I hope all is well. Please allow me to jump in and
assist with your below questions (in red):
1) Has the PTS window now closed (effective as of July 6th)? PTS is closed for certain models.
2) Does it impact both 991 gt3 RS and regular 991/981 models?
Or just 991 gt3 RS?PTS is closed for 911's and
regular Boxsters from July 3 on. PTS is closed for the GT3 RS
from July 6 on.
3) I assume there are gt3 RS customers that were approved for
PTS prior to the 'window' closing. Are these RS' customer orders
in PTS colors - 'Signal Green', 'Gelbgrün', 'Riviera Blue', et al. -
proceed as scheduled?If the dealer inputted the
PTS color in the client's order, and the color is on the pre-approved
PTS list, then the order will be accepted and honored.
4) Are some customers that requested PTS but were never
approved going now to have option to choose 'Black', 'Racing Yellow'
or 'Miami Blue'? When will they be told? As long as the order has an approved PTS color on
it now, then that client will have the option to switch to Black, Racing
Yellow, or Miami Blue to cut down the 5-month delay to approximately
a 4-week delay instead.
5) Are 'Black', 'Racing Yellow' & 'Miami Blue' going to cost $3140,
or $5500, for your RS customers?$5,500
6) Is the new 'Miami Blue' based on the 1957 356A 'Aquamarine',
but just a few shades off? Sort of how the new 'Lava Orange' is
based on 'Tangerine/Blutorange' or 'Club Blau' is based on 'Acid Blue'? Similar, but Miami Blue is a little lighter. Please see attached.
When I compare it to Riviera or Mexico Blue, the Miami Blue sample
has a lot more green in it:
7) Why is 'Ultraviolet' going to be discontinue after November
991 gt3 RS production?I do not know the future
plans for Ultraviolet after November.
8) When will US customers with MY2016 gt3 RS allocations that
have requested 'PTS' (and have filed their wishes with 'Porsche
Exclusive' via their dealers as was requested by PCNA earlier)
be notified whether or not their PTS requests will be honored/
approved/allowed? The dealer can see if the
paint has been ordered, and should alert their customers accordingly.
9) Were any of the limited MY2016 gt3 (non RS) allocated to
US dealers allowed to be done in PTS?No.
***
Here was a report, apparently that came from Porsche UK,
that was posted by Donavan here on this 981 forum back
in September of 2015:
***
So far (& I talked to Barbara Boeckenhoff, head of
'Porsche Exclusive/Personal Design' for PCNA in North
America just three days ago!) PTS has not yet opened
for MY2017 sport models at Porsche. So Ms. Boeckenhoff
doesn't yet know when that window will open. Perhaps, it
will be soon...but nobody except those responsible for PTS
at Porsche (not even those at 'Porsche Exclusive' department)
know for certain!
So in summary, this is not PTS business as usual at PAG.
Ian, I hope this long post was of some assistance in
answering your excellent question.
Posted on the 991 gt3 forum and might be of interest to some here.
*****
Originally Posted by Z356
Did you ask 'Porsche Excusive' staff about the color of the
'green' .1 991 gt3 RS that you saw in the back of Werk II
at Zuffenhausen that you thought might be 'Gelbgrün'?
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
*
Originally Posted by RSGT
The green on the right is Gelbgrün (I took the samples from the
wall and read the color names). The GT3 RS I saw a few weeks
ago at the factory is confirmed as Gelbgrün.
Gerald
Ludwigsburg,Germany
Thank you for the response, Gerald. That 'Gelbgrün' 991 gt3 RS,
when they finally put on the back bumper, will be stunning!
****
Originally Posted by Jon70
Signal and 2D8 look nearly identical
They are not when you see them in person.
And 'Signal Green' color code W25, which is
what I had on my 2007 .1 997 Carrera S &
has more yellow tint that my present 'Signal
Green' color code 22S gt3, is even less so!
See my old W25 'Signal Green' photographed next
to a 'RS Green'/'Green' 2D8 .1 997 gt3 RS! See for
yourself what the camera captures about the two colors
next to each other- same light, same lens, same camera!
From the 981 'custom ordering' thread but perhaps of interest
to some of you here.
***
Originally Posted by STG991
Eduardo can speak to this better, but from my knowledge they
have capacity issues with being able to handle so much. I don't
believe it's a program that makes them much profits, and more
of a niche option to offer the discerning clients. If they advertised
it, they'd be even more overwhelmed than they are now.
Somehow BMW, McLaren, possibly Audi, and some of the others
have thought it out and planned more accordingly for their specific
customization programs. Like many things with PAG/PCNA, there
seem to be many unknowns and
Overall, it is what it is I suppose.
Well George, 'it is what it is'...but it's rather puzzling in any case!
If they didn't want to advertise PTS, then why any of these videos?
And if they didn't want the world to know about PTS, why build
this impressive 'mural' at Zuffenhausen in such a prominent place?
***
PTS needs to be done more effectively at Porsche. We
have been trying to make that point over & over again
in the many threads here at Rennlist on the PTS subject.
And I am trying right now to see if they will let me interview
the folks at PTS in Germany that are the PTS decision
makers at Porsche to give them an opportunity to explain
to us, the loyal customers & enthusiast base, how they at
PTS view the Paint-to-Sample program, how they allocate
slots for PTS in regular production, what are the bottlenecks
or issues that limit its growth, etc. I will report back exactly
what they tell me. I am hopeful that this interview will be
allowed this Spring. I am willing to fly to Germany at my
expense to do this interview & then report back to all of
you here.
Thank you Eduardo. I was approved PTS inside the window, but had not chosen a color. When it came time to lock, I submitted slate grey uni, but when finally submitted was denied
Thank you Eduardo. I was approved PTS inside the window, but
had not chosen a color. When it came time to lock, I submitted
slate grey uni, but when finally submitted was denied
That is really too bad, Ian. One of the reasons why I write so
much about PTS (& try to explain the often arbitrary nature of
the whole process) is to prevent readers from making simple
mistakes in the ordering process.
In this case, Ian, all I can say is given the PTS process as we
know it, it's incumbent on a customer to be ready with his/her
PTS color from the approved list once your allocation is confirmed
by your dealer & PCNA within the PTS window. Do not let it
hang out there without choosing a PTS color. Pick one...and
if you change your mind later, fight that battle at a later date.
But do not miss the opportunity of PTS simply because you
are trying too hard to keep all your color choices open. Do
your due diligence on PTS colors way ahead of the ordering
process. Remember, in PTS at Porsche, the early bird gets
the PTS worm....and there seldom (or none) second chances
at biting at the Porsche PTS 'apple' once that window is shut!
Posted on the 991 gt3 forum but perhaps of interest
to others here on this thread!
***
Originally Posted by AC SATCO
Eduardo. My RS coming lists signalgrün code 22S.
On your photo of the swatches there are two signals,
but neither are the code mine has. What's the deal?
Is there another signalgrün? What will show up at
my door? Hmmmm
Yes, the only 'Signal Green' approved for the 991/981
at the present time is color code 22S. That is the color
of my gt3 and every single other 'Signal Green' 991 or
981 that has been done since 2012.
***
My understanding is that the original 'vintage' early 911 era
'Signal Green' was color code 217:
So that is why the factory has a color chip with 'Signal Green'
as color code 217. These photos were taken by me during my
visit to Zuffenhausen in 2013:
***
For reasons we do not yet fully know why, some customer in the
2006/2007 period requested a version of 'Signal Green' that had
a bit more yellow tint in the mix than the older color code 217
(or 22S) 'Signal Green' formula. Why they called that new color
'Signal Green' is surprising...and confusing. That became the
'Signal Green' of color code W25.
I personally owned one such a W25 PTS 'Signal Green' .1 997 of
MY2007 vintage. My Carrera S was ordered on spec by Pioneer
Porsche of San Diego (presently Porsche of San Diego) & bought
new by a friend & fellow R Gruppe member from Arizona. I fell
in love at first sight & hounded him until he sold it to me three
& 1/2 years after taking delivery new in the summer of 2007.
And there were at least two other .1 997 Carreras ordered by
US dealers in the US of W25 'Signal Green'.
This MY2007 4S coupe was also ordered on spec by Pioneer
in San Diego:
*
And this MY2008 Carrera S cabriolet ordered on spec by
Porsche of West Houston:
*
Plus at least one .2 997 gt3 RS ordered by Suncoast Porsche
in Florida!
***
Unfortunately, I crashed that 'Signal Green' Carrera S shortly
after I got it in 2011. But I still have the original rear deck lid
of that car, which had been removed by the first owner to install
the aero-kit front & rear on that car (below in original spec):
But fortunately, that rear deck panel has its original W25
'Signal Green' factory original paint on it:
And if you see that W25 version of 'Signal Green' and then
compare it to the 22S version currently of 'Signal Green',
you will be able to tell the difference between the two
colors:
Personally, I find the W25 version of 'Signal Green' more
to my liking simply because it has a more pronounce hint
of yellow tint in the mixture. But it's all a matter of personal
opinion & taste.
***
When 'Signal Green' was resurrected as a color by Porsche
and added as a standard selection in MY1991/1992, the color
code became known as 22S, not 217.
I do not know why the original color code 217 was not retained.
Was the formula altered somewhat? Back in 2009, I found the
following posts in Pelican that addressed the issue of codes &
formulas for 'Signal Green':
So I don't know where that really leaves us. The only thing I know
for sure is that 22S looks closer to the original 217 (with a bluer
tint) than W25, which has a more pronounced yellow tint. In any
case, the current formula for the color 'Signal Green' at Porsche
today is 22S. And it's derived from the version of the hue that
offered by PAG back in 1991/1992 as a no/cost standard color
on the 964, 968 & 928!
Hope this primer on 'Signal Green' is of some assistance to you
AC Satco & other 'Signal Green' fans at Rennlist!
I agree 100% that the w25 is a much better color. I suspect that due to modern paint restrictions, many new colors are not as intense. I also think lava orange pales in comparison to blood orange (pun intended). Note that there are also two specs for slate grey... Go figure!
The problem is not that the synthetic color threads are hard to find.
Porsche has suppliers that can provide them with any color thread.
These were actual samples of color threads brought by Sascha Glaeser
(then Manager of 'Porsche Exclusive' at PCNA) to the 2012 Parade in
Salt Lake City for his 'Porsche Exclusive' display. And which I was able
to photograph at the event:
********
And other auto manufacturers have the same type of color threads
available to them. Here are photos I took at 'Audi Exclusive' at its
Neckarsulm facility in 2013. The color sample is 2D8 or 'RS Green'
from the 2007/2008 .1 997 gt3 RS.
Notice that according to Audi the correct 'matching' thread that they
though Porsche used for matching deviating stitching thread on a
2D8 'RS Green' exterior is not the brighter Serafil Color 1427 (the
Instagram photo at the top):
...but a different Serafil green color (less bright/more subtle):
Here is a photo of the matching 'green' deviated stitching on a
.1 997 gt3 RS with 'RS Green' exterior color:
*******
Regardless, the problem is not that color threads for deviating stitching
are not available or are hard to find. The problem is that Porsche has
experienced in the past warranty issues that have become very expensive
for them re: threads used on the seats. Some of these synthetic threads
have been less than reliable and became an issue over wear & tear over
time. And that is an issue that an auto manufacturer like PAG takes very
seriously. Back in 2012, PAG stopped offering deviated stitching on the
seats of their 991 & 981 until they could decide what to replace the color
threads with. I can show you many examples of customer & factory
cars that had deviated stitching in dash, door panels, etc, but not on
the seats. This is a PTS 'Lichtgrün'/'Birch Green' Carrera S cabriolet
that I photographed at Zuffenhausen in early 2013:
That problem was eventually solved and PAG started offering deviating
stitching on seat surfaces soon after that. But it shows you that they
have problems from time to time & they can be extremely expensive
since it might required a warranty repair or exchange which is very
costly. As a result, PAG is very careful about their offerings of deviating
stitching colors.
I have been personally trying to get PAG to a least one 'green' deviating
stitching that might go with 'Signal Green', 'RS Green', 'Viper Green' and
'Pure Green' since 2012. And it was only recently that PAG offered 'Acid
Green' to their .1 991 gt3 RS clients. I am still hopeful that they will allow
at least another 'green' & 'blue' deviating stitching to coordinate better
with the basic PTS 'greens' and 'blues' currently available to customers.
*****
As an aside, a case can be made that 'Racing Yellow' deviating stitching
will work extremely well with 'Lichtgrün' / 'Birch Green'. We were told
a while ago that these two photos were of 'Racing Yellow' deviating
stitch. And the reason is that 'Racing Yellow' has quite a bit of green
tint to it:
But so will 'Acid Green'. That is what the factory used on this special
custom 'Porsche Exclusive' show car that I photographed in 2013:
Or this 'Edition 918 Spyder' 911 Turbo back in the late 997 days:
**********
I don't really know how 'Acid Green' deviating stitching will work with
'Signal Green' or 'Viper Green'. But I assume it will be OK, although
not optimal since neither 'Signal' nor 'Viper' has as much 'yellow' tint
as 'Lichtgrün'/'Birch Green'. Regardless, I would take the chance of
going with the 'Acid Green' deviating stitching on a 'Signal Green' or
'Viper Green' exterior. But then again, I am a fan of deviating stitching
in the extreme!
PTS window opens on MY2017 .2 991...& cost goes to $6,950!!!!
I just got a message from a respected US Porsche veteran customer that
Paint to Sample window has opened for some models of the MY2017 .2 991.
The big news is that the price has gone up from $5500 to $6,950!
According to my source, the information was confirmed by Melissa Witek
at 'Porsche Exclusive' in Atlanta. The 'Interior to Sample' window also has
opened.
We don't yet have confirmation that the PTS window has opened for the
718 (982), but it's expected that will be announced shortly.
From another thread but thought it might be of interest to
some here too!
*****
Originally Posted by lessthan3mph
That's good to know. Thanks for passing on that info Eduardo.
Anyone have the most recent list of colours? Or is the PTS list still secret?
Yes, some of us have received it but I, for one, have chosen
not to post it on Rennlist until we get PAG to change its recent
decision (since July 2015) to keep the list 'Confidential'. The
latest date for the list I have is Nov 17th, 2015:
I will continue to fight for the right to make it public for the
foreseeable future. I just talked to Barbara Boeckenhoff,
Manager, Porsche Exclusive - Personal Design at PCNA just
last week to remind her that I wanted an opportunity to
make my case in person to PTS officials in Zuffenhausen.
We will have to wait & see if they decide to see me.
However, the fact that even though the list is 'for internal
use only & confidential', it doesn't mean that a dealer
can not pass it on to it to any legitimate Porsche customer,
or potential new customer!
So each of you that is interested in PTS on a future Porsche
custom order should ask your authorized Porsche dealer for
it & see if he will share it with you. If he/she doesn't, I would
contact Barbara Boeckenhoff at PCNA Atlanta & ask how you
are supposed to decide on a PTS colors if you can't have
access to the latest approved PTS list?
02-04-2016, 04:02 PM
Just in case anyone of you here is looking for a PTS 991...this is a great deal!
