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Eduardo, Porsche seems to be the best in the business when it comes to cashing in on consumers desire for bespoke customization. But is it possible that, PTS is actually underpriced, and that it is a legacy policy that worked well for a small company but is no longer viable for a large company? Is the "cost" to them in the disruption of logistics just too high? Was this option always a gift to the faithful, and a loss that was worth the trouble? Until so many people decided to to do it, it was likely bearable, but has become impossible at their current scale? We the customers have no real idea of the actual cost to Porsche or the havoc it wreaks internally. Just a theory....
Eduardo, Porsche seems to be the best in the business when it comes to cashing in on consumers desire for bespoke customization.
But is it possible that, PTS is actually underpriced, and that it is a legacy policy that worked well for a small company but is no longer
viable for a large company? Is the "cost" to them in the disruption of logistics just too high? Was this option always a gift to the faithful,
and a loss that was worth the trouble? Until so many people decided to to do it, it was likely bearable, but has become impossible at their
current scale? We the customers have no real idea of the actual cost to Porsche or the havoc it wreaks internally. Just a theory....
Ian: Yes, I agree its a very real possibility. I have been talking that PTS is underpriced at Porsche for a very long time. Here are excerpts
from a post I wrote back in 8/19/2014 at the 991 gt3 forum:
"
As an aside, if you think 'White' is hard to match on the plastic bumper of a gt3, imagine PAG's Quality
Control engineers or the bean counters in their Warranty Department enormous concern (technical &
financial) for matching PTS colors on those bumpers and avoiding this type of warranty issues on those
special custom-paint cars!!!! If you look it from their perspective, they would cancel PTS and CXX special
options in a nano-second. That PTS is still alive at Porsche is a miracle...regardless the $5500 expense.
The engineers and accountants would rather not take the risk of the warranty claims. And if you look at
the expense of feasibility study for color, PTS paint ordering & handling process, the additional logistical
issues involved in coordinating all the painted parts that goes into a vehicle (e.g. a gt3) and the accounting
reserves in case of warranty claims, PAG might be able to make the case they break even, or lose money,
on each PTS order they sell! What they gain by PTS is not profit...but the ability to satisfy a client with the
ultimate personal customization of his/her vehicle, something which is not often offered by the competition.
That is the key benefit of PTS & 'Porsche Exclusive'. Remember all of this when you hear folks complaining
about the 'high cost' of PTS at Porsche...it's a bargain in my opinion."
Steven has valid points which I would like to address. And I am also adding
some additional bits of information & my personal opinion to the mix so that
others can make up their own minds on this topic. My comments will be in
'RED' or 'BLUE'.
Originally Posted by Steven_H
I suspect that one reason for Porsche's reluctance to be more 'transparent' is
their attitude toward PTS. In the recent past - 3 years ago - PTS cars were very
limited, there was no 'approved' list, and ordering a car PTS was difficult and
oblique. In this way, Porsche was able to maintain the 'exclusive' aspect of program.
That may have been the results but not the intent. I'll explain further below.
***
I think Porsche Exclusives began in 1986 in Germany
Correct. 'Porsche Exclusive', as we know it today, was founded in 1986.
***
and I believe it was Sasha who convinced Porsche to open an
Exclusives department in the US, with initially only him in California
and later Melissa on the East Coast.
Sascha Glaeser, who recently left his employment at Porsche, indeed
staffed the initial dedicated 'Porsche Exclusive' effort in the US. He
devised the business case for ‘International Customer Consultation’
& got it approved. But he actually arrived in the US to do that job in
February 2011...so fairly recently. Not by coincidence, I started posting
about what one could do via 'Porsche Exclusive' not long after that in
September of 2011:
Most dealers were relatively unaware of what was possible. My sense
it was based on the Special Wishes (Sonderwunsche) department at
the factory which began in the early 1950s and pretty much served the
Porsche family, Near Eastern collectors and friends of the factory.
This is very true. Porsche has been doing 'Special Wishes' for customers
from just about the very start of the company. I once had a 1960 356
Roadster with a special kill switch from factory that was not on the option's
list. And you might remember that I often talk about Porsche's MY1970 color
offerings, which set a record at 9 regular colors & 21 'special colors' for a
choice of 30. But even with this array of choices, Porsche still allowed
1.3% of production in MY1970 to be paint to sample orders! So of the
over 15,000 911s & 914-6 built, nearly 200 cars were PTS in 1970!
But the official 'Sonderwunsche Programm', as the department came to
be known, did not officially start until 1978.
And in 1986, it's name was changed to 'Porsche Exclusive' and it celebrated
it's 25th Anniversary in 2011!
***
These rare cars were VERY special with modified bodywork, outrageous
interiors, etc. Costs of the modifications often exceeded $100k. My instinct
is that Porsche is not particularly interested in significantly expanding their
Exclusives department - rather it is something of a 'halo' operation.
Yes, one could get that idea from the many obstacles they seem to place in
the path of ordering these special & rare options. But that is probably not
how PAG perceives it. From Feb 2011 to May 2014, the period in which
Sascha Glaeser headed 'Porsche Exclusive' for PCNA, he reported that
vehicle option revenue increased by $3.75M and his department's target
goals were exceeded 25% for each of 2011 & 2012...and over 50% in
2013! So Porsche thinks of 'Porsche Exclusive' as a profit center and
is counting on its continued growth to reach its profitability goals here
& all other ROW markets!
***
My other instinct is that Porsche loses money on every PTS car - the
costs of testing, changing all the paint systems for a (very) few cars,
not to mention the all too time consuming process of ordering a Porsche
Exclusives car. Many people spend inordinate time NOT ordering a car.
Having ordered two PTS cars in unique colors and with lengthy Exclusives
options, I am enormously respectful and appreciative of what is a hugely
time consuming process for Porsche. And after reading the Forbes article,
I was reminded of the inordinate difficulty of convincing vendors to provide
unique versions of parts for only a few cars.
I don't really know for certain, but I have been speculating for years now
that PTS is a relative bargain and its cost to us doesn't reflect the potential
headaches to PAG, in terms of logistical planning & paint warranty issues
that could develop down the road. Here are excerpts from a post I wrote
back in 8/19/2014 at the 991 gt3 forum:
"
As an aside, if you think 'White' is hard to match on the plastic bumper of a gt3, imagine PAG's Quality
Control engineers or the bean counters in their Warranty Department enormous concern (technical &
financial) for matching PTS colors on those bumpers and avoiding this type of warranty issues on those
special custom-paint cars!!!! If you look it from their perspective, they would cancel PTS and CXX special
options in a nano-second. That PTS is still alive at Porsche is a miracle...regardless the $5500 expense.
The engineers and accountants would rather not take the risk of the warranty claims. And if you look at
the expense of feasibility study for color, PTS paint ordering & handling process, the additional logistical
issues involved in coordinating all the painted parts that goes into a vehicle (e.g. a gt3) and the accounting
reserves in case of warranty claims, PAG might be able to make the case they break even, or lose money,
on each PTS order they sell! What they gain by PTS is not profit...but the ability to satisfy a client with the
ultimate personal customization of his/her vehicle, something which is not often offered by the competition.
That is the key benefit of PTS & 'Porsche Exclusive'. Remember all of this when you hear folks complaining
about the 'high cost' of PTS at Porsche...it's a bargain in my opinion."
Finally, 'Exclusives' becomes an oxymoron when it becomes common.
Maybe. But Porsche's stated goal is to grow 'Porsche Exclusive' & not
keep it that 'exclusive'. The new manager of PCNA's 'Porsche Exclusive'
in the United States, Barbara Boeckenhoff, has an even bigger budget
for 2016...and has hired two additional staff members for its Beverly
Hills 'showroom' in addition to retaining Melissa Witek in Atlanta.
And 'Porsche Exclusive' is expanding in other ROW markets, such as
the Middle East with folks there like Torsten Horn! So, whether it comes
as a surprise to some or not, 'Porsche Exclusive' is growing! And I
don't see it becoming once again 'oblique' or 'veiled' anytime soon!
It's not like Porsche is not heavily advertising 'Porsche Exclusive' or
anything like that. In fact, it's just the opposite:
How many are aware that Mercedes offers Paint to Sample, for example?
Well, I have an even more important question to ask. How many
here know that 'Paint to Sample' is not part of 'Porsche Exclusive'?
It is not. So the 800 pound gorilla in the room present in this conversation
is 'Paint to Sample' which we always associate and mixed in with 'Porsche
Exclusive'. PTS is not run, organized, managed or controlled by 'Porsche
Exclusive'. It's is under separate management. And that is why I am
asking Porsche to let me have access to the people that run it and get
their perspective as to why they run it in the manner they currently do.
And also how they are planning to meet increased demand in the future.
***
Mercedes, BMW, Audi, to name just a few, do indeed offer its own PTS
program to their customers. But demand for it is just a small fraction
of the requests for this option at Porsche. And the reasons for that
smaller demand are many:
1) The size/shape of their vehicles often do not lend themselves to
unusual and/or bright colors!
2) Few auto manufactures have the iconic color period that Porsche
experienced in the late 1960's/early 1970's which define a sport car era!
3) Few manufacturers have enthusiast websites like Rennlist with
up-to-the-minute information on PTS (e.g. this thread for example)
like we provide that is helping drive the interest up on this rare option!
Brilliant and thorough as usual, Eduardo. I think PAG could satisfy a significant number of PTS seeking customers if they merely expanded their color palette (in MY 1967, they offered something like 37 different colors for order while producing less than 10K cars). I don't think they have to offer 50 colors, but to not have a single green (my pet peeve) since the 991 was introduced baffles me. Even if Porsche Racing Green over tan wasn't an ideal launch color in the 997.2, I think banishing all greens was a bit of an overreaction.
They could take the existing approved PTS list, make 10%, 20% or some number available as a $3500 or so "special" color, drawing from popular PTS colors in the past five years (Viper, Riviera, Mexico, Arena, etc). I'm sure their algorithms could predict a certain # of orders in the subset of colors chosen, avoiding the "one off" problem of matching paints to parts.
I'm out of the market for a good while, as I am quite content with my Anthracite TT and my (on the Talia due in Davisville the 16th) inbound DBM Boxster GTS, so perhaps I'm overthinking things?
What about this? Is it an upcoming factory option or an aftermarket item? I put down my deposit last week on a racing yellow GT4 for April delivery. I sure would like to have this feature! The photo is from an article that recently appeared on motor world.com
Just in case you are not familiar with PTS 'Olympic Blue'...
A friend just received this particular gt4 in the beautiful 'Olympic Blue' PTS color. The hue dates back from the 914 era.
*****
Here are some photos I took of 'Olympic Blue' at 'Porsche Exclusive' in Zuffenhausen last July:
Photo 1
Photo 2
Photo 3
******
A 914 in 'Olympic Blue'
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
PS Note how camera lenses fail sometimes. In photo 1, 'Olympic Blue'
looks pretty 'blue'. As I take photo #2, the same damn camera turns
the 'Blue' a little bit 'grey'. Never trust photos of colors...you need to
see them in person!
Wow, crazy how different it looks in these pics and on the dealers
Facebook page. Eduardo is it closer to Gulf or Riviera in real life?
It has more 'life' than 'Gulf', less intense 'Blue' tint than 'Riviera',
& less 'Green' tint than the new 'Miami'! The friend who ordered
the 'Olympic Blue' gt4 was thinking that the color might be closer
to 'Crystal Blue', a late '60s vintage 911 color as found in my original
paint 1970 911E Targa that you can see in my Rennlist avatar!
Here is what he wrote to me:
"I was thinking of how much I admired your crystal blue targa
when I ordered this!! PTS Olympic Blue - a 914 color...I know
that this color will draw comments both plus and minus, but I
view the Boxster/Cayman series as the modern day 914 and
thought the color was unique and appropriate. Plus, your car
looks so amazing that I thought this similar color would be
fun to own."
Hopefully we will be able to check out at some point how close
'Olympic Blue' is to the old 'Crystal Blau', but I appreciate the
compliment & tribute to the color on my '70 911E Targa!
Eduardo or anyone else in the know-
Has anyone been able to confirm whether or not Porsche batch paints PTS cars??? The reason I ask is someone I know in Germany has ordered the exact color as my Spyder. Their original production was moved to February, but today his dealer notified him that within the Porsche tracking, his order was updated and it now shows his order leaving production December 25th!!! So quite a bit earlier than his quote prior. If they do batch paint, that could be good news for me (unless they do it via country ordered???). My allocation went v215 about a month ago with a planned January 29th production exit. I plan on contacting my dealer tomorrow to see if any updates were applied to mine as well.
Heard back from my dealer... My schedule has not changed... SO Porsche does not batch paint PTS cars. Oh well... I could dream.
I've pondered this question before.
It makes sense to total orders for a color and batch process the frames and panels, warehousing the frames and panels until the build time and delivering to the assembly line.
How they handle painting roll hoops and interior trim to match is another matter?
So even if your cars with the same PTS are not produced at the same time, it does not mean that Porsche does not batch process PTS.-Richard
I've pondered this question before.
It makes sense to total orders for a color and batch process the frames and panels, warehousing the frames and panels until the build time and delivering to the assembly line.
How they handle painting roll hoops and interior trim to match is another matter?
So even if your cars with the same PTS are not produced at the same time, it does not mean that Porsche does not batch process PTS.-Richard
I didn't think Porsche did this (warehousing). Can anyone confirm? I thought Porsche did everything on-demand to prevent warehousing? I could be wrong.
I've pondered this question before. It makes sense to total orders for
a color and batch process the frames and panels, warehousing the
frames and panels until the build time and delivering to the assembly
line. How they handle painting roll hoops and interior trim to match
is another matter? So even if your cars with the same PTS are not
produced at the same time, it does not mean that Porsche does not
batch process PTS.-Richard
Originally Posted by navanoD
I didn't think Porsche did this
(warehousing). Can anyone confirm? I thought Porsche did
everything on-demand to prevent warehousing? I could be
wrong.
Porsche itself doesn't do any long-term warehousing of production parts
at its facilities. It is all 'just in time' and 'just in sequence'. These assembly
components arrive from various sources, both internal to PAG (e.g. painted
chassis, motors) and external to PAG (e.g. wheels, sub-assemblies, etc).
The paint for each PTS customer vehicle's is apparently ordered 3 months
in advance and containers of that paint are sent to each source that needs
to paint a particular part for that individual custom order.
To avoid any quality control issue down the line, I would doubt that these
sources (external or internal) paint its parts in batches. This would be to
avoid, for example, doing one particular set of of air vents in 'Riviera Blue'
that perhaps will not exactly match a later 'Riviera Blue' custom order,
whose other panels & parts were painted 'Riviera Blue' with a different
'batch' of 'Riviera Blue' paint sent to the sources by the third party paint
suppliers of PAG.
I believe the original question regarding 'batch' painting of PTS cars is
in response to the perception that PAG seems to be postponing the
building of PTS orders of certain models (e.g. 991 gt3 RS) until very
late in the production cycle, regardless of when these PTS orders were
originally approved. And this has generated curiosity as to why Porsche
would do that and if the reason is that they are doing all PTS cars in
'batches'. And the answer to that question is...we don't know.
I have requested Porsche to allow me to interview the folks at their
organization in Germany responsible for PTS (which are not the
'Porsche Exclusive' folks I normally meet with in Zuffenhausen) to get
a better understanding as to how PTS is perceived by them, how they
plan for it and how it's all done. I am waiting to see if they are willing
to discuss the topic. I think it would be very beneficial for their customers
(and Porsche dealers who follow PTS threads here on Rennlist for its
informative content) to know, so that everyone understands how it
works, its limitations and how to best take advantage of it once these
'PTS windows' are opened. I'll keep you all posted on their response
to that request.
11-11-2015, 11:06 AM
