Anyone Try the New Michelin Pilot Super Sport Tire
09-29-2011, 11:42 PM
#16
Three Wheelin'
Steve: I hereby designate you as our beta test for R compound tires on the Cayman R. Let us know how it works out. Like you, I put competition tires our old Toyota MR2's in the early 90's and thought it was terrific. I am hoping you will lead the way here and keep us posted on the results.
As an aside, I don't think PAG is limiting the oiling capabilities of the 987's vs the .2 997's per se. I just don't think they are optimal in either. But this is only IN RELATIONSHIP to what they have done with the Mezger engine in their gt3's. I am no expert, but from what I hear from experienced gt3 & Cayman competition guys like Rad (NJ-GT), the weakness of the 987 platform transcends the DFI engine & any remaining oil starvation issues (if in fact they still exist at all). It involves the parts used in the suspension, their strength, their architecture, their lack of adjustment points, etc. So Porsche has not yet shown a willingness to make their mid-engine platform truly competitive in relationship with what they have been willing to do with their gt3 platform. And they are upfront about it. If you want to compete in a Porsche, they will tell you that their gt cars are the way to go and that is what they will support via their Motorsport division.
Regardless, I think that the Spyder and Cayman R are exceptional vehicles that give us a higher grins per dollar invested than any other model in the Porsche range today - including a gt3 RS! But they are handicapping it, on purpose, to preserve the supremacy of the gt cars, and the gt3/RS's in particular. For example, to make a Spyder more competitive at the track, we have seen guys like Savyboy spent upwards to $30K/$35K in better brakes, suspension pieces, etc. I will never do that and neither will most of you. But that is what some of these folks do in order to have some of the performance advantages, reliability and longevity that comes mostly standard in the extremely well engineered & time-tested gt3's, RS's & Cup cars! And even those folks with the latter keep trying to improve them. Me, I am leaving my Spyder stock and learn to love it 'as is'. I will, however, consider a better tire in the future if the beta testing reveals a real improvement in performance within a safe (wet driving) margin...and if oil starvation issues don't crop up!
As an aside, I don't think PAG is limiting the oiling capabilities of the 987's vs the .2 997's per se. I just don't think they are optimal in either. But this is only IN RELATIONSHIP to what they have done with the Mezger engine in their gt3's. I am no expert, but from what I hear from experienced gt3 & Cayman competition guys like Rad (NJ-GT), the weakness of the 987 platform transcends the DFI engine & any remaining oil starvation issues (if in fact they still exist at all). It involves the parts used in the suspension, their strength, their architecture, their lack of adjustment points, etc. So Porsche has not yet shown a willingness to make their mid-engine platform truly competitive in relationship with what they have been willing to do with their gt3 platform. And they are upfront about it. If you want to compete in a Porsche, they will tell you that their gt cars are the way to go and that is what they will support via their Motorsport division.
Regardless, I think that the Spyder and Cayman R are exceptional vehicles that give us a higher grins per dollar invested than any other model in the Porsche range today - including a gt3 RS! But they are handicapping it, on purpose, to preserve the supremacy of the gt cars, and the gt3/RS's in particular. For example, to make a Spyder more competitive at the track, we have seen guys like Savyboy spent upwards to $30K/$35K in better brakes, suspension pieces, etc. I will never do that and neither will most of you. But that is what some of these folks do in order to have some of the performance advantages, reliability and longevity that comes mostly standard in the extremely well engineered & time-tested gt3's, RS's & Cup cars! And even those folks with the latter keep trying to improve them. Me, I am leaving my Spyder stock and learn to love it 'as is'. I will, however, consider a better tire in the future if the beta testing reveals a real improvement in performance within a safe (wet driving) margin...and if oil starvation issues don't crop up!
No, it's not the Mezger with it's many years of development and racing pedigree, but not much stands that comparison.
When the DI engines were 'new' to the 911, Porsche put out a video showing how them run on a test rig that was supposed to replicate the G-loading of the Nurburgring on the oil system.
Savy also ran R-compounds, (Pirelli Trofeos, I believe) on his Spyder.
And without taking anything away from the GT-cars or the Mezger engine, Savy did the same things to his GT3RS.
I have to get the alignment checked first, then get the 'right' tire pressures, then I'll try the Rs... and I will let you know.
And I've posted my question about Interseries car on the Cayman Register. I'll post the answer when/if I get one.
09-29-2011, 11:43 PM
#17
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09-30-2011, 12:13 AM
#18
I'm on my 3rd set of MPSS on my Cayman (18 inch wheels)
I've run them very hard on both track and autocross
wore out the left front on the first two sets because can't get enough camber out of a stock suspension
running in high temps on an abrasive track really reduced tread life
need to work on suspension and tire pressures to get better results
tires are great, very good grip
others have said comparable to RE-11
pricing can't be beat so I'd say they are the best value out there
currently set of 4 for 18 inch wheels is only $936, less than I paid for my last set $958 from Tire Rack (compared to $1172 for RE-11s)
have to try the 19s on my Spyder, definitely sold on Super Sports
and why would you want to pay $400 more for PS2s
I've run them very hard on both track and autocross
wore out the left front on the first two sets because can't get enough camber out of a stock suspension
running in high temps on an abrasive track really reduced tread life
need to work on suspension and tire pressures to get better results
tires are great, very good grip
others have said comparable to RE-11
pricing can't be beat so I'd say they are the best value out there
currently set of 4 for 18 inch wheels is only $936, less than I paid for my last set $958 from Tire Rack (compared to $1172 for RE-11s)
have to try the 19s on my Spyder, definitely sold on Super Sports
and why would you want to pay $400 more for PS2s
09-30-2011, 12:22 AM
#19
Z356,
I am not surprised since the owner's manual advises not to use slicks for that very reason, oil starvation.
However, I thought the Spyder had a dry sump system. Is that not true, or is it not a true dry sump, like the cayenne?
I am not surprised since the owner's manual advises not to use slicks for that very reason, oil starvation.
However, I thought the Spyder had a dry sump system. Is that not true, or is it not a true dry sump, like the cayenne?
09-30-2011, 12:59 AM
#20
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...p_test-feature
I will let those more familiar with the Mezger explain the benefits of that other 'dry sump' system in relation to the one used in our engines. However, it does appear that the oil issues with the Boxster/Cayman so prevalent before the DFI engines appeared in 2009 are perhaps a thing of the past. So progress is being made. However, the manual's warning of not using 'slicks' on our Spyders bring home the point I was trying to make before, regardless the improved multi-pump system now in use. z356
09-30-2011, 02:07 PM
#21
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I replaced the Bridgestone RE050A that came on my Spyder after 8,400 miles with the Super Sports. My Spyder sees quite a bit of track time and after three track days and 1,600 miles on the Super Sports I can say that they are better in every way. I'm not sure about wet performance yet.
From previous posts Savyboy and The Kane both use R comp tires on their Spyders and have not reported any problems. Obviously a small sample size and unscientific but I would not hesitate using R comps on my Spyder. For what it's worth the dealer service department that I use indicated that they would have no problems filing a warranty claim on a vehicle with R comps but they would have a problem with a vehicle on full slicks like the Hoosiers.
From previous posts Savyboy and The Kane both use R comp tires on their Spyders and have not reported any problems. Obviously a small sample size and unscientific but I would not hesitate using R comps on my Spyder. For what it's worth the dealer service department that I use indicated that they would have no problems filing a warranty claim on a vehicle with R comps but they would have a problem with a vehicle on full slicks like the Hoosiers.
09-30-2011, 02:34 PM
#22
Three Wheelin'
Cayman Interseries cars' oiling systems are unmodified (they get a transmission oil cooler and the 3rd radiator). I was told the spec tires are Hoosier R6s. Sounds like the new oiling system is more than enough for occasional to serious track play.
Dealers always gave me more 'flak' about not using an N-rated tire than running R-compounds.
Dealers always gave me more 'flak' about not using an N-rated tire than running R-compounds.
09-30-2011, 06:17 PM
#23
I've run the PSS and Yoko AD08s on my M3 on the track/street. The PSS are better for street and occasional track days (smoother and quieter) but aren't quit as good nor last as long as the AD08s on the track. Neither compare to Rcomps on the track but make good wet tires.
The PSS is head and shoulders better than the PS2s.
The PSS is head and shoulders better than the PS2s.
I replaced the Bridgestone RE050A that came on my Spyder after 8,400 miles with the Super Sports. My Spyder sees quite a bit of track time and after three track days and 1,600 miles on the Super Sports I can say that they are better in every way. I'm not sure about wet performance yet.
From previous posts Savyboy and The Kane both use R comp tires on their Spyders and have not reported any problems. Obviously a small sample size and unscientific but I would not hesitate using R comps on my Spyder. For what it's worth the dealer service department that I use indicated that they would have no problems filing a warranty claim on a vehicle with R comps but they would have a problem with a vehicle on full slicks like the Hoosiers.
From previous posts Savyboy and The Kane both use R comp tires on their Spyders and have not reported any problems. Obviously a small sample size and unscientific but I would not hesitate using R comps on my Spyder. For what it's worth the dealer service department that I use indicated that they would have no problems filing a warranty claim on a vehicle with R comps but they would have a problem with a vehicle on full slicks like the Hoosiers.
10-01-2011, 10:00 AM
#24
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I've run the PSS and Yoko AD08s on my M3 on the track/street. The PSS are better for street and occasional track days (smoother and quieter) but aren't quit as good nor last as long as the AD08s on the track. Neither compare to Rcomps on the track but make good wet tires.
The PSS is head and shoulders better than the PS2s.
The PSS is head and shoulders better than the PS2s.
