Allan Gibbs

Here's the situation. I've had a '99 Boxster and a 2005 Lotus Elise so I'm VERY familiar with both brands. My Audi TT lease ends in May 2011 and my original plan was to wait until the 981 is available but....

1. I found several Lotus Evora demo cars with 2,600 miles that the dealer will sell for $60,000. Original sticker woudl have been $85,000. I think I may be able to get the car out the door for $60,000 (essentially around $55,000).

my other option is:

2. I found a 2009 Boxster S with all the options I want (Ruby Red, Sport Plus, PDK, etc.) except it doesn't Xenon lights. This is a "top hat" car used by a Lotus Exec and has 3,500 miles. Dealer is listing it for $50,000. I suppose I could also get it for $50,000 out the door.

my third option is:

3. Stay the course. I have 5 more months on my Audi TT lease and if I end the lease now, I'll stil have to cover the remaining lease payment - which I would really negotiating as part of the addditional $$$ off the Evora or Boxster S.

So, I'm a bit torn. The wise thing to do is just wait. However, the 981 won't be here until at least the fall of 2011. Not to mention, the itch to get a new car is very strong.

Any suggestions?

Allan Gibbs

Here are my random thoughts on the Evora. I'll have a chance to test drive one tomorrow.

1. Lacks the straight line power and that's my bestest issue. The Boxster S I'm looking at (with PDK) will definitely be faster in straight line). 276hp and 3040 pounds really put this in the Boxster (non-S) class. I'm sure it handles well but the Boxster S is no cargo van either.

2. Fit and finish. I've heard the fit and finish of the Evora aren't really up to Porsche standards. I kind of agree. I could forgive that on the Elise because of it's mission but not some much like the Evora. So, little things like the clock only read 24 hour time irritates me. It's like Lotus engineers only focus on handling and everything else is just an afterthought.

3. Exterior. I think it's beautiful -although it does have some awkward angles. And, honestly, I think this is the best draw to the Evora. It's just beautiful and gets my heart pumping faster looking at it. Is it worth the adequate power and mediocre fit and finish? That's my problem.

4. The rear seat. Actually, this is useful because my 3 year old will fit perfectly back there. I sold my Elise and got the Audi TT because I thought I needed a 4 seater (and the TT was the only 4 seater I kind of liked). Truth is, I don't really need it. When the family goes some where we use the family car. So, I don't need to have a four seater but I'd feel less guilty. The ironic part is my wife can drive stick so she will never be able to use the Evora -even in emergencies.

5. Resale Value. I was thinking of guess getting the Evora and keep it for a year or two and then trade it in when the 981 are more plentiful and better deals are to be had. Lotus just retroactively dropped the MSRP of the Evora by $8,000. So, the $85,000 car are now $78,000. So, depreciation is an issue.

6. Demo car. This is a demo car and it’s been used. That’s an issue. The Boxster S on the other hand is a executives car…..but that doesn’t mean it hasn’t been abused either.

Do you think $55,000 for a $78,000 demo car is a good price?

Allan Gibbs

Here are my thoughts on the Boxster S:

1. In retrospect, my 1999 Boxster was the best car I ever had -although I hated it at the time due to lack of power. The Boxster's handling is more exploitable than the Elise because the Elise needed good pavement and warm tires for it to handle decently. The Boxster operated at lower levels but in more variety of conditions. So, I have a soft spot for the Boxster.

2. I want a convertible because we live in the area around the Pasadena Rose Bowl. Lots of nice residential canyons and trees. I'd love to be able to take my son around with the top down and share the experience with him. Part of that would be lost with the Evora.

3. While it's a two seater, my family can't all ride together (no, I don't really like the 911 cab), however, since this is a PDK, my wife can use it as she needs to.

4. The only real down side to this Boxster S (asides from the lack of Xenon which I really want because our area is very dark at night), is the new Boxster S that will be available in about 9- 10 more months.

5. The MSPR of the Boxster was $75,000. I would get it for about $50,000. I'm just not sure if the resale value would be better than the Evora so that next year, I could go into a 2012 Boxster S.

So, right now, I'm kind of leaning towards the 2009 Boxster S or waiting until late 2011 for the 981. Problem is, the Evora evokes an emotional response that may over-ride logic.....and I think that's it's main selling point.


Let me ask you this. Considering this car is fully loaded (except Xenon) and MSPR at $75,000. Do you think $50,000 is a good price with 3,500 miles?

racer

You are having a great conversation with yourself.. i hate to interupt

imho, it comes down to: Convertible or Coupe? Both cars are great, imho. I like the Lotus due to its scarcity/rarity in my parts.

I think a more interesting question is why do you want/need to always have a "new car".

Allan Gibbs

Thanks. I've been having this conversation with myself since Sunday night. I think you're right. It's a coupe vs. convertible decision.

As for always wanting a new cars, I'd schedule an appointment with a shrink but that would mean less funds for the new cars.

batty

Why not get a Spyder for the same price as the Evora. Should hold its value better than both your options, plus more fun to boot!

s2ktaxi

Don't let the lack of Xenon's be an issue because it's a relatively easy $200-300 aftermarket upgrade - even though they don't swivel. Just going by listening in on your conversation with yourself, it sounds like you'd rather have the Boxster. The price and mileage for the Boxster sounds like a good deal if you can get it for $50k out the door. Also, if you are thinking of ending your TT lease early because you don't need the 4 seats and don't see much in having a coupe, why even consider the Evora?

Personally, I don't think the Evora will hold it's value - it's not special enough.

Allan Gibbs

Thanks for the response.

As for the Spyder, I was considering it a few months ago but decided to go with the Boxster because of the ability to open and close the top on the go. Actually, the ONLY reason I'm considering the Evora is the price I can get it for -and even then the 276hp is a problem for me.

Dino944

I looked at Lotus cars a while ago. I found that the Elise is a blast to drive, its a very pure no non-sense sports car, but was too raw for daily driving. For me the Elise or Exige are the only Lotus cars currently built that I'd consider.

I saw the Evora in person and thought its a handsome car. But on closer inspection, it was lacking in build quality compared to Porsches. Also, a Cayman S or Boxster S weigh about the same as an Evora and the Cayman S and Boxster S both have more HP and torque. While the Evora is relatively rare compared to a Porsche, at least where I live, it also means that the Lotus dealers are further away and there are fewer of them. In fact, in my area most Lotus dealers fold in under 5 years. There is only one Lotus dealer in my region thats been around for more than 10 years and he is over an hour and half away.

Also, as much as I liked the Lotus and its relative rarity, I still have trouble with the idea its using a Toyota engine. Yes, that means the engine should be pretty reliable and maybe some parts are relatively inexpensive, but I do have some trouble with the idea its got the same engine that you will find in Grandma's Camry.

As for resale, only time will tell. However, Lotus cars appeal to a smaller market that Porsches. Hence, I think the number of people that will be interested in buying a Lotus when you want to sell will be smaller number than if you were selling a Porsche.

Just my 2 cents. If I had more time, space and money, maybe I'd have a Lotus too, but it would be an Elise/Exige.

Best regards,
Dino

Allan Gibbs

Here are some pictures. I'll post a review later. I have eaten or drink anything since 8 a.m. this morning (it's now 4 p.m.)

Marine Blue

Looking forward to getting your impressions.....

Allan Gibbs

Here are some random thought:

1. The Evora is very much like the Elise/Exige. It handles very similar and brakes very similar. If you like the Elise/Exige, then most likely you'll like the Evora.

2. The Evora's handling feels.....well, different. With the Boxster, 911, or even my Audi TT (MKII), it feels like a regular car. Sure the suspension, steering wheel feedback, and weight of the steering wheel are different on all three - but all three feel like you're driving a car. With the Elise, I always felt like I was driving a go cart and the Evora, despite being bigger, has that same feel. Some people will like it and some won't. I like the feel of the Boxster better.

3. The Evora driver seat area has very little space. And this is my biggest gripe on the Evora. I can understand why there's no dead pedal. There just isn't room for it. So, it has a fighter plane for F1 type of feel. The Boxster feels like a regular car. You don't have to climb into it (which you still do with the Evora) and you have room to move. Some people will like the figther cockpit and some won't. I think I would like it if I didn't have to live with it as a every day.

4. They say the Evora is a car you can drive every day whereas the Elise is a narrow focused track toy. I'm not sure if the Evora is a car you can drive every day. Well, you can but I'm not sure if you'd want to. It's more of a back road or freeway type of car. Because...

5. The shifter's sloppy. The reviews are right. It doesn't like to be rushed. However, I haven't driven a stick shift since I sold my Lotus in June 2007.

6. It's a low car. It's not as low as the Elise but you do feel low to the ground. With the Elise, I was looking at Camry's door handles. With the Evora, I look at Camry driver's chins.

7. Handles pretty well on the freeway. Again, you have the sensation that you're still sitting lower to the ground but it's very stable and planted -where as the Elise/Exige tended to bounce on rough freeway patches.

8. I think the steering on the Evora feel a little disconnected or slower than the Boxster.

9. Despite the weight, the Evora has got the low end torque. The Boxster S may out power it, but I never feel that it was under power driving from 3,000 to 6,000 rpm. There's a bit of a power kick above 6,000 - like the Boxster S. In lower rpms, I think they're about the same. When they get into the higher rpms, the Boxster S has an advantage. Keep in mind this is just based on my limited street ride and all 987's I've riden were PDKs while the Evora's a six speed.

10. Nav system is a joke. I think I spent more time trying to figure it out than driving the Evora.

11. Rear seats would be useful for my 3 year old. I don't think you'd really want to put an adult back there unless you REALLY, REALLY had too.

12. Controls' lay out could be better. Buttons are blocked by your arms and you need to turn your head to move at them. Honestly, it didn't bother me much.

13. Fit & Finish wasn't bad. When you glance in it, it looks nice. But when you really start to look at the fit & finish, it's not too good and no where near Porsche standards.

14. Engine sound. Not bad. Sounds like a nice 6 cylinder but the Boxster's flat six sounds much better to me. I don't really like the sound of 4 or 6 cylinder cars - except for the flat sixes. I like the V8 or 12.

15. And here's the big thing. Despite all the flaws of the Evora and everything the Boxster does well, I'm strangely drawn to the Evora. The reason is the exterior styling. I think it's a beautiful car Not as beautiful as the 430 Ferrari in the same showroom but you see a lot of similarities. When you drive it, you feel...well, kind of like a rock star. I don't think I'd want to live with that again on a daily basis (because it's the same thing with the Elise). The Boxster is so well recognized that, while it's a beautiful car, you don't have people staring and gawking at you like you're on fire. The Boxster is a car I wouldn't mind or feel guilty using every day. The Evora is like wearing a tuxedo to work....every day.

So, which would I go for? I don't know...... the Boxster surpasses the Evora in terms of power, handling feel, fit & finish, and it's a convertible....but that sexy body keeps popping back in my mind. Also, I didn't get a chance to test drive the Rudy Red S pictured above. It was still being PDI. So, my S test drive was on a black 2011 PDK.

I have 4 more months and Newport European said they could get me future Evora's at that price so there's no rusch. Maybe I'll try to wait two more months until Geneva to see how the 981 will turn out. And that's my biggest reluctance on getting the Boxster S now. I got my '99 Boxster 1 month before the 2000 Boxster S came out. Yeah, I know the Boxster S was coming but I justified my impatience by saying, "really, how big a difference will 50hp make."

In closing, here's how I see the differences between Porsche and Lotus. Lotus is a company (at least where the Elise and Evora are concerned) run by engineers. They are given a specification and meet that specification (in a sort of tunnel minded kind of way). For example, the specs call for weight under 2000 pounds, then "this" will need to be the dimension and "this" is what we cannot have. In contrast, Porsche is a company run by businessmen first and then engineers. What are competition's offerings? How will this effect how are car is perceived? What's the proper price point for this product, etc. And, I think Lotus, with it's new CEO and executives from Porsche and Ferrari, will incorporate that into future products. But for now, I think the Boxster S is a better car over the Evora in all aspects except the exterior styling.

Dino944

Its always fun to read another persons impressions of cars you've considered. Overall, I think Lotus cars are fun to drive, and they feel very different than Porsches. Lotus still seems to be a car/brand that shows and feels its roots are from kit cars. From a distance the quality looks good, maybe good enough to do the job, but its far from the quality that you see in German cars. The more time I spent inside an Evora, the less I liked its interior.

I do think the Boxster is a good looking car, but certainly more common, and hence less of a head turner than a Lotus. Most people looking at a Lotus have to look at the badging to figure out what it is. A Porsche Boxster, Cayman, or 997 all look like they carry Porsche DNA.

I enjoyed driving test driving a Lotus Elise, and for something that would just be a Sunday driver it might work (provided I kept a chiropractor on a full time retainer to deal with my back after getting in and out). Getting in and out of a Ferrari is considerably easier than getting in and out of a Lotus. I personally have not sworn off the idea of getting a Lotus someday. I think they just need time to perfect the concept they have come up with (by adding quality to the mix).

As for looks if you want Ferrari attention at a cut rate price, go for the Lotus. There is certainly some fun to the rock star feeling you get from a Lotus. Just be aware it can become a pain if you have to deal with the attention on a daily basis. While the Porsche isn't going to turn heads quite as much as the Lotus, get a Boxster on some nice winding roads and you will see why Boxsters and Caymans have been considered the best sports cars available.

Best regards,
Dino

skl

You are comparing apples and oranges- had a '06 Elise sport for a couple years- bought it new on my birthday, sort of an impulse purchase but I had lusted over them ever since seeing one many years earlier when on a vacation in England. Told my kids if they ever imported them, I'd get one... of course they reminded me of that! They never miss anything!!
It was a blast to drive and reminded me of driving my 914, only newer with airbags and a goof-proof Toyota motor. Attracted more attention than my GT3- though I really didn't want that. In all honesty, it reminded me more of a kit car than a real car, though it was reliable while I had it. My wife wouldn't ride in it as she hated getting in and out of it- she'd even prefer the GT3 with the euro seats... will admit, getting out of it and into my son's Cayman S, it made the Cayman feel like it weighed 4 tons!!
The novelty wore off though and for the amount of time I actually drove it, it wasn't worth the expense anymore. Glad I had it and can say I did own a Lotus, but doubt I'd ever buy another one. I think that new Bahar guy running Lotus must be smoking some serious weed to think he can pull off the plans he has for Lotus, especially in this economy...

Allan Gibbs

That's pretty much the same with me - and the many who only had their Elise for about a year. After some time with the Elise, I didn't think the handling was all the hype made it to be - unless the conditions were ideal (warmed up tires and smooth surface).

I compared the Boxster S with the Evora because I never really considered the Cayman because I wanted a convertible roadster again. The only reason the Evora came into the picture was because of the MSPR drop and then the demo cars available at Newport Beach Lotus for $60K.

I think at this point, I may be patient for 3 more months and see what the Geneva show brings.