Scooby921

I'm thinking the same. Base model will have a version of the LT1. Up-model will have a flat-plane crank. We've all heard it in the various clips of the C8.R being tested. I've also heard it on my occasional trips to GM proving grounds. What they do beyond that I don't know.

I don't know if a manual C8 will be available. As much as I love the connected feeling and the enjoyment of a manual I'm starting to come to terms with the benefits of a DCT. When I drive the car to work it's a stop-and-go parking lot on the freeway. There isn't a lot of fun to be had in that.

CaymanSinAR

I hear ya on that, but I bought my PDK 911 six months ago. As nice as it is in traffic I find I miss a manual more overall than I appreciate the PDK when stuck in traffic.

But my traffic isn't bad at all on the whole.

MidEngineRules

I'm a big fan of FVD Brombacher products, especially their software. Why anyone would buy a COBB tune is beyond me. Would love to know how many blown motors COBB is responsible for. Anyway, I agree fully with your assessment. These days people are torque crazy. They are also numbers driven. None of that means a hill of beans when you're out enjoying your car. Sound does matter, especially when it comes to Porsches. It's a big part of the character. But not just sound, but engine response too. I bought my wife a 718 GTS Boxster and although she liked it, I hated it. I just decided to let her have our 1 year old Targa 4S and I replaced her GTS with a GT4 for me. Problem solved. Was so happy to get rid of that car. Discovered along the way that Porsche dealers absolutely cringe at the thought of having another 718 on the lot. They think it takes 6 months to move them. It's such a disaster for Porsche. It will go down in history as a Porsche mistake. If you don't own one, then do yourself a favor and never do.

If memory serves, the 981 3.4 twin intake was designed for larger throttle bodies. They tapered the intake to accommodate a smaller TB. It's a cheap way to limit power. Ducati did the same thing with the 748 after the 916 was introduced.

As for the Corvette discussion, the car has too much power to be fun on the street. if you can't put your foot into it for more than a few seconds, there's no point. If I still lived in Germany that would be different. But then again, I still have the MV Agusta I had while in Germany and it's much faster than any box stock Vette. I don't ride that much anymore truthfully as it's no fun in the States.

garfunkle

Plenum, TB and FVD tune transformed my prehistoric boxster. Just like my 991.1 - Both with headers, plenum, tune, etc.... Before the boosted Porsches became the norm, everyone raved about the torque; even in a base 991.1 in comparison to an M4! Also, the torque argument is a tired one and only matters for people that insist on short shifting. If you keep the car in the gear it is supposed to be in then the torque "deficit" is neutralized.

Also - I played with an E63 recently, 2015ish in my 987.... He definitely pulled from me but nowhere near as much as I thought he would. And not even close to like a friend's tuned M5 pulls from my highly modded 991.1.

Scooby921

The number is significantly smaller than you want to infer. Their off-the-shelf engine tunes have always been on the conservative side and intentionally run a bit rich for safety. Though this assumes the owner of the car knows what they are doing and properly matches their mods and chosen off-the-shelf engine map. Mis-matching and ended up with a blown motor is an operator error and not a Cobb Tuning problem.

I have and would buy Cobb because I know people who work there and trust them to do good work. But then I've been using Cobb products for far longer than they've been in the Porsche market.

CaymanSinAR

I've grown to appreciate my 991.2 and its torque, but you are right about putting your foot in it for more than a few seconds. It's triple digits in the blink of an eye.

manifold danger

This is actually a great recommendation. The 997s started to skyrocket in value about a year ago but they're coming back down to reality. You can score a really good one for less than $50k. That's an even better value proposition than any 981 or 718, if you can stomach the archaic interior (which was vastly improved in the 991/981).

We're on here a lot and I notice some folks' posting trends... you're really a fan of PCCB and X73 aren't you? I get the X73, but am genuinely curious- the carbon ceramics actually have more stopping power than the steel brakes? I understand the reduced fade, near-infinite life expectancy, lack of dust, etc.- but at least to my experience the stopping power is not improved just by the fact that the materials are different. Is there something else making them stop better that I'm missing? Although I will agree with you that the 981 steel brakes aren't perfect. They're a solid 7/10 in my book.

Co-sign. I made this mistake with my previous car, an M4. It was actually great on the track, but just made me realize how much of an idiot I was for moving away from a manual on the street. I'll never do it again.

These are really strong takes.

First of all, how are you arriving to this conclusion with Cobb; i.e., on what data are you basing this on? If anything, it seems to me that this may be a matter of the old "Windows vs Mac" debate about how prone Windows is/was to malware. If 98% of the population uses a given platform, that's clearly what the bad guys are going to focus on; so wouldn't there be a higher likelihood that more "blown motors" are due to the popularity of Cobb (and the tendency for people to go off the reservation with tunes, as someone already mentioned)? I also notice you tend to lean hard in the direction of anything made in Germany. I get that you lived there, but don't you think you're just a bit biased?

As for the disaster of the 718, I think that I would unfortunately have to at least partially agree with you, because I do think that the sales data is there at this point, on top of the swirling rumors that Porsche is already reacting by "bringing back" the 6 cylinder. But the other thing I'd bring up is that it seems to only be the "purists" who are freaking out about the 718. Granted, that makes up a large portion of their target demographic so it may well be a disaster... but there's still a lot to like about the 718, and I think it's unfair and actually bad advice to suggest that people should never own one. I understand you thought it was boring, but many, many people do not agree. Not sure why you're so adamant on enforcing your opinion for this particular topic.

I seem to have to reference this all the time but I think it's important- all this is coming from a current 981 owner. I love my car immensely, but can totally get behind the appeal of the 718. It's just the idea of "4 cylinder bad", and that its predecessor just sounded so amazing by comparison is leading to its perceived failure; not because it's actually a bad car.

Tis the cycle of perpetuity anytime the 718 vs 981 debate is brought up...

Gdub

I remember in 1999 when porsche changed from air /oil cooled to water cooled engines i was realy bummed out having owned many air cooled but came around as time went on because they had to convert to sell cars but the change from six cylinder to four cylinder i think was a major mistake and agree with others who seem to think the six will be back in a new model Boxster. I drive a 1998 993S and am considering a 2015 or 2016 Spyder or GTS . I feel the same way as the member selling his NSX but i wouldn't consider a 718 boxster first i think there value will decrease rapidly and second exhaust note is terrible.

DFW01TT

I'd love to understand where your data comes from that allows you to level an accusation like that.

MidEngineRules

Germans have a completely different approach to most everything. They are far more responsible in their decision making, and TUV standards are much higher than here. The fact that FVD (German company) uses the same software engineers as Porsche should be reason enough to go that direction. I just wouldn't trust any other with something so expensive as your own car to any company that doesn't have the experience FVD and the same dedication to motor safety. It's that simple. Car manufacturing certainly isn't perfect. Porsche as all others have had their share of blunders. I was just reading a very long thread yesterday on the 997 board about cylinder scoring, conclusively due to Porsche not using an oil engineered specifically for DFI engines and that annual oil changes aren't enough to combat oil dilution which greatly contributes. I contacted L&N engineering to ask which oil they recommend for this issue since they seem to be among the forefront of combating the issue. I'll wait to hear from them before having the oil changed in my 991.2 Targa 4S, which is due, and my wife wants to keep this car for a long time. My point with this is Porsche only cares about the life of your car under warranty. I need my car's motors to last well beyond that. So I care about motor longevity and aren't looking to take risks with it. I don't see FVD as a risk. I see all others as a great risk, especially those trying to eek much higher power out of a motor not designed for it.

As for the 718, I didn't think I'd ever like it since I'm a fan of the flat 6 as most are here. But new = 718 and my wife seemed to want a new toy so after having one for a month I really found that while it certainly has power and it's worthy of the brand, it's truly boring to drive predominantly due to the power delivery. I'm not one to drive in top gear at 40 mph and expect the motor to rocket me down the highway if I push the pedal down. The 718 has the thrust to push you down the road but the throttle response is more disappointing than the sound and all those artificial pops and burbles become quite annoying. I could care less if a 718 is quicker around Nurburgring as Porsche sand bags times anyway as they know every new model will have to outperform the old. Ultimately if the motor isn't enjoyable to operate then that's an issue. Not to mention I found when attempting to move it on that its highly frowned upon by dealers who truly don't want them as they see them as extremely hard to resell. 718 owners will be truly shocked at what Porsche dealers will give them on trades in the future. I think this is the leading argument not to buy one, especially when there are many great older models to be had for far less money. Boxsters and Caymans are approaching 6 figures well optioned. That's really ridiculous. I can spend under $40k and get the same exact driving experience with a nice 987. Porsche is pricing themselves out of sales competition, which is a big reason their models in segment are doing terribly. BL is a 718 is much prettier to look at than drive.

Scooby921

TUV does the certifying. They are the evaluation company. They don't write the standards. In fact, TUV is often certifying to a global ISO standard, the same as an American, Chinese, or Japanese company might seek. And it means absolutely nothing unless you know which standard or standards they are certified for. They could have wonderful environmental policies and claim ISO / TUV certification and have zero impact on the quality of the product they are developing. As far as software is concerned you actually want to see a CMMI or AutomotiveSPICE certification of level 3 or higher. Those are certifications geared specifically toward process and quality control of software development.

Do you have a source for the claim that FVD uses the same software engineers as Porsche? OEM's seldom share information outside their supply base which has signed legal documents to prevent further spread and sharing of proprietary information. If FVD actually has access to Porsche resources that's quite significant. That's along the lines of Mountune and Ford. Mountune's aftermarket tunes actually carry Ford approval and a warranty.

SoCal-NSX

haha.....this is classic

you need to see the documentary on Netflix called "Dirty Money" about how corrupt VW was with the whole "clean diesel" scam they were running..... it will make your head spin.


https://cleantechnica.com/2018/03/09...e-worse-think/

manifold danger

Agreed. That would be a compelling reason to choose FVD over Cobb... but otherwise I think it's unfair to assign fault to Cobb for an abundance of engine failures.

saabin

^ I had a FVD OTS tune on my turbo, seemed OK until I started looking at the logs. Also had an issue with their "tune delivery" module that was the way the tune got loaded on the ECU via the OBD2 port.. Anyway, when I tried to remove the tune their "delivery" vendor who wrote the software had issues (Italian company) that required fair effort on my part to get straightened out. My car was unable to start while I went thru this "exercise", and cost me some $ in phone calls to Italy. Saying FVD as "no risk" and others as "great risk" is your opinion but not one I share based on personal experiences.

MidEngineRules

I thought I presented an inquiry versus accusation?? I certainly would find it interesting to know of failures associated with aftermarket tuning as I'm sure the list is long. I do realize much irresponsibility resides with the owners who want to turn their car into something it wasn't designed to be. It's more or less an irresponsible industry that so unforgivingly introduces operating parameters for which you cannot guarantee the same reliability as OEM and with complete disregard to factory warranty issues. FVD has yet to introduce any software for the 991.2 which I find responsibly interesting. Nonetheless modifications of any type are risky, particularly functional modifications for the sake of aesthetics like lowering your car to the point of suspension inadequacy. I'm not a fan of modifying outside factory parts. I have a 2007 MV Agusta F4 1000 R I bought while I still lived in Germany. It's modified with MV consumer factory race exhaust bits and ecu and in 12 years of ownership it runs as reliably as it did box stock. I've been just under 200 mph on that bike on stretches of the autobahns with never an issue. I also have a Ford RS in which I wish you could get the factory Montune software for here in the US as the tuning can certainly be better. Sorry to mention Cobb specifically. Market share led to that. But I'll take the most reliability I can get first and foremost. The MV is for sale btw. It's so fast it makes modifying cars a ridiculous proposition since no sub-hypercar will ever feel fast in comparison.

Addendum. L&N Engineering recommends Driven DI40 oil for DFI motors and changing every 6 months. I think we're going to see a lot more cylinder scoring issues with DFI motors in the future, at least for those with annual change intervals and in colder climates. I plan to ask my Porsche dealer if they'll allow me to substitute the oil during the annual service. German dealers let you do it. I supplied my own oil every time.

That is all...