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... or live in Japan and drive the Wangan and the Aqualine?
Outright speed is just that, and not much fun in hanging on for dear life, unless your name is Breedlove or Campbell.
We enjoy corners and views and lunch and partners (who rarely appreciated being made to wet their pants).
And yes, we've driven autobahn too.
Further information on what we do with our Cayman S here.
Danke!
It's an old chestnut, why do you need a fast car if you can't drive over the speed limit? I'm pretty sure that anyone can take pretty much any modern car - even a little tiny 1.0 Toyota Aygo - over the speed limit, but that's missing the point, I want a fast car, not because I want to speed, but because I want to drive quickly. Mostly that's off the motorway/highway/autobahn, and on the country roads, or around a track. I want to accelerate and brake, steer and turn, accelerate again, and explore the limits of the car and my ability.
Everyone here knows that you don't need to go 155 mph+ to notice the difference in power between a Honda Civic and a Corvette, or even a base 981 and an S. You'll notice driving to the corner store, or pulling out of the parking lot. It's all part of the experience, and anyone who would come to this board regularly I'd have to assume understands. OP didn't pose a provocative question, but it does border on rhetorical.
I still remember in the late 90s/early 00s, strapping intake/header/exhaust on my 1990 240SX with a 2.4L truck motor for the very noticeable gain of maybe 15-20 horsepower and a dramatically different powerband. I didn't do that to be able to push the car deeper into the triple digits on public roads; to me it was all about the "butt dyno", and how each little incremental improvement made a difference in acceleration that I felt from stoplight to stoplight. For what it's worth I tried to make it out to the semi-local drag strip as often as I could, but that maybe happened 2-3 times a year (which is more than I make it to the track now though). So for me, the track was secondary, and while it was definitely tons of fun it was actually probably more of a tool to provide tangible metrics on all the tinkering I was doing.
Anyway, I actually agree with the OP that there's so much more to it than top speed, but generally if a car has a high top speed all the other good stuff comes with it. What does get on my nerves is that a car's top speed is still listed in the official stats almost everywhere you look. What's even more annoying is that people care. I don't know what my car's top speed is, because I'll never get anywhere near it; even on a track.
Interestingly enough though, the statistic that is most relevant nowadays is 0-60, and to a lesser degree standing 1/4 mile. 0-60 is actually something that could be accomplished legally on public roads, and gives a solid metric for comparison in acceleration. 1/4 mile just extrapolates that out a bit. Neither of those metrics can relate "the Porsche experience" though, which at the end of the day is what this thread seems to be all about. And yes, the base 981 with the 2.7 is perfectly capable of delivering that in spades...
But it's still tough to argue that the S isn't better.
I consider power to be a benefit for defensive driving. Especially in Atlanta traffic, there are many times when you need to quickly speed up to merge or are forced to shoot a gap to avoid an accident. Thanks to 250+whp, I've been able to drive out of many accidents over the years.
Also for passing. In my area, there are many 2 lane roads where you'll be stuck behind a tractor trailer doing 20mph under the speed limit. Passing zones are short, so you want to get around them quickly. In my F150 and even my Slobaru, passing long trucks is almost impossible.
Admittedly, there is a point of too much power. In my opinion, 350whp is about the max I would want for a daily. With the right tires, you can floor it and go. Anymore and you start to run the risk of breaking loose too easily, especially in inclement weather.
Despite speed limits, the average highway speed is pretty fast here. I don't condone speeding, but I always move with the flow of traffic. I was driving in the middle lane with traffic's pace doing +20mph and the left lane was consistently passing at higher speeds. I felt a lot more comfortable cruising in my Porsche knowing that it can handle a quick turn if necessary, than the passing Privia and old F150 were probably feeling.
Also remember that the destination of the speed limit isn't everything, it's the journey that gets you there. There's a section of mountain roads in my area with a 55mph speed limit. Even with racing tires, I need to brake to 40mph for some of these turns. Possibly one of my favorite roads because you can drive at the limits of the suspension and tires without breaking the speed limit.
Then there's bragging rights. People like to talk about how much horse power they have. I don't. I fully admit that my 987S is slow by modern standard. My Volvo C30 and V50 have more horsepower and 1.5x the torque. Do Americans drive cars that are significantly faster than necessary? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean they're not fun to own.
250 to 300 naturally aspirated bhp per tonne with the car as light as possible is the recipe for a fun car for a fun road car to me.
For me there are three disctinctly different uses of a car:
A. Work car: Comfort, speed, tech, presence. I have no idea what BHP/Tonne is 'best' here but have a hunch that torque and 60 to 100 acceleration are most important. Around 250 horses in my previous 3 series was plenty for me in this category.
B. Family car: Easily cleaned, easy to maneuver, relatively frugal, good amount of space and loading capacity. BHP/Tonne doesn't matter.
C. Fun car: Lithe, powerful, top notch handling, some level of beauty. See above BHP/Tonne recipe. Will not complain about more but my drivibg skill definitely requires nannies if it gets higher.
Originally Posted by MyNameIdeasWereT
I consider power to be a benefit for defensive driving. Especially in Atlanta traffic, there are many times when you need to quickly speed up to merge or are forced to shoot a gap to avoid an accident. Thanks to 250+whp, I've been able to drive out of many accidents over the years.
Also for passing. In my area, there are many 2 lane roads where you'll be stuck behind a tractor trailer doing 20mph under the speed limit. Passing zones are short, so you want to get around them quickly. In my F150 and even my Slobaru, passing long trucks is almost impossible.
I "only" have a base Boxster. Where I live in the Sierra Nevada range, it's not about straight line hp, it's about handling with all the twists and turns of the mountain roads, There is more than enough hp in my car for this to fully appreciate it.
The are two debates going on here. The first seems to be centered around the point on having a high hp fast car in a country where you can't drive fast legally. A lot of people correctly point out that performance cars can be fun at any speed, and that bragging rights is a factor for a lot of people (if we're being honest).
The second debate seems to be the oft discussed "Base" vs "S or Turbo" Porsche specific topic. ALL Porsche sports cars are performance oriented vehicles. I've driven a lot of them, and even the slower, lower HP base models are fun as heck on backroads and twisties. There's a clear gap between a 911 and a Prius. There's less of a practical difference on the road between a base Boxster and a 911.
I think everyone would do well to self-reflect from time to time and question why they do what they do (in all areas of life). I did this with my decades long love affair with cars and realized that when it comes to pure driving entertainment, a little base Boxster is all I need for the "miles of smiles" that i get from a spirited drive. And at the price point of a used base boxster, you get a ton of bang for the buck. BUT i also admit i do enjoy having a car that is fun, but that can be pulled up to the local cars and coffee and draw people in for pictures. That's a cool feeling too. I imagine that has a lot to do with my desire to have a GT3, because I know I'd rarely, if ever, track it. The self reflection convinced me that looking cool at a car show isnt worth 5x the price of my Boxster.
The self reflection convinced me that looking cool at a car show isnt worth 5x the price of my Boxster.
Not to add a third element to the conversation, but money doesn't buy fast lap times and it isn't the sole factor in turning heads.
In the right hands, a base Cayman can outrun a turbo 911 on a technical track. I refuse to instruct in some of the high horse power cars because often times, those guys have more money than sense or skill. It's scary riding shotgun in a car capable of 180+mph with a driver who can't even heel toe.
My Boxster always draws more attention than the GT2s and GT3s at shows. The top end cars might get more attention on the dealership lot, but a few modifications can make any car stand out (good or bad) from the crowd. As I said at my last PCA event, whether onlookers loved it or hated it, they were still taking pictures of it.
Not to add a third element to the conversation, but money doesn't buy fast lap times and it isn't the sole factor in turning heads.
In the right hands, a base Cayman can outrun a turbo 911 on a technical track. I refuse to instruct in some of the high horse power cars because often times, those guys have more money than sense or skill. It's scary riding shotgun in a car capable of 180+mph with a driver who can't even heel toe.
My Boxster always draws more attention than the GT2s and GT3s at shows. The top end cars might get more attention on the dealership lot, but a few modifications can make any car stand out (good or bad) from the crowd. As I said at my last PCA event, whether onlookers loved it or hated it, they were still taking pictures of it.
To aboves point, here's a photo I recently took either at caffein and octane or caffein and exotics, (can't quite remember but both had tons of cars far more expensive or exotic than boxsters).
To aboves point, here's a photo I recently took either at caffein and octane or caffein and exotics, (can't quite remember but both had tons of cars far more expensive or exotic than boxsters).
That was exotics. Thanks for sharing!
I'll be honest, that Evo II got more love from me than any other car there. I only took a picture of the Senna to prove that I saw it in person.
05-16-2019, 06:07 AM
