Adjustable control arms or camber plates
03-12-2019, 10:40 AM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Adjustable control arms or camber plates
Duplicate post from Racing & Drivers Ed Forum
I've got 14 track days on my 09 Boxster PDK w/Sport/Sport+. I'm really wearing the edges off of my PS4S plus want better turn-in and grip in the "S" (Summit Point Main). I will need to upgrade the stock suspension to get a negative camber track set up. My son says adjustable control arms are better than camber plates. I still need to drive the car to the events and open top driving between events. VIR is on my wish list and its 226 miles. How much negative camber can I put in and still drive on the street without adversely wearing the front tires? With adjustable control arms could I DIY between a track and street camber being "close enough"?
I've got 14 track days on my 09 Boxster PDK w/Sport/Sport+. I'm really wearing the edges off of my PS4S plus want better turn-in and grip in the "S" (Summit Point Main). I will need to upgrade the stock suspension to get a negative camber track set up. My son says adjustable control arms are better than camber plates. I still need to drive the car to the events and open top driving between events. VIR is on my wish list and its 226 miles. How much negative camber can I put in and still drive on the street without adversely wearing the front tires? With adjustable control arms could I DIY between a track and street camber being "close enough"?
03-12-2019, 10:49 AM
#2
I run -2.5 camber, using LCAs, on my 987.2 Cayman; it's my dd and track car. Tire wear is fine.
Search the marketplace here on Rennlist for a deal on a set.
Search the marketplace here on Rennlist for a deal on a set.
03-12-2019, 10:52 AM
#3
Rennlist Member
Your son is right. I run -2.7 to -3 front camber with zero toe and it's fine on the highway. I still wear the outsides first. VIR from me is 250 miles, Barber is around 300 I think.
03-12-2019, 10:54 AM
#4
Instructor
I agree with ALE. You need to push the front camber as far as it will go. To do that you need either Tarett LCAs or I think the GT3 arms will do it. Once you have that done, the car will finally turn in the way you want it to. I keep the same setup for street and track with my car, tire wear isn't an issue.
03-12-2019, 11:08 AM
#5
I believe you son is right, get the GT3 or Tarett Cup LCA's with a solid thrust puck and monoball bearings. You will be glad you did! Both have internal shims that will increase your car's track at the same time adding additional camber. The Cup LCA's will also tighten up turnin, threshold braking, trail braking and mid corner throttle response. I would either add lowering springs, like spider springs, R springs or swift springs.
If you can afford it, coilovers to add better wheel control, higher spring rates and better dampining depending on your selection. I use Ohlin R&T with DFV technology, and have absoutely no problems. They are great coupled with the Tarett Cup LCA's. You can order Ohlins either with 400f/458r lbs/in spring rates or 500f/600r lbs/in spring rates with custom valving from ARC/Flash. The added benefit of coilovers is you can go beyond competition alignment with a corner balance, This gives you the same imput on turn in both directions and helps with balanced weight transfer on braking.
Pushing out the LCA's 20mm will add track to help reduce weight transfer across the car and add -2.0 degrees of camber. The oem system will give additional amounts of negative camber. I drive my Cayman S daily with -2.7 F and -2.5 r without any issues. Tire wear on the inside shoulders is actually minimal compared to the rest of the tread. Even with -2.7 f camber, I still get slightly more shoulder wear than other parts of the tire tread. -3.0 is the track sweet spot, but a little more inner shoulder wear when used as a daily driver.
The Tarett Cup LCA's are so tight in their movement both forward and rear and side to side, that the toe in front can be toe out 5 minutes and 12 minutes of toe in in the rear. This toe out give immediate turnin, yet does not cause twitchiness at speed, great for tracks with tighter corners, slaloms and other quick maneuvers. The Red solid thrust puck also have castor adjustment which help control the turnin response or twitchness when lowering your car with Spider, R , H&R springs or coilovers.
If you can afford it, coilovers to add better wheel control, higher spring rates and better dampining depending on your selection. I use Ohlin R&T with DFV technology, and have absoutely no problems. They are great coupled with the Tarett Cup LCA's. You can order Ohlins either with 400f/458r lbs/in spring rates or 500f/600r lbs/in spring rates with custom valving from ARC/Flash. The added benefit of coilovers is you can go beyond competition alignment with a corner balance, This gives you the same imput on turn in both directions and helps with balanced weight transfer on braking.
Pushing out the LCA's 20mm will add track to help reduce weight transfer across the car and add -2.0 degrees of camber. The oem system will give additional amounts of negative camber. I drive my Cayman S daily with -2.7 F and -2.5 r without any issues. Tire wear on the inside shoulders is actually minimal compared to the rest of the tread. Even with -2.7 f camber, I still get slightly more shoulder wear than other parts of the tire tread. -3.0 is the track sweet spot, but a little more inner shoulder wear when used as a daily driver.
The Tarett Cup LCA's are so tight in their movement both forward and rear and side to side, that the toe in front can be toe out 5 minutes and 12 minutes of toe in in the rear. This toe out give immediate turnin, yet does not cause twitchiness at speed, great for tracks with tighter corners, slaloms and other quick maneuvers. The Red solid thrust puck also have castor adjustment which help control the turnin response or twitchness when lowering your car with Spider, R , H&R springs or coilovers.
Last edited by Apex1; 03-12-2019 at 11:26 AM.
03-13-2019, 10:37 AM
#6
Changing the camber between street and track means you're also altering your toe and upsetting the alignment. Unless you're changing your alignment specs based on the track you're running, find a setup that you like and leave it there.
A bit more negative camber than stock isn't a bad thing on the street. Yes, you're more likely to cone the tires (cone, not cup), but you're not necessarily wearing through your tires any faster.
Also consider that hot tires being thrown around a track will wear a lot more than what you get on the street driving to the track.
When checking tire wear, just measure from the inside of the tire rather than the outside.
I have camber plates on the front and adjustable arms on the rear. Mostly because it's easier to adjust plates on the front and easier to adjust arms on the rear. -2.5° all around with a slight toe-in in the rear.
A bit more negative camber than stock isn't a bad thing on the street. Yes, you're more likely to cone the tires (cone, not cup), but you're not necessarily wearing through your tires any faster.
Also consider that hot tires being thrown around a track will wear a lot more than what you get on the street driving to the track.
When checking tire wear, just measure from the inside of the tire rather than the outside.
I have camber plates on the front and adjustable arms on the rear. Mostly because it's easier to adjust plates on the front and easier to adjust arms on the rear. -2.5° all around with a slight toe-in in the rear.
03-13-2019, 11:38 AM
#7
Rennlist Member
Another thing I haven't seen mentioned is that TOE eats tires way worse than camber. Toe out in front, which is nice on track, will murder your tires with highways miles added. Negative camber and zero toe or slight toe in is NBD.
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03-13-2019, 09:48 PM
#8
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Changing the camber between street and track means you're also altering your toe and upsetting the alignment. Unless you're changing your alignment specs based on the track you're running, find a setup that you like and leave it there.
A bit more negative camber than stock isn't a bad thing on the street. Yes, you're more likely to cone the tires (cone, not cup), but you're not necessarily wearing through your tires any faster.
Also consider that hot tires being thrown around a track will wear a lot more than what you get on the street driving to the track.
When checking tire wear, just measure from the inside of the tire rather than the outside.
I have camber plates on the front and adjustable arms on the rear. Mostly because it's easier to adjust plates on the front and easier to adjust arms on the rear. -2.5° all around with a slight toe-in in the rear.
A bit more negative camber than stock isn't a bad thing on the street. Yes, you're more likely to cone the tires (cone, not cup), but you're not necessarily wearing through your tires any faster.
Also consider that hot tires being thrown around a track will wear a lot more than what you get on the street driving to the track.
When checking tire wear, just measure from the inside of the tire rather than the outside.
I have camber plates on the front and adjustable arms on the rear. Mostly because it's easier to adjust plates on the front and easier to adjust arms on the rear. -2.5° all around with a slight toe-in in the rear.
03-14-2019, 12:49 AM
#9
Kitc2246 if you go with a lot of camber in the front to protect your race tires outside shoulders, your camber may exceed -3.0 degrees, which at that point make necessary both of these camber inducers necessary. The camber plate also contain a monoball which is more rigid than the oem rubber top hat. The plate also is easier to make small changes than the internal shims in the lower control arms.
03-14-2019, 09:25 AM
#10
For a professional race team build, everything is adjustable to retain absolutely perfect handling and make necessary tweaks based on the course you are running.
For most enthusiast builds, simply making one component adjustable is enough to improve handling and maintain reasonable alignment specs.
On a side note, if you plan on mildly lowering your car, that will also give you more negative camber and simply using the stock camber adjustments can probably get you to your desired camber settings. While I would still encourage having an option for a wider range of camber adjustment, if you're on a budget, you may want to put your money towards lowering first (if you want to lower the car).