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Oil suggestion 90% track/10% street

 
Old 03-11-2019, 10:28 AM
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djm68
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Default Oil suggestion 90% track/10% street

Getting prepped for the upcoming track season and have a few questions about oil.

2012 Cayman R (PDK) with LN engineering spin-on oil filter adapter, using NAPA 1348 filters and LN engineering deep sump oil pan; catless headers will come later this year, but stock currently.

Usage scenario is approximately 90% track day, 10% street. I don't trailer (yet), so I do drive to the track, longest drive to a track is about 175 miles (one way).

I am considering:
Motul 300V Power 5W40 Racing Motor (silver 2L can) or
Motul 8100 X-CESS 5W40

I've previously used Motul 8100 X-CESS 5W40, then switched to Joe Gibbs XP9. My only objection with XP9 is the suggested drain interval for my usage is too short -- XP9 should not be used longer than 10 hours of run time, track or road. This makes XP9 infeasible for many of my track events as I drive to the event; 3 hours each way, plus the actual time on track will far exceed the 10 hour run interval.

Any input on either of these oil choices? And, for my use case, a suggested drain interval?
Is there any merit in mixing these two oils?
Would your oil suggestion differ if I had catless headers installed?

Thanks,
DJM
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:18 AM
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85Gold
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That is all.

Peter

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Old 03-11-2019, 12:14 PM
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Scooby921
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******* answer:
What did Porsche specify as the OE oil for your engine? I'd use that one. It's the one they used during development when they tested and certified durability of the engine and components. I'm pretty sure it's the one they had in mind when they decided your car could and should survive the occasional track day.

Somewhat informed answer from someone who works for an OE driveline component supplier and deals with oil and temps:
Monitor oil temp. If it stays below 120°C you aren't doing significant "damage" to it which would justify an increase in oil change frequency. If you do exceed this temp the "damage" is exponential for each 5°C and minute you are over this threshold. If you're over by 5-10°C then you probably want to change it after every two or three track days. If you are over by 20+°C then you want to change it after every event. This is a big reason not to opt for some outlandishly expensive oil. Maybe it changes things by a degree or two on when it starts to break down, but in the end they all come from the same base material and there is only so much you can do to alter chemical and mechanical properties.
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Old 03-11-2019, 12:57 PM
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Marine Blue
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Joe Gibbs has a street based oil which I have found to be excellent. It held its viscosity far better than the Motul according to my oil reports.
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Old 03-11-2019, 02:16 PM
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djm68
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Originally Posted by Marine Blue View Post
Joe Gibbs has a street based oil which I have found to be excellent. It held its viscosity far better than the Motul according to my oil reports.
I assume you mean DT40, correct? What type of track usage does your 987.2 see?

DJM
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Old 03-11-2019, 02:33 PM
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Marine Blue
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Originally Posted by djm68 View Post
I assume you mean DT40, correct? What type of track usage does your 987.2 see?

DJM
Correct, DT40. My Spyder doesn’t see track usage but I do run it hard in the canyons, for long periods on hot days so the oil does get stressed. My tech also supports several 986, 987 and 981’s along with a host of GT cars and swears by it.
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Old 03-11-2019, 02:56 PM
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Oil is like religion, so you're probably going to get a scatterplot of feedback with little proof for any choice. I'm cool with M1 5w50 on track/street, which stays at or under 245F with third radiator.

One note, though, is that the spin on adapter is intended for use with a special re-useable/washable filter for track use. I don't think you're supposed to run just a NAPA filter on track. They are smaller and more restrictive than stock or the LN track filter, which will lower oil pressure.
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Old 03-11-2019, 03:21 PM
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All direct injection engines should use oil that has been formulated to eliminate or combat Low Speed Pre-Ignition (LPSI). This involves reducing Calcium, eliminating or nearly eliminating Sodium, and adding/balancing Molybdenum. Zinc and Phosphorous don't come in play with LPSI oil formulations. Also helps (but is not as important as additive balance) to have a Group IV full synthetic base stock with a significant percentage of mPAO (metallocene PAO) base stock. This helps reduce vaporization of the oil in the combustion chamber and forming microscopic droplets that contribute to LPSI. The mPAO also helps reduce vaporization in the crankcase as well and reduces friction slightly.

If you do an internet search for LPSI, you will have plenty to digest. LPSI is a problem for all DI engines, not just turbocharged, but turbocharging makes it much more of an issue. Jake Raby has some videos on his YouTube channel that describe LPSI and how it can cause failures on the 9A1 engines in our 981 and 991 cars. Not saying that it's a major problem, but it's something to pay attention to.

Since you mentioned DT-40, I learned that Driven reformulated the additive package in that oil a couple of years ago to help combat LPSI. I saw a big change in the additive blend in my UOA results and emailed them to inquire.

Any oil that has dexos1 Gen2 licensing on the bottle has been blended to fight LPSI, and also any oil with an API service classification of "SN Plus" in the donut on the back of the bottle has been blended and tested as proven to combat LPSI.

Driven started offering a line of oils specifically blended to combat LPSI, Direct Injection (DI) blends. They come in DI-20, DI-30, DI-40 and I think one thicker viscosity. The DI-40 is "slightly" better than DT-40 for fighting LPSI as stated by Lake Speed when I emailed him about it. I plan to switch to DI-40 at my next oil change. I've already switched my 2018 Denali 6.2L engine to DI-30.

If you have another oil you like and aren't sure of its formulation, investigate. LPSI is a real issue and not to be ignored. Not a crisis, just don't ignore it.

BTW, I was at AutoZone last weekend and when spot checking prices, the Mobil 1 and other name brand products that had SN Plus and/or dexos1 Gen2 were in the $11.50 per quart price range.
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Old 03-11-2019, 04:10 PM
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Can you confirm what the oil change intervals should be for the Motul 300V for street use? I don’t put lots of miles on my 987.2, usually 2500 a year max and I have changed the 8100 and DT40 at yearly intervals since mileage isn’t a factor.

I also need to look into the DI40 as a better option to the DT40.
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Old 03-11-2019, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Motul View Post
Hello there,
With no track days, 300V will be suitable for street use for 1 year or 5,000 miles, whichever comes first. -Nick
Thank you Nick, that’s good to know. Motul is much easier to find than Driven.
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Old 03-11-2019, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Marine Blue View Post
I also need to look into the DI40 as a better option to the DT40.
Watch this video from Lubrizol. They are one of the few additive manufacturers for motor oils in the world. Note that LPSI occurs below 2,500 RPM. For an engine that is tracked or raced, it rarely will be below 2,500 RPM. Where LPSI is a real concern is for street driven engines that frequently see RPM below 2,500 RPM. Durability and performance in racing conditions is important, but in street-driven high-compression direct injection engines, lower RPMs are where the specially formulated oils targeting LPSI can provide additional protection.


Also see: https://alternatesupercars.com/direc...d-be-your-oil/

And from API, in order for an oil to be classified as "SN Plus" it must have no more than 5 LPSI events during an ASTM test derived for such testing. Scroll down the document and read through it all (look for the red font in the specification sheet):
https://www.api.org/~/media/Files/Ce...7rev021218.pdf
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Old 03-11-2019, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by PorscheAddict View Post
Oil is like religion, so you're probably going to get a scatterplot of feedback with little proof for any choice. I'm cool with M1 5w50 on track/street, which stays at or under 245F with third radiator.

One note, though, is that the spin on adapter is intended for use with a special re-useable/washable filter for track use. I don't think you're supposed to run just a NAPA filter on track. They are smaller and more restrictive than stock or the LN track filter, which will lower oil pressure.
I am aware people will have a lot of different opinions, I did narrow my question down to 2 specific oils vs. a random 'what oil should I use' inquiry and specific questions about those two oils.

WRT the oil filer adapter: you are confusing the adapter for the 987.1; for the 987.2 application LN specifically recommends the NAPA 1348 https://lnengineering.com/spin-on-oi...yman-only.html

DJM
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Old 03-11-2019, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by okie981 View Post
Watch this video from Lubrizol. They are one of the few additive manufacturers for motor oils in the world. Note that LPSI occurs below 2,500 RPM. For an engine that is tracked or raced, it rarely will be below 2,500 RPM. Where LPSI is a real concern is for street driven engines that frequently see RPM below 2,500 RPM. Durability and performance in racing conditions is important, but in street-driven high-compression direct injection engines, lower RPMs are where the specially formulated oils targeting LPSI can provide additional protection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAX3Ez1W8hI

Also see: https://alternatesupercars.com/direc...d-be-your-oil/

And from API, in order for an oil to be classified as "SN Plus" it must have no more than 5 LPSI events during an ASTM test derived for such testing. Scroll down the document and read through it all (look for the red font in the specification sheet):
https://www.api.org/~/media/Files/Ce...7rev021218.pdf

Interesting for certain, but lacking relevance considering this thread is about a 90% track usage scenario.

DJM
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