UltraMagneticAL

i loved the M2 a lot. it replaced my e92 M3 coupe, which was only fun at the track due to the high-spinning motor. i loved that the m2 had torque down low for driving it around town, a back seat to take friends around, and also had some punch for light track duty. since we just had our first child, i ended up getting an M3 CS for more practicality and ease of getting a car seat in. Now that i have an even more practical sedan, i want a toy car to replace the M2. From what i've read, the 987.2 body is more stout compared to 981. i was at SoW w/ the m2 and dropped a wheel into the dirt while trying to cheat the chicane. i'm pretty sure an impact like that would end a 981, and i'd hate for my first porsche to go out like that. so i guess the question is, will i miss the power/torque going into a 987.2 CS or if i'm lucky enough to find an R, is it worth it if i'm going to beat the hell out of it? are the strut tower failures an over exaggerated problem on the 981 (or is that a gt4 only problem)? i'm in Commiefornia where all fun things are banned/restricted, so the 3.8 swap might be out of the question later down the line. thoughts?



ps: the m2 is still for sale at $40k and 18k miles, if anyone here wants it lol

andy7777

Not sure about the structural info you're getting.

987s or 981s aren't high torque cars, and they don't feel at all like an M3. Both will get you around the track fairly rapidly but in totally different ways.

At PCA track days there are tons of 987s, 981s and even 718s .lots of old 986 Boxster too. I'd say work backwards from your budget.

UltraMagneticAL

I think i saw it somewhere in this forum, but here's a link to the gt4 forum. not sure if it's a gt4 only problem or if it affects all caymans of the same gen.
https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/9483...r-failure.html

our tracks here in socal are mostly in the desert, so i'm bound to drop a wheel eventually

Rick-A-Shay

Location not mentioned but visit a track day with PCA/HOD and check out who and what is running on the track and get opinions. GT4 has an issue with blowing strut towers but not sure if design or aggressive driver/berm impact is the primary cause. There are a number of mods that can be done on a Cayman S like EVOMS or Cobb tune, IPD plenum, GT3 throttle body, GT3 brake master cylinder, Brembo brake upgrade (larger wheels required), all of which will help performance a little bit. It's really all in the exhaust as "more going in" requires "larger going out" and THAT is where CA has our hands tied. Any visual inspection on exhaust at inspection time can cause problems if the cats don't have a CA approved tag. Of course one can always change exhaust at inspection time.......
Above upgrades, if done well should not activate a "check engine" light. Oh, and it just boils down to money.............

UltraMagneticAL

Is it only the gt4 w/ that issue? erosion makes for some crazy elevation change between the dirt and track. its not like i'm gunning for the dirt, but i also don't want to worry about having an off while getting too aggressive. also we have some potholes that can swallow miatas here in SoCal lol

i don't mind the lower torque, and i understand the physics of having a lower power car that's lighter (my first track car back in college was an mr2 spyder). w/ the cayman i'll need to work on momentum making me faster rather than turbo power of the m2, and i'm ok w/ that. i can always add power after becoming more familiar w/ the platform - but i want to make sure i have a good place to start from and not be afraid to push my limits with the fear of a small mistake possibly totaling the car

A432

Welcome to the forum. Know exactly what you're saying and agree with everything you said. I believe the reason the GT4's seem to be having more tower issues is the shortened/stiffer suspension.
But there is a 981 here that just had a lower failure. Avoided going to the Lotus Exige because of the costs of something breaking going off track (same line of thought as 981 aluminum components now)
Regarding the shock tower thing, have a had a couple good offs at WS with the 987.2 that I thought damaged something for sure in the suspension/chassis and it had zero issues.

I've owned both the 987.2 S and R and have tracked the R pretty extensively.
Have also instructed in both over the last two years and can say the R is an awesome car, but you can do nearly the same with an S for less.
From the 9A1 engine to the 6sp. trans. to the chassis, the 987.2 is a tough car. (10,000+ hard time trial track miles on mine)

You probably will miss the torque initially. However, that will make you a much better driver because you'll learn to carry momentum through braking, turn-in, application of throttle and tracking out smoother.
I've had guys with M3/Z06/GTR's at ACS see the Cayman's faster times come up and ask what engine is in the car. When I say "stock" they can't believe it.
But it's all the other capabilities of the car and the driver. That's what makes it fun. It's not impressive in a straight line.

I'd get a 987.2 S that is either already prepped with good records, or since they are pretty rare, set up a stock one with the basic track needs to start such as 18" OZ's/NT01's/Pagid pads/SRF fluid/alignment (pref. with GT3 LCA's)/3rd. rad.
The PDK is pretty awesome, but, you run the risk of having potential issues and they are pretty pricey to replace since Porsche doesn't sell parts to fix them. So if you want a 6sp., that's a much more low maint./inexpensive way to go.
With all due respect to the vendors/members here, the exhaust/flash/intake/cats thing didn't make a big enough difference to be worth it on a 987.2. They're more for personal pref. and I wouldn't rec. 200 cell cats on a DE car.
You could do a 3.8 swap in CA but you have to be mum about it and make sure your DME monitors are all showing ready with no codes. One guy here told the inspection guy and his car is now illegal in CA unless he swaps the engine back.
There are some pics in my insta link. Let me know if I can offer any more info.

stout

981 Cayman GTS with X71 is sorely underrated. Just a great all around car, and sweeter on the street than the GT4 imo.

987 Cayman R plus suspension and a 3.8 or even 4.2 engine upgrade...very appealing. There are probably ways to do one even in CA that will pass the sniffer and visual tests, whether or not you have to change the cats back and forth—but there are others better equipped to answer that question.

A432

Pete, I think you're talking about the X73 sport suspension above correct? (similar to Cayman R rates)
I edited while you were posting above about the guy who's 3.8 swap is now flagged in CA. If he said nothing he would have passed (if the DME monitors also were ready with no codes)
One of the upcoming issues with smogs in CA is stations are being told to mirror the cats to make sure they're OEM with markings. How strictly this is adhered to with specific shops is unknown.

UltraMagneticAL

awesome info here. thanks! my best time at ACS was high 1:52 on PS4S in the M2. i have a lot of room to improve, and i know it's the momentum thing i've got to work on. When i took the m2 to SoW, i felt the over abundance of torque actually made me slower, so i think the 987.2 S would be a good training car for me. i originally wanted to get into a new GT4 if i could get an allocation, but i think i want to get used the MR platform again and become a better driver before i step up to a GT. I definitely will want a 6MT since my M3 is DCT. I'll probably run full stock for a season (except pads/fluids and wheels/tires) before doing any upgrades. If it doesn't rain next week, i plan on going to ACS in the M3 to see if i can go faster stock than i did in my modified m2 haha. i just gave you a follow on IG!

A432

Cool, you're welcome. High 1:52 at ACS on PS4S is a great time. You mentioned running stock for a season.
If you're thinking of running a DE or time trial class at POC or PCA, make sure to check the rules before spending $$$$ as they're slightly different.
Imho the 987.2 in either S or base form is a great momentum training car. You could argue the base is even better for that as long as the slower times don't bother you.(lower speed class)
There was a high mile base 987.2 that sold on BAT the other day for 19K. Can't beat that for great DE car that won't break the bank.

matttheboatman

Of the Cayman's I've owned; 987 base manual, 981 S pdk, 981 GTS pdk, GT4 - I agree with you Pete, the 981 GTS with X73 was my favorite driver.

I would recommend for less money that a 987 R, and less money than a GTS,

2014 - 2018 981 S ($47k ish) non-pasm car
with the following mods:
Fast tires,
X73 suspension swap,
And, a Cobb Tune with an upgraded exhaust of your choice.
PDK prefered for performance, 6 speed for fun.

The tune and exhaust will help with the lower torque of the Cayman.

stout

Sorry—yes, X73.

Interesting about the flagged 3.8. While I am one of those nuts who thinks cat delete is inexcusable on a street car, I also think CARB goes too far sometimes. If it blows clean, the visuals shouldn't matter.

Besides: Auto emissions are well past diminishing returns. I wish CA would focus on other ways to curb emissions, from hotel hallway lights that stay on all night to boats, planes, gas leaf blowers, etc—not to mention wind/solar/hydro power. Ah, and fires.

stout

GOOD idea about S, but also viable with 987.2 Cayman S. Had one with PDK and it was seriously quick at Laguna even in dead stock form, allowing me to catch up to a guy I raced with (we were about even on skill) in his dead stock 996 GT3 at Laguna. PDK and approachability were the equalizers that day. A 987.2 Cayman S PDK with suspension and brakes would be plenty of track day car for me for a very long time. Next step would be interior delete, then eventually down the rabbit hole for real.

Or maybe just buy one of the Napleton race cars? Then again, a street 987.2 Cayman S with plates, suspension, brakes, and no interior is pretty appealing…

UltraMagneticAL

w/ a 3.8 swap, are guys going to the state ref to get them passed or are they just trying to go to regular smog shops praying to pass? in my oooollllldddd honda days, a bunch of guys were trying to swap VTEC motors in their base civics to pass ref and avoid getting impounded when pulled over.

i don't mind swapping the exhaust & headers and then going back to stock when smog time comes, but a motor swap every time smog is due is a little harder to do.

A432

Agreed, but apparently the crazy CARB squeaky wheel has gotten greased in this case and we have the additional noise/regulation scrutiny to deal with.

Unfortunately, it's not about going to the state ref. for an approval because they will deny it due to the way the regs. are written in the 987.2's case.
What I believe happened is the '09-'12 2.9 has a ULEV certification while the '09-'12 DFI 3.4/3.8 has an LEV. You can't swap an LEV for a ULEV application.
Now maybe you could swap a '14+ ULEV 3.8, but the problem there is I believe the Siemens SDI changed to a MAP vs. MAF in the '14+ 3.8's.
So potentially you could reprogram the older Siemens SDI to run MAP, but my guess is you might need the newer Siemens/harness to take the newer MAP engine.
Or, he could have just said nothing and gone down to the local smog station and as long as the monitors were showing ready with no codes, they never would have known.
What does all this mean? For 987.2's, don't say a word if you plan to swap a 3.8 in. For 981's, the state ref. might approve it because it's ULEV to ULEV, but I'd still use the mum procedure.
In both cases make sure the monitors are ready and no codes are present prior to the test. Multiple 981's in CA have passed this way but they also didn't offer info. to the smog shops.