Any BMW M4 Owners....
02-04-2019, 10:56 AM
#16
Drifting
Everyone keeps talking about Boxster/Cayman lack of power, but have anyone consider the bolt on power upgrades (headers/exhaust/IPD/GT3 TB/intake/tune) to bring the power up to 370hp?
Last edited by ekam; 02-04-2019 at 11:13 AM.
02-04-2019, 10:56 AM
#17
No experience with Vettes, but M4s are horribly suspended and the motors are no longer of racing heritage or pedigree. They annoyingly crash over every bump, and lack a lot of feel. My former GF had one, and I didn't enjoy driving it, nor driving in it. BMWs lack the refinement of Porsche, and lack the lightweight feel. My 991.2 Targa 4S is about the same power, but the cars are world's apart. They ought to be considering the price difference. You'll see a lot more used BMWs on a Porsche lot than vise versa.
A lot depends on your use. 911s have no real usable back seat comparatively, and Boxsters/Caymans have none. For fun factor driving I'd look at used Cayman GT4s, used 981 Cayman GTS, or a new 718 Cayman GTS, in that order. If you want the best driving car for the money, find a mint 2012 Cayman R. Only 330 hp but better suspended (X73) than all but her GT4, and the steering is sublime as is with all 987s. Cayman R's are only 2800 pounds and are actually very quick and surreal balanced. They are incredible lightweight toys. They are also poised to start going up in value.
A lot depends on your use. 911s have no real usable back seat comparatively, and Boxsters/Caymans have none. For fun factor driving I'd look at used Cayman GT4s, used 981 Cayman GTS, or a new 718 Cayman GTS, in that order. If you want the best driving car for the money, find a mint 2012 Cayman R. Only 330 hp but better suspended (X73) than all but her GT4, and the steering is sublime as is with all 987s. Cayman R's are only 2800 pounds and are actually very quick and surreal balanced. They are incredible lightweight toys. They are also poised to start going up in value.
02-04-2019, 11:08 AM
#18
I could have spent a hell of a lot less money upfront and on maintenance and gotten a Corvette. Let alone the convenience of having a Chevy dealership on every block, as there is not a single Porsche dealership in my entire state. But the Corvette has too much power/torque for mere mortals on the road. Way too easy to get in over your head and endanger yourself and others. Granted, the C7 Grand Sport is supposed to do a very good job of balance between the base engine and Z06 suspension and aero, but I have not driven one to see how I feel about it.
With rare GT exceptions, that is the beauty of Porsche to me. Perfect balance of weight and power.
02-04-2019, 11:39 AM
#19
I was a BMW guy long before I was a Porsche guy, but as for the M4 convertible, I'd say pass. I found it massive and heavy on the road, even compared to my 4GC. Crazy power and torque, but sounds like it is gargling rocks. Plus, when you put the top down your trunk space becomes limited. But you do have a very usable back seat. If you need a back seat where people will actually ride it's the better option.
But I'd go Boxster GTS all day long.
I'd pick the 911 over the M4 as well. My PDK 991.2 somehow feels lighter and more nimble daily driving than my 981 GTS. But I prefer the Boxster for canyon carving and track duty. Manual, NA, and mid engine balance do it for me.
But I'd go Boxster GTS all day long.
I'd pick the 911 over the M4 as well. My PDK 991.2 somehow feels lighter and more nimble daily driving than my 981 GTS. But I prefer the Boxster for canyon carving and track duty. Manual, NA, and mid engine balance do it for me.
My Spyder which I sold due to lack of use/too many cars was perfectly balanced with power, and feel. Don’t let 375hp fool you because that’s apart of the feel, and usabale power needed for handling. Being a sub 3k lb car helps vs the porky M cars today. Wouldn’t touch any M product, and I was a long term BMW guy since 1999. Last two M cars was the F10 M5 and M4 0 for 2 on BMW experiments. I enjoy driving my wife’s AMG GLC 63 all day and twice on Sunday vs the M4 says a lot.
02-04-2019, 12:02 PM
#20
I test drove an M4 and was unimpressed. Before I purchased my Boxster I had a couple of Vettes. I actually prefer the Boxster’s useable power delivery
and slot car handling. The Chevy’s were big fun but were hard to drive well, especially fast. I kind of miss the last one.....Atomic Orange over Champagne.
02-04-2019, 03:35 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
Stumbled across this thread and thought I would chime in. My local dealer has two M’s (CS’ in stock, they are a BMW dealer as well), I am intrigued by the M3 CS, I haven’t driven one, will do so next week, however reading the road tests it sure sounds like a car that could become a 911 meets AMG like experience with a 4 doors and a trunk. As I said nothing to base that off of other than on line reviews but I’ll take a spin ( weather pending) next week and find out for myself.
02-04-2019, 10:37 PM
#22
Curious to hear from current and former M4 owners. I've been cross shopping a Boxster and corvette but the M4 keeps popping up as a good potential option. On the used market, all 3 are in the same price ballpark. The M4 is obviously a lot more of a practical car than the other two, but maybe it's also a lot more sterile?
as far as performance goes, you'll want to get the M4 ZCP. The "base" M4 does not handle as well and has problems putting the power down. the ZCP also has a different (and imo, better) exhaust note than the base M4. I don't remember if they made a ZCP convertible though.
here's my M3CS (and M2 way in the background). if you have the means, the M4CS is pretty freakin nuts too. the CS comes w/ the aero and wheels.
edit: the M2 Competition is also really good since it has a detuned M3/4 motor. you can easily flash a tune on it and make some monster power if you're into that kind of thing.
02-04-2019, 11:16 PM
#23
I cross shopped between the M cars and Cayman S. Out of all the M cars I like the M2 the best, then the M3 and M4 is my least favorite. I don't know whats with the M4, but it felt heavier and disconnected than the M3 to drive. M2 is my favorite because it is so much fun to drive. But I decided not to buy any of the BMW's since I have a 335i MSport with all the goodies (Intake + Exhaust + Tune) and the difference in experience was not worth the ~50 I would have spent on one. The Cayman/Boxster is a completely different car and is a world away in experience from the BMWs. I ended up with a Cayman GTS.
I recommend you try driving all the cars as much as you can before you make a decision. You can drive all the M cars if you attend BMW's "free" UDE events if they are near you. I wonder if Porsche has any events like that.
I recommend you try driving all the cars as much as you can before you make a decision. You can drive all the M cars if you attend BMW's "free" UDE events if they are near you. I wonder if Porsche has any events like that.
02-05-2019, 01:51 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
I drove the M3/M4 during the M Track Days event and while I was impressed with how they performed at a stock level, I just can't get over the exhaust sound. Of course that's not to say that can't be modified but I consider the E46 to be the last great M car for the 3-series.
However if you need the practicality and don't mind the sound, it's a sharp looking car with plenty of low-end torque for driving around town.
However if you need the practicality and don't mind the sound, it's a sharp looking car with plenty of low-end torque for driving around town.
02-05-2019, 02:03 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
i'm not an M4 owner, but i do have the M3CS. i skipped the M4 when it came time to replace my E92 M3. I actually got the M2 first, had a baby, got the 4 door M3CS, and now i'm trying to sell my M2 so i can replace it w/ a Cayman S or GT4 if prices ever go down.
as far as performance goes, you'll want to get the M4 ZCP. The "base" M4 does not handle as well and has problems putting the power down. the ZCP also has a different (and imo, better) exhaust note than the base M4. I don't remember if they made a ZCP convertible though.
here's my M3CS (and M2 way in the background). if you have the means, the M4CS is pretty freakin nuts too. the CS comes w/ the aero and wheels.
edit: the M2 Competition is also really good since it has a detuned M3/4 motor. you can easily flash a tune on it and make some monster power if you're into that kind of thing.
as far as performance goes, you'll want to get the M4 ZCP. The "base" M4 does not handle as well and has problems putting the power down. the ZCP also has a different (and imo, better) exhaust note than the base M4. I don't remember if they made a ZCP convertible though.
here's my M3CS (and M2 way in the background). if you have the means, the M4CS is pretty freakin nuts too. the CS comes w/ the aero and wheels.
edit: the M2 Competition is also really good since it has a detuned M3/4 motor. you can easily flash a tune on it and make some monster power if you're into that kind of thing.
very pretty!
02-05-2019, 03:43 PM
#26
Track Day
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Thanks for all the replies...
I appreciate the input. As stated above, I think a fair amount of folks cross shop many of these cars that do appear to be very different. However, if you're in the market for an extra car (non-Daily Driver), and can spend around high $30s to low $50s (on used vehicles) the cluster of Boxster/Cayman/Vette/M4 tends to make their way into the analysis. If you want a fun car, something that stirs the soul a bit, aren't brand loyal, and don't want a muscle or rally car, it's sort of what you end up with in my budget. If my budget was A LOT higher, I might be cross shopping an R8, GTR, 911 Turbo, etc.
I've got a bit more test driving to do before I'm ready to pull the trigger. Currently, my head is swirling...some days I'm convinced its a Boxster, and others its the Vette. Then the M4 will pop in. I always over analyze every thing, but eventually I come to a place where I can make a buy with confidence that I'm getting the "right" car for me.
I've got a bit more test driving to do before I'm ready to pull the trigger. Currently, my head is swirling...some days I'm convinced its a Boxster, and others its the Vette. Then the M4 will pop in. I always over analyze every thing, but eventually I come to a place where I can make a buy with confidence that I'm getting the "right" car for me.
02-14-2019, 09:38 PM
#28
Advanced
Current M4 owner here. I ordered it custom, 6 speed, austin yellow, carbon roof. Bone stock with only EDC suspension as an option.
I LOVE THIS CAR. I didn't want PDC or rear view cameras, heads up display, nothing. I wanted a drivers BMW. I regret nothing, well, not yet.
I track the car regularly and swap the brake pads and tires/wheels for events. The power is addictive and at the end of sessions I sometimes get yelled at for drifting too much.
It does weight a bit at 3500lbs, but the front grips so well. The rear subframe being bolted directly to the chassis with no bushings means you can literally drive through a corner with the throttle. The sound it makes is great IMO, quiet but raspy at high revs. A little burly down low to know it's got the goods. The creature comforts are top notch, the audio system is perfect, the auto wipers, headlights, nav, you name it. I like how it rev matches for you unless you are in "MAN-MODE", or Sport+ as normal people call it. Oh you're at the track and want sport+? Well, prepare to heel toe or GTFO. Stability control is for pansies and I'm glad it's fully off. So yeah, I think I'm really gonna miss my girl.
My 3 year lease is up and I've decided that I am not going to purchase the lease because to dollars don't make sense. I've spent numerous hours researching my next car. I've always wanted a Porsche, and purchased a 987.2 CS 6 speed. I'm getting the car shipped to me and should have it in a week or two.
I have no idea what it will be like to drive in anger. Now that I've pulled the trigger I feel I may have made a mistake. Every time I drive the M4, I think, "this car is so perfect, it does everything I want it to". The LSD means I can be a hooligan literally any damn time I feel like it. What's that? I have to make a u-turn, bam sideways u-turn. Need to make a pass, sure thing, 425hp and whatever TQ it has and I'm off. All of it. BEST OF ALL, when I drive 24/7 with all the nannies off except ABS which you cannot shut off. I love the car this way, if I drive off a cliff, it's my own damn fault. I don't think Porsche allows the PSM to be fully switched off.
here's a backroad of her;
some laguna seca action;
and if you've never seen Thunderhill run backwards;
I LOVE THIS CAR. I didn't want PDC or rear view cameras, heads up display, nothing. I wanted a drivers BMW. I regret nothing, well, not yet.
I track the car regularly and swap the brake pads and tires/wheels for events. The power is addictive and at the end of sessions I sometimes get yelled at for drifting too much.
It does weight a bit at 3500lbs, but the front grips so well. The rear subframe being bolted directly to the chassis with no bushings means you can literally drive through a corner with the throttle. The sound it makes is great IMO, quiet but raspy at high revs. A little burly down low to know it's got the goods. The creature comforts are top notch, the audio system is perfect, the auto wipers, headlights, nav, you name it. I like how it rev matches for you unless you are in "MAN-MODE", or Sport+ as normal people call it. Oh you're at the track and want sport+? Well, prepare to heel toe or GTFO. Stability control is for pansies and I'm glad it's fully off. So yeah, I think I'm really gonna miss my girl.
My 3 year lease is up and I've decided that I am not going to purchase the lease because to dollars don't make sense. I've spent numerous hours researching my next car. I've always wanted a Porsche, and purchased a 987.2 CS 6 speed. I'm getting the car shipped to me and should have it in a week or two.
I have no idea what it will be like to drive in anger. Now that I've pulled the trigger I feel I may have made a mistake. Every time I drive the M4, I think, "this car is so perfect, it does everything I want it to". The LSD means I can be a hooligan literally any damn time I feel like it. What's that? I have to make a u-turn, bam sideways u-turn. Need to make a pass, sure thing, 425hp and whatever TQ it has and I'm off. All of it. BEST OF ALL, when I drive 24/7 with all the nannies off except ABS which you cannot shut off. I love the car this way, if I drive off a cliff, it's my own damn fault. I don't think Porsche allows the PSM to be fully switched off.
here's a backroad of her;
some laguna seca action;
and if you've never seen Thunderhill run backwards;
02-15-2019, 07:26 AM
#29
Three Wheelin'
Current M4 owner here. I ordered it custom, 6 speed, austin yellow, carbon roof. Bone stock with only EDC suspension as an option.
I LOVE THIS CAR. I didn't want PDC or rear view cameras, heads up display, nothing. I wanted a drivers BMW. I regret nothing, well, not yet.
I track the car regularly and swap the brake pads and tires/wheels for events. The power is addictive and at the end of sessions I sometimes get yelled at for drifting too much.
It does weight a bit at 3500lbs, but the front grips so well. The rear subframe being bolted directly to the chassis with no bushings means you can literally drive through a corner with the throttle. The sound it makes is great IMO, quiet but raspy at high revs. A little burly down low to know it's got the goods. The creature comforts are top notch, the audio system is perfect, the auto wipers, headlights, nav, you name it. I like how it rev matches for you unless you are in "MAN-MODE", or Sport+ as normal people call it. Oh you're at the track and want sport+? Well, prepare to heel toe or GTFO. Stability control is for pansies and I'm glad it's fully off. So yeah, I think I'm really gonna miss my girl.
My 3 year lease is up and I've decided that I am not going to purchase the lease because to dollars don't make sense. I've spent numerous hours researching my next car. I've always wanted a Porsche, and purchased a 987.2 CS 6 speed. I'm getting the car shipped to me and should have it in a week or two.
I have no idea what it will be like to drive in anger. Now that I've pulled the trigger I feel I may have made a mistake. Every time I drive the M4, I think, "this car is so perfect, it does everything I want it to". The LSD means I can be a hooligan literally any damn time I feel like it. What's that? I have to make a u-turn, bam sideways u-turn. Need to make a pass, sure thing, 425hp and whatever TQ it has and I'm off. All of it. BEST OF ALL, when I drive 24/7 with all the nannies off except ABS which you cannot shut off. I love the car this way, if I drive off a cliff, it's my own damn fault. I don't think Porsche allows the PSM to be fully switched off.
I LOVE THIS CAR. I didn't want PDC or rear view cameras, heads up display, nothing. I wanted a drivers BMW. I regret nothing, well, not yet.
I track the car regularly and swap the brake pads and tires/wheels for events. The power is addictive and at the end of sessions I sometimes get yelled at for drifting too much.
It does weight a bit at 3500lbs, but the front grips so well. The rear subframe being bolted directly to the chassis with no bushings means you can literally drive through a corner with the throttle. The sound it makes is great IMO, quiet but raspy at high revs. A little burly down low to know it's got the goods. The creature comforts are top notch, the audio system is perfect, the auto wipers, headlights, nav, you name it. I like how it rev matches for you unless you are in "MAN-MODE", or Sport+ as normal people call it. Oh you're at the track and want sport+? Well, prepare to heel toe or GTFO. Stability control is for pansies and I'm glad it's fully off. So yeah, I think I'm really gonna miss my girl.
My 3 year lease is up and I've decided that I am not going to purchase the lease because to dollars don't make sense. I've spent numerous hours researching my next car. I've always wanted a Porsche, and purchased a 987.2 CS 6 speed. I'm getting the car shipped to me and should have it in a week or two.
I have no idea what it will be like to drive in anger. Now that I've pulled the trigger I feel I may have made a mistake. Every time I drive the M4, I think, "this car is so perfect, it does everything I want it to". The LSD means I can be a hooligan literally any damn time I feel like it. What's that? I have to make a u-turn, bam sideways u-turn. Need to make a pass, sure thing, 425hp and whatever TQ it has and I'm off. All of it. BEST OF ALL, when I drive 24/7 with all the nannies off except ABS which you cannot shut off. I love the car this way, if I drive off a cliff, it's my own damn fault. I don't think Porsche allows the PSM to be fully switched off.
You got the M4 in the right configuration, and used it the right way, and enjoyed it- and it seems your driving style suited the M4. I feel like I would have been in a similar boat if I lived in SoCal with all the access to great driving roads and race tracks you guys have there (I live in DC Metro). I don't think the Cayman will disappoint overall, but I'm very curious to get your take on the differences in ownership experience after you've had some time to take it all in.
02-15-2019, 12:29 PM
#30
Track Day
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Join Date: Jan 2019
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Current M4 owner here. I ordered it custom, 6 speed, austin yellow, carbon roof. Bone stock with only EDC suspension as an option.
I LOVE THIS CAR. I didn't want PDC or rear view cameras, heads up display, nothing. I wanted a drivers BMW. I regret nothing, well, not yet.
I track the car regularly and swap the brake pads and tires/wheels for events. The power is addictive and at the end of sessions I sometimes get yelled at for drifting too much.
It does weight a bit at 3500lbs, but the front grips so well. The rear subframe being bolted directly to the chassis with no bushings means you can literally drive through a corner with the throttle. The sound it makes is great IMO, quiet but raspy at high revs. A little burly down low to know it's got the goods. The creature comforts are top notch, the audio system is perfect, the auto wipers, headlights, nav, you name it. I like how it rev matches for you unless you are in "MAN-MODE", or Sport+ as normal people call it. Oh you're at the track and want sport+? Well, prepare to heel toe or GTFO. Stability control is for pansies and I'm glad it's fully off. So yeah, I think I'm really gonna miss my girl.
My 3 year lease is up and I've decided that I am not going to purchase the lease because to dollars don't make sense. I've spent numerous hours researching my next car. I've always wanted a Porsche, and purchased a 987.2 CS 6 speed. I'm getting the car shipped to me and should have it in a week or two.
I have no idea what it will be like to drive in anger. Now that I've pulled the trigger I feel I may have made a mistake. Every time I drive the M4, I think, "this car is so perfect, it does everything I want it to". The LSD means I can be a hooligan literally any damn time I feel like it. What's that? I have to make a u-turn, bam sideways u-turn. Need to make a pass, sure thing, 425hp and whatever TQ it has and I'm off. All of it. BEST OF ALL, when I drive 24/7 with all the nannies off except ABS which you cannot shut off. I love the car this way, if I drive off a cliff, it's my own damn fault. I don't think Porsche allows the PSM to be fully switched off.
here's a backroad of her;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7igutoO6yo&t=127s
some laguna seca action;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCJWjACc4u4&t=388s
and if you've never seen Thunderhill run backwards;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEZCvC8My_Q
I LOVE THIS CAR. I didn't want PDC or rear view cameras, heads up display, nothing. I wanted a drivers BMW. I regret nothing, well, not yet.
I track the car regularly and swap the brake pads and tires/wheels for events. The power is addictive and at the end of sessions I sometimes get yelled at for drifting too much.
It does weight a bit at 3500lbs, but the front grips so well. The rear subframe being bolted directly to the chassis with no bushings means you can literally drive through a corner with the throttle. The sound it makes is great IMO, quiet but raspy at high revs. A little burly down low to know it's got the goods. The creature comforts are top notch, the audio system is perfect, the auto wipers, headlights, nav, you name it. I like how it rev matches for you unless you are in "MAN-MODE", or Sport+ as normal people call it. Oh you're at the track and want sport+? Well, prepare to heel toe or GTFO. Stability control is for pansies and I'm glad it's fully off. So yeah, I think I'm really gonna miss my girl.
My 3 year lease is up and I've decided that I am not going to purchase the lease because to dollars don't make sense. I've spent numerous hours researching my next car. I've always wanted a Porsche, and purchased a 987.2 CS 6 speed. I'm getting the car shipped to me and should have it in a week or two.
I have no idea what it will be like to drive in anger. Now that I've pulled the trigger I feel I may have made a mistake. Every time I drive the M4, I think, "this car is so perfect, it does everything I want it to". The LSD means I can be a hooligan literally any damn time I feel like it. What's that? I have to make a u-turn, bam sideways u-turn. Need to make a pass, sure thing, 425hp and whatever TQ it has and I'm off. All of it. BEST OF ALL, when I drive 24/7 with all the nannies off except ABS which you cannot shut off. I love the car this way, if I drive off a cliff, it's my own damn fault. I don't think Porsche allows the PSM to be fully switched off.
here's a backroad of her;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7igutoO6yo&t=127s
some laguna seca action;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCJWjACc4u4&t=388s
and if you've never seen Thunderhill run backwards;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEZCvC8My_Q