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Yes, ideally everything the same but a little lower — 10mm, down to X73 height or a tad lower. But also curious about options that limit pasm adjustability (single fixed setting).
Yes, removed dampers and installed KWv3s, adjustable toe links, GT4 Sub-brace and camber plates. Car is 10x more confident and compliant. One of my favorite handling cars for both the street and track.
Look into replacing the springs with OEM Porsche X73 springs. It's been done with good results...
Originally Posted by Apex1
Lovetoturn lives in Houston as is a regular at COTA. You could give him a PM relating to your interest in the X-73 spring replacement on your PASM shocks. He would be more than happy to answer your questions as he is a big promoter of using Porsche equipment in different ways to better the racing outcome. Lovetoturn also changed the PASM controller to the TPC unit, which has much more adjustability in compression/rebound of the shock. This maybe what you are getting to as far as use on wavy tracks. The springs will fit your PASM shocks, the weight of your car is almost the same wt of the 981 and the wt ratio front to rear is the same. The X-73 springs are very close to the R spring rate.
The reason I am interested is that if I started all over again, that is the direction I would go, rather than using an after market coilover, Ohlins, with a stiffer spring rate, and adjustability for both road and track, but not at my finger tips. I need to manually adjust the shock rebound/compression and this one valve does not change the mapping like the TPC controller does. Lovetoturn says he can change the compression rate on the outside shock to almost take the place of the swaybar, keeping the car almost flat on heavy G force turns.
Look into replacing the springs with OEM Porsche X73 springs. It's been done with good results...
Interesting, thx. Concerned if this would make the car too stiff, especially in the PASM sport mode. This would be on a Boxster for use strictly on back-roads. No track -- have a race car for that.
No the ride is not too stiff at all. When in sport mode it is almost identical to a full X73 suspension as compared by the butt dyno and by looking at the PASM and X73 shock valving curves (below). The ride is sublime and you get the best of both worlds at a touch of a button. I can not recommend it highly enough. I have the DSC PASM controller, but you don't need that for the street. I would get both X73 springs and the sway bars for sure in order to keep the integrity of the system together. This is Porsche's tried and true secret sauce for these cars. There are hundreds and hundreds of hours of development behind this combo by Porsche engineers. How can you beat that!
Plenty of posts about this under my call sign over on P-9.
No the ride is not too stiff at all. When in sport mode it is almost identical to a full X73 suspension as compared by the butt dyno and by looking at the PASM and X73 shock valving curves (below). The ride is sublime and you get the best of both worlds at a touch of a button. I can not recommend it highly enough. I have the DSC PASM controller, but you don't need that for the street. I would get both X73 springs and the sway bars for sure in order to keep the integrity of the system together. This is Porsche's tried and true secret sauce for these cars. There are hundreds and hundreds of hours of development behind this combo by Porsche engineers. How can you beat that!
Plenty of posts about this under my call sign over on P-9.
Thanks! Still looking to buy a 981 Boxster S/GTS. Getting the full X73 suspension was always an option if I got one with the standard suspension. Good to know that it would still be possible with a PASM option, but probably an overkill for a street car. I’ve read that PASM in sport mode feels stiffer than X73, so I assumed that PASM with X73 springs would feel even stifer still. The way I understand this, there are now 6 possible suspension modes which I’ll try to list from stiffest to softest (my guess):
1. PASM+X73 springs in sport mode
2. PASM in sport mode
3. X73
4. PASM+X73 springs in normal mode
5. Standard suspension
6. PASM in normal mode
Does the above make sense? I’m assuming that putting the X73 springs on PASM shocks would lower the car to X73 height (-10mm lower than PASM and -20mm lower than standard)?
The way I understand this, there are now 6 possible suspension modes which I’ll try to list from stiffest to softest (my guess):
1. PASM+X73 springs in sport mode
2. PASM in sport mode
3. X73
4. PASM+X73 springs in normal mode
5. Standard suspension
6. PASM in normal mode
The DSC may not be necessary, but my understanding is it makes PASM softer when in "Normal" mode and stiffer when in "Sport" mode than both settings from the factory. That might re-order the above list when used in conjuction with DSC. At a certain point the DSC controller will be limited by hardware, but my understanding is the programmable nature of the controller allows it to meet or even exceed the factory PASM settings, possibly even when X73 springs are utilized. ???
Originally Posted by lovetoturn
I have the DSC PASM controller, but you don't need that for the street.
Does your DSC Sport PASM controller utilize the same settings as off-the-shelf when used with factory PASM, or have the settings been modified by you or an alternate setting created by DSC to work specifically with the PASM+X73 setup?
To set the record straight, PASM in sport is definitely not stiffer than X73. The X73 springs are about 7% and 9% stiffer than the PASM ones. The average setting of the PASM shock in sport is about equivalent to the fixed X73 shock. The PASM shock can however get a little softer or stiffer depending of the driving conditions, but still has the softer springs 100% of the time. The X73 set up is a perfect match of shock and spring for sporty driving in a Cayman. Porsche knows what they are doing! With PASM it's a bit of a compromise. In normal the shocks are slightly softer than the ideal ride might demand relative to the spring and feels like a ride based more on the springs. In sport mode the shocks are a little stiffer than you might want for the springs and the car feels a little edgier or more of a shock controlled type of ride. Some may confuse that as stiffer, but it is really just a little bit more nervous.
The DSC allows you to make normal and sport exactly what you want it to be. It is a collection of 484 data points with other variables to adjust as well. I my case, it is basically 100% stiff almost everywhere for sport mode at the track and a little stiffer than the stock PASM setting in normal mode for me. Again everything is adjustable as noted on the table below. If you do not go to the track, the stock PASM box is fine. The stock PASM box is also fine for the track. I would say that you only need the DSC sport PASM box if you routinely go to the track and are an advanced driver.
Each dot is one of the wheel's (LF, RF, LR, RR) shock setting as a percentage of full, for a cluster of 4 on each of the parameter points (blue box) based on the g forces of cornering, braking, and or accelerating. You can adjust each wheel individually for each of 121 (11x11) data points. The darker the dot, the stiffer that particular shock is set. If you mate the X73 springs and sway bars with the PASM shocks you essentially have the modern day Sport PASM. The DSC sport box is just icing on an already amazing cake.
Here are all of the data points lit up. It is a bit of work to customize your setting, but you can do whatever you want and folks at DSC are always available to help out with friendly advice.
Another option are the H&R VTF adjustable lowering springs. H&R Special Springs, LP. (hrsprings.com)
They specifically state that they work with PASM. I called and confirmed that they also work with non-PASM suspensions so I took chance and got them for my 14 CS with standard suspension. My car has 20" sport techno wheels and had huge wheel gaps that I wanted to reduce. The H&R VTF adjustable springs lowered my car about 30mm. More than I expected but it looks good in my opinion and I don't have a scraping problem with my driveway which is a plus. I don't know what the spring rate is compared to X73 but the ride seems very similar to stock, however being lower the car feels much better planted on cornering and I could get 2.1 neg camber on the rear. Another plus is that the front springs come with an adjustable lower spring perch.
Interesting, thx. Concerned if this would make the car too stiff, especially in the PASM sport mode. This would be on a Boxster for use strictly on back-roads. No track -- have a race car for that.
I agree with Chris Harris that sports car suspensions are often degraded by lowering (or stiffening) the factory calibrated stock suspension as people often incorrectly equate these changes and the associated change in feel with increasing performance.
I recently bought a Cayman S with PASM that has bilstein PSS10’s on it. I believe they’re still available to buy and you can have 2 settings working with the PASM button on them for regular vs firm.
I’ve no reference for ride comparison so can’t speak to how it compares to stock. (I haven’t checked what they’re set at yet either)I’d be curious to know how it compares if set to the softest setting compared to the factory setup, I’ve searched but haven’t found anything.
The car is low, it is a pretty firm ride but surprisingly good for 20” wheels and the ride height IMO.
IMO the X73 is a great out of the box suspension. My Boxster GTS came fitted with it and my sons Cayman S came with PASM. We swapped out the PASM with the X73 and IMO it is just that much better that I would just do it and not bother trying to adjust the PASM. I also prefer the lowered stance. If you want these cars to really handle on track then custom MCS 3WR suspension is IMO the only way to go.
12-25-2018, 02:26 PM
Anyone lowered their PASM 981?
