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These cars seem to have parasitic draw just by design. I use a charger that plugs into the 12V inside. Even in sleep mode they'll kill a Pb battery in a month and a lithium battery in 7-10 days. Just get in the habit of plugging them in. Most exotics also have this problem. I've killed two lithium batteries because of it.
Unfortunately this last time, Hurricane Florence killed the outlet I was plugged into, and I didn't notice until too late (cause I was too occupied with the rest of our trashed house). I'm still sticking with lithium. I just like how light they are. Put in a kill switch and they'll last a year without a charge.
I had heard something about a battery problem on these cars but didn’t know the particulars. I thought it was a problem with the battery but apparently when it was checked out of the the car it checked ok. So I’m back to checking for any draw down of the battery. We live on the Oregon coast so we can use the car pretty much year round so wil be driving it more often. Sorry to hear about your home. Hope you can recover your home and hope your car is ok too. Thanks for the info.
These cars seem to have parasitic draw just by design. I use a charger that plugs into the 12V inside. Even in sleep mode they'll kill a Pb battery in a month and a lithium battery in 7-10 days. Just get in the habit of plugging them in. Most exotics also have this problem. I've killed two lithium batteries because of it.
Unfortunately this last time, Hurricane Florence killed the outlet I was plugged into, and I didn't notice until too late (cause I was too occupied with the rest of our trashed house). I'm still sticking with lithium. I just like how light they are. Put in a kill switch and they'll last a year without a charge.
Hello everyone. Another option in the Lithium department for those that might be interested would be our RS-30. In a scenario like yours dovecom, the battery will actually put itself to sleep before getting over discharged. It will also retain enough reserve power to start the car at the press of a button. From there, the car would be able to charge the battery back up to full capacity. While any battery, whether it is lithium or lead/acid, is harmed by being over discharged (under 10.5v) The RS-30 will not let itself be put in this state so you can expect a much longer life out of the battery as a whole.
My new Antigravity battery arrived today. It's not the flyweight my others were, but it has the onboard management I need to keep from killing it again. Unlike my others though, they claim it needs a lithium specific charger. It's always something. If you look at the specs, and value weight reduction and a potential long life product, you should look at these. I just wish they were smaller and another few lbs lighter.
My new Antigravity battery arrived today. It's not the flyweight my others were, but it has the onboard management I need to keep from killing it again. Unlike my others though, they claim it needs a lithium specific charger. It's always something. If you look at the specs, and value weight reduction and a potential long life product, you should look at these. I just wish they were smaller and another few lbs lighter.
Hey Dovecom...
Thanks for getting one of our Batteries , also I wanted to point out a couple things so you can better understand the RS-30, which is the battery I assume you bought....
1) If you unhappy for any reason return it to us, we'll fully refund you without question. So don't worry about that side of things. Even if you've used it for a month...
2) We also have much smaller and lighter models of our batteries that are comparable, and most likely a bit better than our competitors due to our latest technology BMS, which most the others don't have. But the thing to understand is a super lightweight battery is super lightweight because it has a much smaller battery cell pack inside. So you do not have as many Amp Hours (Ah), nor as much Cranking Power... The RS-30 is 11.5lbs and has 30Ah. So you still save about 35lbs over the typical Group 48/H6 Battery found in most the Porsche Sports Cars. But you also have 30Ah which is a real Battery Capacity that can handle most anything, including cold weather starts, emergencies and having to leave the lights on, and a long static sitting time in a Cayman. I have a Cayman owner in CA and his longest sitting time was 7 weeks and he said the voltage was still at 13.1 so that means he can get even more sitting time. But note that if you have any extra aftermarket accessories that can change the amount of time a car can sit due to the increased Parasitic draw. But I have a 2016 GT3RS and it has sat 8 weeks and still started fine and been at 13.07 after 8 weeks. We actually just wanted to make it be able to handle about a 5-6 week stint in a Performance Car. And it is doing well beyond that in the Porsches(2014 and forward), and most other Performance Cars (Vipers, Lambos, Vettes, Tuners). But in Porsche, due to the excellent shut down of systems within the 2014 and later models has a very low Parasitic draw.
o please test and see how long you can sit without driving and give us an update. I can tell you it should blow away what you were getting from any other Lithium Batteries, but again, this ultimately is due to having a stock system without aftermarket things like 24hr cameras, USB chargers that are aftermarket etc....
3) As you pointed out the battery has built-in protections... so you not going to be able to damage the battery unless you try to... which would still be hard. It will just put itself to sleep if you drain it down to far, then you just re-start it by pressing the RE-START button. So this means it won't be taken into the 9v area which damages Lead/Acid or Lithium Batteries. So it will keep the battery in a position of never going into a low voltage so the Lithium Cells stay healthy always. So tpgether with the fact that the cells we used are rated at 2500 cycles compared to Lead/Acid Cycles rated at about 1000 and you should be getting about 7-8 years out of the battery and we warranty it for 5 years, prorated after 3 years. So you'll be in good shape.
4) We only recommend Lithium Chargers because Lead/Acid Chargers have modes like De-Sulphate which can spike voltages above 20v when it goes into that mode. Lead/Acid batteries can Sulphate, Lithium does not ever Sulphate, so we just stay away from saying you can use a Lead/Acid Charger even though our battery has protections. Its about using the correct tool for the job. Lead/Acid also has a high level of self-discharge so the lead acid chargers often keep cycling to keep a lead acid battery topped off, this is necessary on a Lithium Battery and creates a potential over-charging of the Lithium. Yes you can use a Lead/Charger on a Lithium Battery for 20 minutes in an emergency and all will be fine... but if you leave it on there it can damage the battery ultimately. So being we have a great reputation for our products and stand behind them we also want to see they are maintained using the correct charger.
5) Also note, I don't really want you to keep the battery on a Charger... no one really should... UNLESS YOU HAVE TO because of storage or you just can't find the time to do a maintenance charge every month or two since you are not driving the car alot. You won't need a maintenance charge on the Lithium Battery if you are driving once a month or 6 weeks and your car is starting and you don't have aftermarket accessories draining your battery. You should just leave the charger off and only charge when absolutely necessary. The dirty secret is chargers are actually just cycling the battery unnecessarily when you leave them on months at a time, and this is not good for a battery, its actually wearing it out a little. Yes this is fine for cars in storage or just rarely driven, but if your driving and the car is starting your are perfectly good.
That is a great response to the questions about the RS-30. The larger question is WHY DID YOU LET YOUR GT3RS SIT FOR 8 WEEKS WITHOUT DRIVING IT!!!!!!!!! That is a sin!
What kind of permanent damage does the battery sustain when it is discharged far enough to hit sleep mode? I will test it if it won't damage it. I work from home and sometimes don't need to leave for weeks.
Does putting it in sleep mode disconnect it, so it won't be further depleted by parasitic draw? I'm guessing NO. So I'm thinking of installing a physical cut-off switch like in a race car.
My only aftermarket changes are a Bluetooth adapter on my OBD connector and I replaced one 12V receptacle for a dual USB with LED lights (which remain on). Hardly enough drain combined to pull a full battery down to 1.5V in under 4 weeks of disuse.
I have a really nice charger, an Accucel 6 from Turnigy. But it won't work on your battery because it is a load balancing charger and must connect to an additional multi-pin connector. Why didn't you put a load balancing connector on the battery? I also have a nice Schumacher charger but it's not LiPo specific so out that goes too.
Finally. I wanted to velcro it down like my others, but you have a grid bottom. Why? That raises the CG of the battery, makes it taller and therefore harder to fit in tight places. And for what purpose? Why not just a flat bottom? I'd like to grind it off but the warranty is more important.
Having you here, providing actual info is ultimately why I chose your battery. So thanks.
What kind of permanent damage does the battery sustain when it is discharged far enough to hit sleep mode? I will test it if it won't damage it. I work from home and sometimes don't need to leave for weeks.
Does putting it in sleep mode disconnect it, so it won't be further depleted by parasitic draw? I'm guessing NO. So I'm thinking of installing a physical cut-off switch like in a race car.
There is absolutely NO DAMAGE to our Batteries with RE-START... they have the voltage cut-off (sleep mode) set a good bit above any area where damage may occur. FYI, damage to Lithium or Lead occurs below 10.5v... So for any battery stay away from that range and below. On ours you don't have to worry about it. It will cut off in the 12v range... so you are completely clear of any damage to the battery.
My only aftermarket changes are a Bluetooth adapter on my OBD connector and I replaced one 12V receptacle for a dual USB with LED lights (which remain on). Hardly enough drain combined to pull a full battery down to 1.5V in under 4 weeks of disuse.
Not so accurate Dove, do not ever trust a small Charger or LED to only draw a "little current". Those USB Chargers do not consider the draw when they are designed. The don't care or think about it. They just build them to charge USB devices and some of them stay "ON" even when your car is OFF and drain the energy from your battery. Porsche spent a ton of time and effort to get these cars to shut down their systems when you turn them off and take the key out of range of the car searching for it. The aftermarket additions/electronic change the dynamic. So don't "think" they won't create a significant draw on the battery. I would remove them and only use them when necessary... OR leave them on and test how long the battery can sit for in your car... then if they are not affecting it dramatically you can leave them. But absolutely don't trust them and test in a real scenario in your car like seeing how long before the battery is drained. I tested alot with that and now I tell everyone get all the aftermarket stuff off your car... meaning those little electronics. They and are creating a draw on the system that could be much more than you think, I had a two USB charger and that think sucked my Toyota's lead battery down within a few weeks.
I have a really nice charger, an Accucel 6 from Turnigy. But it won't work on your battery because it is a load balancing charger and must connect to an additional multi-pin connector. Why didn't you put a load balancing connector on the battery? I also have a nice Schumacher charger but it's not LiPo specific so out that goes too.
Do you do RC cars and stuff? That is a Charger for those type of RC Batteries... but that is actually NOT a good LIFEPO4 charger. The algorithm for LIFEPO4 (the type of Lithium we use) on that Charger is not acceptable because it is considering you have a old-school battery from the dark ages that Fred Flintstone might use. That is child's play here, the RS-30 has onboard internal Balancing of the Cells so you don't need any external Balancing, but it also has Over-Discharge, Over-Charge and Thermal Protections. So you should get a Lithium Charger... get and Optimate or CTEK version. (Battery Tender and NOCO suck, cheap stuff). But honestly you won't really need it often if ever, but its good to have. They are about $60 dollar for a Maintainer type that would work fine.
Finally. I wanted to velcro it down like my others, but you have a grid bottom. Why? That raises the CG of the battery, makes it taller and therefore harder to fit in tight places. And for what purpose? Why not just a flat bottom? I'd like to grind it off but the warranty is more important.
Well here's the reasons....
1- The grid is actually only just over 5mm and just about 1/4". So it raises the battery only 5mm overall, that won't really effect CG to any degree. It also adds support to the bottom of the case plastic...So it lighter than making thicker plastic on the base of the case.
2- The grid is also there because we make another plastic mount (aside from the Porsche Mount), that makes this battery fit the Group 35 Battery format... its grids interlock with this Tray and then it works for most all the Japanese Cars.. and that tray actually raises it another 3/4" to work with those cars.
3- Keep in mind if you want to be creative you can lay the RS-30 on its side, since it can be installed in any orientation (unlike lead/acid), and save about 1.5 inches in height. IT won't hurt the battery, you will just have to rig something up.
4- I understand the Velcro Mounting... we used to supply Velcro with our Smaller Batteries. But on a Passenger Car I suggest something more robust. You can use some Nylon Tie down type straps, but you want something because a car doesn't have Battery holddowns just to keep a battery from jumping around. They have them to restrain them from becoming projectiles also. For example in a 60 MPH accident a Lead/Acid battery not held down properly will fly out the front of the car and do some serious damage. Now an 11 pound battery is much less weight, but as Myth Busters showed a Kleenex box will become a projectile at 60MPH. So make sure its held in place with something more than Velcro.
WHY DID YOU LET YOUR GT3RS SIT FOR 8 WEEKS WITHOUT DRIVING IT!!!!!!!!! That is a sin!
Well that's another story and I myself consider it as a sin also. But the facts are we are super busy and each time I wanted to sign up for a track day we are at some tradeshow or I'm traveling. We are at SEMA, next week , and then go to PRI in Indy a few weeks later, then we do IMSA Races, and did the Porsche Reunion a few weeks ago in Laguna. The one saving grace is I live in a place called Ojai, and I have some great driving roads. But then again driving on the street is still not even scratching the surface of what the Car does, so that is sort of lame also. So I wash it... woo-pee.
With my previous battery, at 6.8lbs and much smaller footprint, the heavy duty velcro made it nearly impossible to remove. They used velcro on the Space Shuttle's heat shields, so it can certainly be strong enough. It's not really feasible to lay the battery you make sideways, because it has an oversized cap. My guess is that you designed it to look like a normal battery and added that on just for looks. I'd also guess you wanted the battery to be around the size of a regular battery so it fits more easily in a stock tray. I'd guess it could have been made smaller. Marketing is important though, and resembling what customer's are used to helps overcome some resistance.
My USB charger is probably the culprit, though there was still some parasitic draw before I installed that. I'll be adding a wireless phone charger soon. Probably more draw. Seems like a physical cut-off switch is my best answer if I don't want to be always opening the hood. Time to just cut that hole in the hood. Screw resale value. (Using your restart function would mean having to jump the car to open the hood - not a solution for regular use since I park it outside).
Thanks for all your comments. Knowledge is power. Unless you're DJT. Then lying is power.
There’s some odd engineering choices I’ve encountered. The bolt holes for the battery posts are different sizes. Why? Simplify things, eliminate parts and errors. I’m replacing the cheap *** aluminum posts with copper. One
of my post hole inserts was badly gouged when I removed the stock bolt. Not confidence inspiring.
At at your price, you could give us copper bolts and posts and bump the useful output and not notice the $ difference . The battery deserves it.
There’s some odd engineering choices I’ve encountered. The bolt holes for the battery posts are different sizes. Why? Simplify things, eliminate parts and errors. I’m replacing the cheap *** aluminum posts with copper. One
of my post hole inserts was badly gouged when I removed the stock bolt. Not confidence inspiring.
At at your price, you could give us copper bolts and posts and bump the useful output and not notice the $ difference . The battery deserves it.
Hey Dove,
First, I will say you can send the battery back if you're not happy, we stand behind our products 100%. I personally don't like what your trying to do with the battery myself. You're messing it up actually.
Second, your post makes it appear like our product is something inferior with your comments like "cheap-*** aluminum", and "odd engineering choices". Yet you're way off base, which I will explain below. We are the battery makers and doing it correctly. I understand you want it to fit YOUR application but it is designed to be a Automotive battery that has the required Amp Hours, and build quality to fit that application. IT is NOT a Powersport Battery that you velcro to fit your car. We have other batteries for that application. That has nothing to do with Marketing. This is the absolute best of its kind and you're knocking the price when we give a price that is hundreds cheaper than the nearest competitor, and we have the full on board protections the other's lack.
So, let me explain the actual facts.
1- Regarding your comment about "Cheap *** Aluminum" and saying we should have given you "Copper posts bolts and bump the useful output". The facts are Aluminum is about 50% lighter then Copper, and Copper is way too soft a material to use for terminals. So the Aluminum is PERFECT for this application.
2-Then you took a beautifully CNC'd piece of Aluminum that we mount as the Negative Terminal and utterly hacked on your "BRASS" TERMINAL using a Phillips head screw... that is going to vibrate out most likely after a few months.... Additionally, the fact is the Terminal you put on is Brass an NOT Copper. Therefore you REDUCED the Conductivity of our Aluminum Terminal, you would have been better staying with Aluminum, but Brass is perfectly fine... any loss in Conductivity would never be noticed since the battery is so powerful. I only bring this up because you were WRONG in your stating that we should give a COPPER Terminal and Bolts and acting as if we were cheaping out .
And finally see that Blue Arrow on the picture of ours... that is a shoulder to keep your Battery Clamp on your Porsche from bottoming out on the plastic of the case... this little ledge holds the Clamp above the plastic so you can't have that Clamp hitting the plastic of the battery case which happens in some cars, and this makes sure you get a good bite from the clamps you connect. But since you replaced our Terminal now you may have that problem.
3- About your idea of "ODD ENGINEERING" comment because we didn't make the Terminal Bolt holes the same size.... That is INTENTIONAL so a USER who is messing with our battery can't "accidentally" switch their Terminals! Because if they switch the terminals and don't realize it , they could mis-connect the battery and short circuit the car accidentally... and of course then blame us. So instead of being "ODD ENGINEERING" it's BRILLIANTLY thoughtful Engineering.
Anyway your bumming me out because you are doing things that DON"T make the RS-30 better, you're actually making it worse, yet you're bashing it for the well thought out aspects of the battery. I just don't feel your set up is going to be good overall, and then you'll come on here and make it seem like the battery was at fault, when you're making your own terminals and Trays and claiming you cant mount it with Velcro.... This is a battery that is meant to be installed and used as we provide it, and when used in that way will fit in your car with 15 minutes of installation. IF you leave it the way we provide it, it works fine and we've sold many to Porsche guys and everyone is very happy with it and aren't changing terminals and stuff.
Regards,
scott-
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Last edited by Antigravity; 11-12-2018 at 11:14 AM.
Reason: spelling correction
10-23-2018, 03:03 AM
. That is child's play here, the RS-30 has onboard internal Balancing of the Cells so you don't need any external Balancing, but it also has Over-Discharge, Over-Charge and Thermal Protections. So you should get a Lithium Charger... get and Optimate or CTEK version. (Battery Tender and NOCO suck, cheap stuff). But honestly you won't really need it often if ever, but its good to have. They are about $60 dollar for a Maintainer type that would work fine.
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