2016 Spyder on BAT
10-02-2018, 07:16 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
It's crazy that averaging 5,666 miles/year is considered excessive, but that's the real world in which we live when it comes to Porsches specifically and collector cars in general. Just so many garage queens that never see the light of day. No way for even a sparingly used car to compete mileage-wise when obsessively non-driven examples are in abundance, if not the norm.
10-02-2018, 07:31 PM
#32
Banned
It's crazy that averaging 5,666 miles/year is considered excessive, but that's the real world in which we live when it comes to Porsches specifically and collector cars in general. Just so many garage queens that never see the light of day. No way for even a sparingly used car to compete mileage-wise when obsessively non-driven examples are in abundance, if not the norm.
If someone uses such a car for commuting, stuck in traffic, or for some other utilitarian purpose while putting many miles on it, that doesn't mean that he's "using" it or "enjoying" it more than someone who uses it as described above.
And mileage depreciation is strongly non-linear. The first 10k miles cost much more than the second, which cost more than the third, etc. A 1k mile car driven to 10k miles will depreciate much more %-wise than a 30k mile car driven to 40k miles.
10-02-2018, 08:15 PM
#33
Yeah, I agree this wasn't great for the seller.
Assuming auction value is $80,000 though, and original MSRP is $91,000 (actually quite surprised he paid over sticker, many of these cars sat unsold at MSRP initially) -- that's not terrible for what is essentially almost 3 years of ownership. ~12% depreciation at auction value, high mileage for the class of buyers, not too much warranty left, no CPO.
Not much room though for a dealer.
Assuming auction value is $80,000 though, and original MSRP is $91,000 (actually quite surprised he paid over sticker, many of these cars sat unsold at MSRP initially) -- that's not terrible for what is essentially almost 3 years of ownership. ~12% depreciation at auction value, high mileage for the class of buyers, not too much warranty left, no CPO.
Not much room though for a dealer.
10-02-2018, 08:17 PM
#34
A purist car that's specifically designed for back-roads and is truly engaging (light, low, loud, and stiff) is not meant to be enjoyed for more than 2-3k miles a year. In the north-east where the driving season lasts 6 months, 2k miles/yr amounts to 40 1hr back-road joyrides per season, or 2 per week. If you put 2k miles/yr on two such cars, that's 4 1hr joyrides per week. That's a lot of joyrides even for someone who's retired and has nothing better to do with their time.
If someone uses such a car for commuting, stuck in traffic, or for some other utilitarian purpose while putting many miles on it, that doesn't mean that he's "using" it or "enjoying" it more than someone who uses it as described above.
And mileage depreciation is strongly non-linear. The first 10k miles cost much more than the second, which cost more than the third, etc. A 1k mile car driven to 10k miles will depreciate much more %-wise than a 30k mile car driven to 40k miles.
If someone uses such a car for commuting, stuck in traffic, or for some other utilitarian purpose while putting many miles on it, that doesn't mean that he's "using" it or "enjoying" it more than someone who uses it as described above.
And mileage depreciation is strongly non-linear. The first 10k miles cost much more than the second, which cost more than the third, etc. A 1k mile car driven to 10k miles will depreciate much more %-wise than a 30k mile car driven to 40k miles.
10-02-2018, 08:59 PM
#35
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I guess it's how you define "well sold." Recall this seller paid $103, it sold for $76, so he got back $27 less than what he paid. He thus took a 26% hit according to my trusty TI slide rule calculator on a car which, other than lacking LWBs, is not a horrible build and has been holding its value better than most. Not sure I would be feeling too cheery if I was the seller.
And then look at it this way: We've seen 987 Spyders sell in the high 60's right? This car brought less than $6-7K over a nicely equipped 987 Spyder. Again, if I'm the seller, this wouldn't leave me jumping for joy. With all due respect to our 987 Spyder friends, I think most would agree that there is -- or should be -- more than a $7K price spread between a 3-year old 981 Spyder and a 6-7 year old 987, and yet that wasn't the case here.
Yeah, I'm feeling a little battered and bruised if I'm the seller. He definitely paid the price (literally) for agreeing to be charged over sticker and having the audacity to drive the car on average 5,666 miles/year -- for shame!! -- so you can always say he brought it on himself I suppose.
It's crazy that averaging 5,666 miles/year is considered excessive, but that's the real world in which we live when it comes to Porsches specifically and collector cars in general. Just so many garage queens that never see the light of day. No way for even a sparingly used car to compete mileage-wise when obsessively non-driven examples are in abundance, if not the norm.
And then look at it this way: We've seen 987 Spyders sell in the high 60's right? This car brought less than $6-7K over a nicely equipped 987 Spyder. Again, if I'm the seller, this wouldn't leave me jumping for joy. With all due respect to our 987 Spyder friends, I think most would agree that there is -- or should be -- more than a $7K price spread between a 3-year old 981 Spyder and a 6-7 year old 987, and yet that wasn't the case here.
Yeah, I'm feeling a little battered and bruised if I'm the seller. He definitely paid the price (literally) for agreeing to be charged over sticker and having the audacity to drive the car on average 5,666 miles/year -- for shame!! -- so you can always say he brought it on himself I suppose.
It's crazy that averaging 5,666 miles/year is considered excessive, but that's the real world in which we live when it comes to Porsches specifically and collector cars in general. Just so many garage queens that never see the light of day. No way for even a sparingly used car to compete mileage-wise when obsessively non-driven examples are in abundance, if not the norm.
As far as mileage remember many of these cars are in the hands of owners that have multiple cars available and they spread their driving time across the cars. Let’s face it, the Spyder is one of the best sunny day fun car so it’s use is generally limited.
10-02-2018, 09:46 PM
#36
Stupid price for that car. Seller should give thanks to the Gods.
10-02-2018, 10:17 PM
#37
Banned
No idea what these dealers are thinking accumulating all these 981 Spyders in inventory going into winter and ahead of the (non-turbo) 718 Spyder announcement. There are 23 listed for sale by Porsche dealers on porscheusa.com. A dealer just bid up and bought this one on BaT to add to another one he has sitting in inventory unsold. It's like the Hunt brothers cornering the silver market. 
From purely driver's (not collector's) perspective, I still think a Boxster S with sport suspension and sport exhaust is the better bargain at half the Spyder's price. I'll take one in yellow.
From purely driver's (not collector's) perspective, I still think a Boxster S with sport suspension and sport exhaust is the better bargain at half the Spyder's price. I'll take one in yellow.
10-03-2018, 03:04 PM
#38
No idea what these dealers are thinking accumulating all these 981 Spyders in inventory going into winter and ahead of the (non-turbo) 718 Spyder announcement. There are 23 listed for sale by Porsche dealers on porscheusa.com. A dealer just bid up and bought this one on BaT to add to another one he has sitting in inventory unsold. It's like the Hunt brothers cornering the silver market.
From purely driver's (not collector's) perspective, I still think a Boxster S with sport suspension and sport exhaust is the better bargain at half the Spyder's price. I'll take one in yellow.
From purely driver's (not collector's) perspective, I still think a Boxster S with sport suspension and sport exhaust is the better bargain at half the Spyder's price. I'll take one in yellow.
I'm also curious as you are to why dealers seem to be loading up on these. Maybe they're expecting an underwhelming 718 launch for the Spyder.
10-03-2018, 03:44 PM
#39
Banned
Both are good cars. I don't like how the regular boxster looks, so would never consider one unless it was the Spyder. I have driven an S with those options back to back as well... do agree it comes close, but not quite there. For many that would equate to a better value. Just isn't for me. I have zero cares about collectibility. Overall, willing to pay the delta.
10-03-2018, 03:51 PM
#40
Race Car
Agree - very blue hue to it in sunlight. That's why I paid for GT Silver - it's just a very pure, beautiful silver. Especially nice on the 981.
10-04-2018, 02:35 AM
#41
I get that. The Turbo steering rack and the extra HP must make a difference. One issue I have with the Spyder is the manual roof. Heated seats are also somewhat important (for crisp spring/fall mornings with the top down) which erases Spyder's LWB advantage vs the S. In terms of looks, I find the simpler, cleaner lines of the S equally attractive. I'll be traveling in the next month or so which means my driving season is over. Looking forward to an interesting winter shopping for an S or Spyder. It may come down to whichever comes first with enticing color, specs and a deal.
10-04-2018, 12:23 PM
#42
Banned
Yeah, I think they do. At least to me. I'm sure the car would still be fun with less power. Top never really bothered me. I do sometimes wish the car had an axle lift. I dislike alcantara though. I like the look, but I do think I would prefer leather with cooled seats -- so hear you there. Can't go wrong either way -- sounds like the S or a GTS is probably a good fit. Haven't looked at value delta between those two though, and if I was buying a GTS I would have deleted the alcantara, at least from the seats, shifter, and steering wheel.
Btw, did the Sport Seats Plus come with both heating AND cooling as options on the S -- or did heating & cooling only work with the standard sport seats?
10-04-2018, 01:15 PM
#43
No idea what these dealers are thinking accumulating all these 981 Spyders in inventory going into winter and ahead of the (non-turbo) 718 Spyder announcement. There are 23 listed for sale by Porsche dealers on porscheusa.com. A dealer just bid up and bought this one on BaT to add to another one he has sitting in inventory unsold. It's like the Hunt brothers cornering the silver market.
From purely driver's (not collector's) perspective, I still think a Boxster S with sport suspension and sport exhaust is the better bargain at half the Spyder's price. I'll take one in yellow.
From purely driver's (not collector's) perspective, I still think a Boxster S with sport suspension and sport exhaust is the better bargain at half the Spyder's price. I'll take one in yellow.
I agree about the alcantara and much prefer the leather for the seat, shifter, and wheel, too. The GTS premium vs S is high especially when compared to low mile, clean 2013/14 CPO S cars. The problem with the S is that the "mini-Spyder" option package of sport suspension, sport exhaust, and heated sport plus seats is VERY rare, which I find somewhat surprising. Where were all these Spyder fans to order these options on their S cars in 2013-15?
Btw, did the Sport Seats Plus come with both heating AND cooling as options on the S -- or did heating & cooling only work with the standard sport seats?
Btw, did the Sport Seats Plus come with both heating AND cooling as options on the S -- or did heating & cooling only work with the standard sport seats?
10-04-2018, 01:28 PM
#44
Banned
Yes, but most seats I've seen in the S with heating & cooling were the Sport Seats (2-way or 18-way), not the Sport Seats Plus (with the larger side bolsters, I think only a $600 option) that came standard in the GTS and the Spyder. The 2-way Sport Seats Plus (heated and cooled) would be ideal, as you save both weight and head-room by avoiding the 18-way seat motors. I've tried them and they fit perfectly.
