718 GTS + $$$ >981 Spyder?
09-18-2018, 11:35 AM
#46
Speaking of 981 gts, I noticed there always are less of them on the market then the spyder/gt4 variant. My guess is that the total production # are actually smaller than spyder/gt4, combined with the 718 going to 4-pot turbo, they hold their value incredibly well as a non GT car.
The issue with the 718 GTS is that they are wayyyyy overpriced, reasonably optioned goes over 100k easily & most people with that kind of budget won't entertain with the idea of a 4-pot.
The issue with the 718 GTS is that they are wayyyyy overpriced, reasonably optioned goes over 100k easily & most people with that kind of budget won't entertain with the idea of a 4-pot.
09-18-2018, 11:54 AM
#47
Instructor
But they aren't overpriced. They are an improvement over the 981 GTS in every aspect and priced similarly. Personal opinion on a 4 vs. 6 cylinder engine doesn't make the price wrong. If the exhaust note determines whether or not a car is priced appropriately then I think the Ford GT should be $50k instead of $500k. That V6 is terrible.
09-18-2018, 12:11 PM
#48
Instructor
09-18-2018, 02:39 PM
#49
Fact check: 2005/2006 Ford GTs with very few miles currently sell at Mecum Auction for about half your price and are equipped with supercharged 5.4L V8s. Bazinga. Your embellishment of facts tarnishes your other statements, especially your claim 982s are an improvement in every aspect over 981s. They aren't. Turbos lag, even Porsches, I own one of those too.
As for the 982, why don't we focus on objective data instead of subjective. Opinions don't count for **** since we all have different ones and the only supporting information is "feel". Objectively the 982 and its turbo lag still has a better torque curve, higher peak torque, and more peak horsepower. The chassis and suspension have been improved. The interior and various features have received updates. Everything about the car, objectively, is better. It's faster and better handling. Minor things like infotainment have been updated to support newer technology in phones and devices. The only things to argue over are the exhaust note and the styling / appearance. Those are opinions. Yours matters no more or less than mine, but they are equally useless in arguing over the price of a car.
09-18-2018, 02:49 PM
#50
Who embellished any facts? My point was that opinions differ, and if someone thinks the exhaust note of an H4T is enough reason for the 718 GTS to be overpriced at $90k, then there is no way in hell the exhaust note of a V6TT justifies the $500k price tag of the current Ford GT. Nowhere did I mention the older V8 Ford GT, which I believe had an MSRP of $175k. I suppose that's further justification that the current GT is overpriced. The better looking, better sounding version has appreciated in value and is still cheaper.
As for the 982, why don't we focus on objective data instead of subjective. Opinions don't count for **** since we all have different ones and the only supporting information is "feel". Objectively the 982 and its turbo lag still has a better torque curve, higher peak torque, and more peak horsepower. The chassis and suspension have been improved. The interior and various features have received updates. Everything about the car, objectively, is better. It's faster and better handling. Minor things like infotainment have been updated to support newer technology in phones and devices. The only things to argue over are the exhaust note and the styling / appearance. Those are opinions. Yours matters no more or less than mine, but they are equally useless in arguing over the price of a car.
As for the 982, why don't we focus on objective data instead of subjective. Opinions don't count for **** since we all have different ones and the only supporting information is "feel". Objectively the 982 and its turbo lag still has a better torque curve, higher peak torque, and more peak horsepower. The chassis and suspension have been improved. The interior and various features have received updates. Everything about the car, objectively, is better. It's faster and better handling. Minor things like infotainment have been updated to support newer technology in phones and devices. The only things to argue over are the exhaust note and the styling / appearance. Those are opinions. Yours matters no more or less than mine, but they are equally useless in arguing over the price of a car.
09-18-2018, 03:43 PM
#52
Three Wheelin'
But they aren't overpriced. They are an improvement over the 981 GTS in every aspect and priced similarly. Personal opinion on a 4 vs. 6 cylinder engine doesn't make the price wrong. If the exhaust note determines whether or not a car is priced appropriately then I think the Ford GT should be $50k instead of $500k. That V6 is terrible.
09-18-2018, 11:37 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
11-17-2018, 01:46 PM
#54
I’m considering this type of trade
as a 718BS owner, I have to say this car is fast and fun. Definitely a looker. It sounds not bad but not as good as it looks. Since i really cannot use all that speed on the street, I’d trade speed for sound.
I would love a spyder but as I use my cars daily, a 981BGTS would be a better option for me. If i found a nice one, I’d consider a trade for sure.
I would love a spyder but as I use my cars daily, a 981BGTS would be a better option for me. If i found a nice one, I’d consider a trade for sure.
11-19-2018, 12:18 AM
#55
Three Wheelin'
This is an entertaining thread. Lots to digest here.
My first thought on your original post (before this thread devolved), was that you were kidding yourself if you thought you'd get a dealer to give you cash back on a trade when a 718 GTS can easily be specced at an MSRP around what most 981 Spyders' asking prices are (~$95-105k). But you seem to have your answer going off this post. What I'm still wondering though is if it's a formal offer, or just in your head? Did a dealer offer you cash back on a trade? I know they want these cars, but that just seems like a stretch for a dealer. I'm not saying I'd doubt if it were true, but I'd be surprised. I'm still trying to figure out how these dealers operate, and Porsche seems to be an exception to many rules.
That said, there was a Spyder at a local dealer that hung out for MONTHS with an asking price north of $100k. It might still be there. They seem to move 718s pretty well though.
This may have been a decent comment out of context, but it came off as ultra douchey after the "farting homely girl" thread earlier. Definitely in line with what I'd expect to see on a Camaro forum.
Someone posted numbers a couple months ago confirming that the GTS models are significantly more scarce than the Spyder/GT4 variants. If I recall correctly, it was around 3:1.
Also it's tough to calculate what the 718 GTS should actually cost, because it's kind of alone in the market. What are its rivals? Audi TTRS? Corvette? McLaren? That Alpine thing with the pizza dishes for wheels? You can't really get the same experience in a new car- so its only real rivals are the older models.
This is my take, I'm open to discussion here. Honestly, what SHOULD it be priced?
I think the fact that it's a 4 cylinder is only argued on this forum. I don't think most buyers care unless they're coming from an older model.
Nobody was talking about the v8 GTs. And once again, there is no valid argument; the 718 is better in EVERY MEASURABLE CATEGORY.
Lag (as relevant to this discussion) is not a measurable category. It's another one of those subjective things people like to talk about to confirm their biases.
I don't have anything to say other than this is an excellent post.
This also is an excellent post. I'm not sure which is better.
At the end of the day, this captures the essence of the thread and is probably the best take. Coming from a 718 owner, he'd likely trade for a 981. That's kind of where I'm at. I like the 718, but I own a 981- and it's not going anywhere.
My first thought on your original post (before this thread devolved), was that you were kidding yourself if you thought you'd get a dealer to give you cash back on a trade when a 718 GTS can easily be specced at an MSRP around what most 981 Spyders' asking prices are (~$95-105k). But you seem to have your answer going off this post. What I'm still wondering though is if it's a formal offer, or just in your head? Did a dealer offer you cash back on a trade? I know they want these cars, but that just seems like a stretch for a dealer. I'm not saying I'd doubt if it were true, but I'd be surprised. I'm still trying to figure out how these dealers operate, and Porsche seems to be an exception to many rules.
That said, there was a Spyder at a local dealer that hung out for MONTHS with an asking price north of $100k. It might still be there. They seem to move 718s pretty well though.
Speaking of 981 gts, I noticed there always are less of them on the market then the spyder/gt4 variant. My guess is that the total production # are actually smaller than spyder/gt4, combined with the 718 going to 4-pot turbo, they hold their value incredibly well as a non GT car.
The issue with the 718 GTS is that they are wayyyyy overpriced, reasonably optioned goes over 100k easily & most people with that kind of budget won't entertain with the idea of a 4-pot.
The issue with the 718 GTS is that they are wayyyyy overpriced, reasonably optioned goes over 100k easily & most people with that kind of budget won't entertain with the idea of a 4-pot.
Also it's tough to calculate what the 718 GTS should actually cost, because it's kind of alone in the market. What are its rivals? Audi TTRS? Corvette? McLaren? That Alpine thing with the pizza dishes for wheels? You can't really get the same experience in a new car- so its only real rivals are the older models.
This is my take, I'm open to discussion here. Honestly, what SHOULD it be priced?
I think the fact that it's a 4 cylinder is only argued on this forum. I don't think most buyers care unless they're coming from an older model.
Fact check: 2005/2006 Ford GTs with very few miles currently sell at Mecum Auction for about half your price and are equipped with supercharged 5.4L V8s. Bazinga. Your embellishment of facts tarnishes your other statements, especially your claim 982s are an improvement in every aspect over 981s. They aren't. Turbos lag, even Porsches, I own one of those too.
Lag (as relevant to this discussion) is not a measurable category. It's another one of those subjective things people like to talk about to confirm their biases.
Who embellished any facts? My point was that opinions differ, and if someone thinks the exhaust note of an H4T is enough reason for the 718 GTS to be overpriced at $90k, then there is no way in hell the exhaust note of a V6TT justifies the $500k price tag of the current Ford GT. Nowhere did I mention the older V8 Ford GT, which I believe had an MSRP of $175k. I suppose that's further justification that the current GT is overpriced. The better looking, better sounding version has appreciated in value and is still cheaper.
As for the 982, why don't we focus on objective data instead of subjective. Opinions don't count for **** since we all have different ones and the only supporting information is "feel". Objectively the 982 and its turbo lag still has a better torque curve, higher peak torque, and more peak horsepower. The chassis and suspension have been improved. The interior and various features have received updates. Everything about the car, objectively, is better. It's faster and better handling. Minor things like infotainment have been updated to support newer technology in phones and devices. The only things to argue over are the exhaust note and the styling / appearance. Those are opinions. Yours matters no more or less than mine, but they are equally useless in arguing over the price of a car.
As for the 982, why don't we focus on objective data instead of subjective. Opinions don't count for **** since we all have different ones and the only supporting information is "feel". Objectively the 982 and its turbo lag still has a better torque curve, higher peak torque, and more peak horsepower. The chassis and suspension have been improved. The interior and various features have received updates. Everything about the car, objectively, is better. It's faster and better handling. Minor things like infotainment have been updated to support newer technology in phones and devices. The only things to argue over are the exhaust note and the styling / appearance. Those are opinions. Yours matters no more or less than mine, but they are equally useless in arguing over the price of a car.
as a 718BS owner, I have to say this car is fast and fun. Definitely a looker. It sounds not bad but not as good as it looks. Since i really cannot use all that speed on the street, I’d trade speed for sound.
I would love a spyder but as I use my cars daily, a 981BGTS would be a better option for me. If i found a nice one, I’d consider a trade for sure.
I would love a spyder but as I use my cars daily, a 981BGTS would be a better option for me. If i found a nice one, I’d consider a trade for sure.
11-19-2018, 08:33 AM
#56
Rennlist Member
What's that? Nobody cares?
Huh. All that MEASURABLE stuff must not be as important as (some) people make it out to be. Go figure...
11-19-2018, 09:00 AM
#57
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Measurable stuff doesn’t matter much to me when it comes to a fun to drive street car. To expand on your analogy, I’d choose a Miata over a Camaro any day, despite the fact that the Miata had much inferior numbers. If I were to choose a heavy muscle car as my fun street toy, it would likely be the Mustang GT350 because of the music from that sweet engine.
11-19-2018, 09:23 AM
#58
First off, I am "not a fan" of the phrase "not a fan"...
Second, I am keeping my spyder and I wouldn't trade it for any other car except maybe an RSR and money for an interior and turn signals.
Second, I am keeping my spyder and I wouldn't trade it for any other car except maybe an RSR and money for an interior and turn signals.
11-19-2018, 10:09 AM
#59
Three Wheelin'
I'm going to make an assumption that you are fully aware that not many would cross shop a Camaro (ZL1, Z28, or otherwise) and a Cayman/Boxster. I say almost because the used car market for performance cars would include them both- and I actually like both cars but obviously have made my choice on which I prefer. But outside of weird enthusiast fringe cases, I think they're totally different buyers, and totally different cars.
If you wanted to bring up the Corvette then that's a viable statement, and a legitimate competitor. Performance-wise, a base Vette stands toe to toe with a Spyder or a 718 GTS, and you'd save $30k on top of it.
So by your logic, why don't we all just go get Corvettes?
Also; what point exactly are you arguing? I think we actually are in agreement overall about the 718 vs 981 debate but you probably didn't read past the point in my post you disagreed with.
11-19-2018, 07:09 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
The Camaro is interesting because for decades, GM held back the performance and options available in the F-bodies to protect the Corvette from competition. There was never a time when they couldn't have given the Camaro the same performance options as the 'Vette, they just didn't want to. Now that the performance numbers are finally on par with each other, gee, it turns out people still buy Corvettes for some reason. It must not be all about the numbers after all.