Help me Decide?! (another Cayman buying thread)
06-15-2018, 03:17 PM
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Help me Decide?! (another Cayman buying thread)
UPDATE: This thread has now morphed into a "which 981 should I buy" discussion — see post #11 for current options...
I'm a former 964 and 911 owner and longtime rennlist (sold my 964 "on" Rennlist when it was an actual email list) who is now in the market for a Cayman. I'm looking at base cars and they MUST be MT; options don't matter all that much to me. I'm looking at 987.1, 987.2 and 981 cars.
I've over-researched all the details of the cars, so I know all the differences between the 987.1 and the 987.2, and I've driven all 3 cars multiple times. And I would NOT buy a car without a PPI.
That said, my question is about how to value the market on the 987.1 and 987.2 cars. (The 981 cars are MUCH easier to evaluate because there are SO many more out there). I'm looking at:
1. a 40k mile very low-option 987.1 car. Seems to be mechanically sound and is a no accident car, but the exterior paintwork has a LOT of little scratches, swirls, and paint chips. The interior also has a lot of plastic flaking off. It does NOT look like a typical car listed on rennlist, but I think it's mainly just cosmetic
2. a 75k mile 987.2 car, also low options. Seems sound overall, but at 75k mile is starting to get to that point where it's hard to sell if you have to sell again
3. third option is a 981 car, probably around 15k to 30k miles, and prices are about $36k to $40k
I'm having a hard time figuring out what would be good prices for 1 and 2?
I'm a former 964 and 911 owner and longtime rennlist (sold my 964 "on" Rennlist when it was an actual email list) who is now in the market for a Cayman. I'm looking at base cars and they MUST be MT; options don't matter all that much to me. I'm looking at 987.1, 987.2 and 981 cars.
I've over-researched all the details of the cars, so I know all the differences between the 987.1 and the 987.2, and I've driven all 3 cars multiple times. And I would NOT buy a car without a PPI.
That said, my question is about how to value the market on the 987.1 and 987.2 cars. (The 981 cars are MUCH easier to evaluate because there are SO many more out there). I'm looking at:
1. a 40k mile very low-option 987.1 car. Seems to be mechanically sound and is a no accident car, but the exterior paintwork has a LOT of little scratches, swirls, and paint chips. The interior also has a lot of plastic flaking off. It does NOT look like a typical car listed on rennlist, but I think it's mainly just cosmetic
2. a 75k mile 987.2 car, also low options. Seems sound overall, but at 75k mile is starting to get to that point where it's hard to sell if you have to sell again
3. third option is a 981 car, probably around 15k to 30k miles, and prices are about $36k to $40k
I'm having a hard time figuring out what would be good prices for 1 and 2?
Last edited by fronesis47; 06-20-2018 at 01:36 PM.
06-15-2018, 03:50 PM
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Are all the cars coming in at the same price point? If not, why not hold out for a lower mileage 987.2 assuming that is what you want?
A low mileage 987.1 isn’t ideal as most of the issues with the IMS seem to be focused on the lower mileage cars that weren’t driven regularly.
Or just go for a 981 if that’s what you prefer.
A low mileage 987.1 isn’t ideal as most of the issues with the IMS seem to be focused on the lower mileage cars that weren’t driven regularly.
Or just go for a 981 if that’s what you prefer.
06-15-2018, 04:57 PM
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The older cars will depend much more on condition and maintenance history. 987.2's seem to be in the high 20's to low 30's with 5-7000 miles per year. With 75k on a 987.2, I would expect it to be around 25k as long as maintenance is up to date and the tires and brakes are good.
06-17-2018, 01:38 AM
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Thanks all.
To clarify: the 3 cars are all at different price points. My question was about trying to put a fair market value on the low-miles 978.1 and the 75k mile 987.2. The 981 is easy to value because there are lots of them, but the other cars don’t show up much.
I would love to get a lower miles 987.2, but A) those are really hard to find and B) i suspect that they are all around $30k or more.
It seems to me at that point it makes more sense to spend the money in the 981.
I guess the bottom line is that the 987.2 cars seems a bit overpriced to me compared to the 981, but the 981 is obviously more expensive in absolute terms and I’m not quite comfortable spending that much money (not because I don’t have that much money but because it just seems like a lot to spend on a car
To clarify: the 3 cars are all at different price points. My question was about trying to put a fair market value on the low-miles 978.1 and the 75k mile 987.2. The 981 is easy to value because there are lots of them, but the other cars don’t show up much.
I would love to get a lower miles 987.2, but A) those are really hard to find and B) i suspect that they are all around $30k or more.
It seems to me at that point it makes more sense to spend the money in the 981.
I guess the bottom line is that the 987.2 cars seems a bit overpriced to me compared to the 981, but the 981 is obviously more expensive in absolute terms and I’m not quite comfortable spending that much money (not because I don’t have that much money but because it just seems like a lot to spend on a car
06-17-2018, 03:07 AM
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Very few 987.2’s were built as we were coming off the bottom of the recession when they were released so Porsche smartly reduced supply.
With time 987/981 cars will stop being looked at as pricepoint purchases and instead they will be viewed as different driving experiences. Assuming you haven’t driven them I would suggest driving both and then deciding which you prefer then focus on that purchase.
With time 987/981 cars will stop being looked at as pricepoint purchases and instead they will be viewed as different driving experiences. Assuming you haven’t driven them I would suggest driving both and then deciding which you prefer then focus on that purchase.
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06-17-2018, 03:31 AM
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Very few 987.2’s were built as we were coming off the bottom of the recession when they were released so Porsche smartly reduced supply.
With time 987/981 cars will stop being looked at as pricepoint purchases and instead they will be viewed as different driving experiences. Assuming you haven’t driven them I would suggest driving both and then deciding which you prefer then focus on that purchase.
With time 987/981 cars will stop being looked at as pricepoint purchases and instead they will be viewed as different driving experiences. Assuming you haven’t driven them I would suggest driving both and then deciding which you prefer then focus on that purchase.
At any rate, at the moment the 981 cars are also much newer and often with lower miles than the 987, so in addition to the different ways they drive, I feel that there is real value in the 981. I’d love to buy a 50k mike 987.2 for $22k, but no such car exists. And if a 987.2 is going to cost, say $28k, then I think I’d be better off spending $35k on a 981.
I guess I have talked myself into a 981. Now I just have to be willing to pay the extra $5k to $10k to get one.
Last edited by fronesis47; 06-17-2018 at 12:23 PM. Reason: typo on model #
06-17-2018, 04:14 AM
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Lots of knowledgeable owners here so feel free to post questions when you finally find the right car.
Good luck with the search!!
Good luck with the search!!
06-17-2018, 07:35 AM
#10
I "sort of" went through the same search as the thread starter, and I ended up spending more on a 981. I found that the 987.1's that were on the market had a few more miles or a little more wear than I wanted to deal with, especially given the looming worry that I'd run into an expensive IMS fix down the road. Plus, if it were a 987.1, I was only going to get the S model, so that brought the price up to closer to that of a 987.2 base, if not more in some cases. So then I narrowed my search to either a 987.2 or a 981. As you have found, 987.2's are hard to come by. They didn't make many of them, and there aren't many for sale. Plus, like you, I wanted a manual, so those were even harder to find, as most 987.2s I found came with the "new at the time" PDK.
Yes, the 981 is more expensive than the 987.2, but I think it is money well spent. I have always felt the 981 is the most attractive body design of any modern Porsche, including the 911s, and the interior on the 981 is also far better than the 987s. I drove a couple of 987.1S's prior to my 981 and I didn't feel that the electric steering was that much worse than the hydraulic steering. Both are great cars. The fact that I got my 981 with almost 1.5 years of factory warranty left, and with less than 12K miles on the odo meant I was buying almost a new car for used prices. You'll likely be happier if you spend a little more now and get the 981 than if you save a little, get a 987 and then wonder if you should have gotten the 981 instead.
Yes, the 981 is more expensive than the 987.2, but I think it is money well spent. I have always felt the 981 is the most attractive body design of any modern Porsche, including the 911s, and the interior on the 981 is also far better than the 987s. I drove a couple of 987.1S's prior to my 981 and I didn't feel that the electric steering was that much worse than the hydraulic steering. Both are great cars. The fact that I got my 981 with almost 1.5 years of factory warranty left, and with less than 12K miles on the odo meant I was buying almost a new car for used prices. You'll likely be happier if you spend a little more now and get the 981 than if you save a little, get a 987 and then wonder if you should have gotten the 981 instead.
06-20-2018, 01:45 PM
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OK, now I'm looking closely at a few options. It's VERY frustrating that almost ALL of the M/T 981 Caymans are on the east coast. I've seen 3 or 4 cars on the east coast, including through the Porsche car locator in the mid to high 30s, but on the west coast, all those cars are PDK. Here are a couple of options at the moment, all much higher priced than my original budget:
1. https://www.coasttocoastimports.com/...LEeA9U30fwooTg
I know the color will be polarizing. I like it but will everyone else hate it? I like the warranty, low miles, and PTV option.
Has anyone dealt with coast to coast? What would be a good offer?
2. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...or-manual.html
Gorgeous car. The options aren't really of value to me, though, but obviously they are pushing the price up.
3. https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/c...611150202.html
I like the options and obviously the miles. The car was actually put into service very early, so it doesn't have any more warranty than the above cars. I've talked with the seller over email and he seems like a good guy, but seems very firm on price. Perhaps too firm given that he has a loan on the car. He originally listed the car as a "718 Cayman" and then changed it after I emailed him. I assume he was just in a rush? But it did seem really odd.
4. https://www.mikewardmaserati.com/inv...aa2a80gk171525
This car is one reason that I think #3 is priced a bit high for a private sale with a lien on the car.
Again, all of these cars are a good $5-$10k higher than cars I've seen on the east coast. The Richmond Porsche dealer had a 2014 with only 18k mile son it for $37k; it had been CPOd previously so still had 9 months of warranty. But it would have cost me $2,700 to ship it, so I didn't want to move on it. These cars are also more than I'd like to spend, but if I could get one at the right price point, maybe spending a bit more now would be OK in the long run.
I should also note: #2 and #3 are easy for me to get to and drive home. #4 is a bit more complicated, but I have family in Denver so it's do-able. #1 would require shipping.
1. https://www.coasttocoastimports.com/...LEeA9U30fwooTg
I know the color will be polarizing. I like it but will everyone else hate it? I like the warranty, low miles, and PTV option.
Has anyone dealt with coast to coast? What would be a good offer?
2. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...or-manual.html
Gorgeous car. The options aren't really of value to me, though, but obviously they are pushing the price up.
3. https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/c...611150202.html
I like the options and obviously the miles. The car was actually put into service very early, so it doesn't have any more warranty than the above cars. I've talked with the seller over email and he seems like a good guy, but seems very firm on price. Perhaps too firm given that he has a loan on the car. He originally listed the car as a "718 Cayman" and then changed it after I emailed him. I assume he was just in a rush? But it did seem really odd.
4. https://www.mikewardmaserati.com/inv...aa2a80gk171525
This car is one reason that I think #3 is priced a bit high for a private sale with a lien on the car.
Again, all of these cars are a good $5-$10k higher than cars I've seen on the east coast. The Richmond Porsche dealer had a 2014 with only 18k mile son it for $37k; it had been CPOd previously so still had 9 months of warranty. But it would have cost me $2,700 to ship it, so I didn't want to move on it. These cars are also more than I'd like to spend, but if I could get one at the right price point, maybe spending a bit more now would be OK in the long run.
I should also note: #2 and #3 are easy for me to get to and drive home. #4 is a bit more complicated, but I have family in Denver so it's do-able. #1 would require shipping.
Last edited by fronesis47; 06-20-2018 at 02:16 PM.
06-20-2018, 01:53 PM
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OK, now I'm looking closely at a few options. It's VERY frustrating that almost ALL of the M/T 981 Caymans are on the east coast. I've seen 3 or 4 cars on the east coast, including through the Porsche car locator in the mid to high 30s, but on the west coast, all those cars are PDK. Here are a couple of options at the moment, all much higher priced than my original budget:
1. https://www.coasttocoastimports.com/...LEeA9U30fwooTg
I know the color will be polarizing. I like it but will everyone else hate it? I like the warranty, low miles, and PTV option.
Has anyone dealt with coast to coast? What would be a good offer?
2. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...or-manual.html
Gorgeous car. The options aren't really of value to me, though, but obviously they are pushing the price up.
3. https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/c...611150202.html
I like the options and obviously the miles. The car was actually put into service very early, so it doesn't have any more warranty than the above cars. I've talked with the seller over email and he seems like a good guy, but seems very firm on price. Perhaps too firm given that he has a loan on the car. He originally listed the car as a "718 Cayman" and then changed it after I emailed him. I assume he was just in a rush? But it did seem really odd.
4. https://www.mikewardmaserati.com/inv...aa2a80gk171525
This car is one reason that I think #3 is priced a bit high for a private sale with a lien on the car.
Again, all of these cars are a good $5-$10k higher than cars I've seen on the east coast. The Richmond Porsche dealer had a 2014 with only 18k mile son it for $37k; it had been CPOd previously so still had 9 months of warranty. But it would have cost me $2,700 to ship it, so I didn't want to move on it. These cars are also more than I'd like to spend, but if I could get one at the right price point, maybe spending a bit more now would be OK in the long run.
I should also note: #1 and #4 are easy for me to get to and drive home. #3 is a bit more complicated, but I have family in Denver. #2 would require shipping.
1. https://www.coasttocoastimports.com/...LEeA9U30fwooTg
I know the color will be polarizing. I like it but will everyone else hate it? I like the warranty, low miles, and PTV option.
Has anyone dealt with coast to coast? What would be a good offer?
2. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...or-manual.html
Gorgeous car. The options aren't really of value to me, though, but obviously they are pushing the price up.
3. https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/c...611150202.html
I like the options and obviously the miles. The car was actually put into service very early, so it doesn't have any more warranty than the above cars. I've talked with the seller over email and he seems like a good guy, but seems very firm on price. Perhaps too firm given that he has a loan on the car. He originally listed the car as a "718 Cayman" and then changed it after I emailed him. I assume he was just in a rush? But it did seem really odd.
4. https://www.mikewardmaserati.com/inv...aa2a80gk171525
This car is one reason that I think #3 is priced a bit high for a private sale with a lien on the car.
Again, all of these cars are a good $5-$10k higher than cars I've seen on the east coast. The Richmond Porsche dealer had a 2014 with only 18k mile son it for $37k; it had been CPOd previously so still had 9 months of warranty. But it would have cost me $2,700 to ship it, so I didn't want to move on it. These cars are also more than I'd like to spend, but if I could get one at the right price point, maybe spending a bit more now would be OK in the long run.
I should also note: #1 and #4 are easy for me to get to and drive home. #3 is a bit more complicated, but I have family in Denver. #2 would require shipping.
06-20-2018, 05:46 PM
#13
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#1 if the performance options are important to you and if you like the color. No other cars on your list have PASM or PTV. The Bose stereo is nice, too since the stock stereo is crap. The light grey dash may make too much reflection on the windshield which can be disturbing.
#2 The prettiest by far. I dig the full leather interior. That's on my short list of upgrades. I'm curious why the owner is selling it after only a year.
#2 The prettiest by far. I dig the full leather interior. That's on my short list of upgrades. I'm curious why the owner is selling it after only a year.
06-20-2018, 06:00 PM
#14
I think you are on the right track with the vehicles that you have linked. I will say this, as someone who was shopping for a base 981 Cayman with a manual transmission, you should definitely decide what options you really want, down to the wheels, and buy a car that has most if not all of those options already installed. If this is a vehicle you plan on keeping for a while, the difference between 5000 miles and 25000 miles is going to become less important years down the road whenever you plan to sell.
As a general rule, many of the options just do not retain their market value over time like the car itself will, so don't be shy about holding out for a car with the options you want. And, if there are certain options you are planning on adding back on yourself you will pay a lot more trying to do it that way. I bought my car without PSE, without the wheels that I wanted, without the X73 suspension and without the exhaust tip that I wanted. Adding all of those things back on (except the suspension, which I'm still looking to do) was more expensive than if I had just waited to find a car already equipped with those things the first go-round. My car is set up the way I want now (again, minus the suspension), but I have spent more on putting those things on the car than I really wanted to. Lesson learned.
Of the cars you linked above, I really am liking the exterior of #2, but would probably choose number 3 for the overall package and just try to talk him down on the price a little bit.
As a general rule, many of the options just do not retain their market value over time like the car itself will, so don't be shy about holding out for a car with the options you want. And, if there are certain options you are planning on adding back on yourself you will pay a lot more trying to do it that way. I bought my car without PSE, without the wheels that I wanted, without the X73 suspension and without the exhaust tip that I wanted. Adding all of those things back on (except the suspension, which I'm still looking to do) was more expensive than if I had just waited to find a car already equipped with those things the first go-round. My car is set up the way I want now (again, minus the suspension), but I have spent more on putting those things on the car than I really wanted to. Lesson learned.
Of the cars you linked above, I really am liking the exterior of #2, but would probably choose number 3 for the overall package and just try to talk him down on the price a little bit.
Last edited by vbb; 06-20-2018 at 06:16 PM.
06-20-2018, 08:16 PM
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Lien is irrelevant, other than the cost you put on it for your time dealing with the bank.
Yes a private seller is less than a dealer and 3 & 4 are about the same. Yes 3 is higher than the dealer. but, will it cost less for you to buy that one? I paid a premium six years ago for my M roadster. It was 30 miles from me. The next nearest that looked good in pictures was a plane ride away.
I put a premium on the low mileage. Easier to sell down the line.
Yes a private seller is less than a dealer and 3 & 4 are about the same. Yes 3 is higher than the dealer. but, will it cost less for you to buy that one? I paid a premium six years ago for my M roadster. It was 30 miles from me. The next nearest that looked good in pictures was a plane ride away.
I put a premium on the low mileage. Easier to sell down the line.