New BMW Z4 M40i - Serious Boxster Challenger?
06-09-2018, 10:45 AM
#31
Three Wheelin'
It’s a great day. Difference of opinion. Re-read your posts. You are making my ‘argument’ for me. Exceptionally good enthusiast cars — and you point to the M2 — one model. ALL BMWs used to be enthusiast cars - handling, performance, etc. No longer. Even Lexus can build an enthusiast car every once in a while.
Yeah I'm wasting my time, and yours. This is going nowhere.
06-09-2018, 01:07 PM
#32
I think you’re oversimplifying. It’s not just that they don’t make hard core enthusiast cars anymore. They don’t really make much of anything interesting at all anymore. BMW was once a really cool motoring company that made a variety of types of really cool cars. Now they just seem to make bloated glitzy luxury cars for the most part, with a wacky hodge podge lineup of cars. I can’t think of another car company that changed their DNA, and their customer base, so radically as BMW has in the last couple of decades.
06-09-2018, 11:42 PM
#33
Drifting
Difference of opinion for sure, because I think you're making my point. The days where everything BMW makes is an enthusiast car are long gone, I've conceded that point and asked those who are offended by it to get past it. It's not practical to do that anymore because there's not enough demand for it. To prove it, name one brand that actually does that today, besides Porsche. I've already said that Mazda is there, but you probably couldn't be paid to drive one of those either... and nothing Mazda makes comes close to an M2.
Yeah I'm wasting my time, and yours. This is going nowhere.
Yeah I'm wasting my time, and yours. This is going nowhere.
Mazda is excellent, btw. Have owned a couple and would own again.
I think you’re oversimplifying. It’s not just that they don’t make hard core enthusiast cars anymore. They don’t really make much of anything interesting at all anymore. BMW was once a really cool motoring company that made a variety of types of really cool cars. Now they just seem to make bloated glitzy luxury cars for the most part, with a wacky hodge podge lineup of cars. I can’t think of another car company that changed their DNA, and their customer base, so radically as BMW has in the last couple of decades.
06-11-2018, 12:18 PM
#34
Three Wheelin'
I think we all agree to an extent... but you guys still haven't driven the M2, have you?
I think at the end of the day, that's the only point I'm trying to make. I was on a downward trend for BMW myself, until I drove that car. They made up for a lot with it, and if I could convince my wife to like how it looks I'd own one (there's also the problem of not having the money or enough garage space because I'm not getting rid of the Boxster but that's besides the point, isn't it?).
I love the M4 too but realize not everyone does... and at the end of the day I don't own it anymore so that speaks volumes too. I personally would never own an M5, and actually despise the M6 for the most part so I think there is a lot of common ground here. But seriously, I am genuinely curious to see if the M2 would have the same nulling effect of the rest of the mistakes BMW has made for hardcore guys like you two.
I think at the end of the day, that's the only point I'm trying to make. I was on a downward trend for BMW myself, until I drove that car. They made up for a lot with it, and if I could convince my wife to like how it looks I'd own one (there's also the problem of not having the money or enough garage space because I'm not getting rid of the Boxster but that's besides the point, isn't it?).
I love the M4 too but realize not everyone does... and at the end of the day I don't own it anymore so that speaks volumes too. I personally would never own an M5, and actually despise the M6 for the most part so I think there is a lot of common ground here. But seriously, I am genuinely curious to see if the M2 would have the same nulling effect of the rest of the mistakes BMW has made for hardcore guys like you two.
06-11-2018, 10:27 PM
#35
Drifting
I think we all agree to an extent... but you guys still haven't driven the M2, have you?
I think at the end of the day, that's the only point I'm trying to make. I was on a downward trend for BMW myself, until I drove that car. They made up for a lot with it, and if I could convince my wife to like how it looks I'd own one (there's also the problem of not having the money or enough garage space because I'm not getting rid of the Boxster but that's besides the point, isn't it?).
I love the M4 too but realize not everyone does... and at the end of the day I don't own it anymore so that speaks volumes too. I personally would never own an M5, and actually despise the M6 for the most part so I think there is a lot of common ground here. But seriously, I am genuinely curious to see if the M2 would have the same nulling effect of the rest of the mistakes BMW has made for hardcore guys like you two.
I think at the end of the day, that's the only point I'm trying to make. I was on a downward trend for BMW myself, until I drove that car. They made up for a lot with it, and if I could convince my wife to like how it looks I'd own one (there's also the problem of not having the money or enough garage space because I'm not getting rid of the Boxster but that's besides the point, isn't it?).
I love the M4 too but realize not everyone does... and at the end of the day I don't own it anymore so that speaks volumes too. I personally would never own an M5, and actually despise the M6 for the most part so I think there is a lot of common ground here. But seriously, I am genuinely curious to see if the M2 would have the same nulling effect of the rest of the mistakes BMW has made for hardcore guys like you two.
06-12-2018, 02:11 AM
#36
I have not driven an M2, but I’ve walked around one, read and watched a lot of the reviews and looked at the lap times. The totality of that is meh. It turns lap times similar to a 981 Cayman S or a Macan Turbo. It looks like a Lexus. It’s not bad but BMW used to be so much more relative to the competition.
06-12-2018, 07:42 AM
#37
Three Wheelin'
Fair points, makes more sense. I get a little passionate about BMW too; I think most people on here who "upgraded" from BMWs will have their own strong opinions on the matter. I felt like I had a strong history of BMWs but one thing I'll concede is that the closest thing I've had to the "true soul" of what BMW represented in their prime was my E36 M3... and yeah that car was very different from the 335i and M4 I had. It was much more of a sports car. Even the E83 X3 was far more sporty than the cookie-cutter SUVs they're putting out now, so I think I've found some common ground here.
But to finalize my point on the M2... it's something I think that has to be experienced. Full disclosure, I got to spend plenty of time in the M2 putting it around the track in a variety of situations at the BMW Performance Center, so I've seen the best it has to offer. I've never driven a car quite like it; it seemed to blend old-school and new-school in a really great way. I agree it's not the best looking machine on the road, but it took everything I liked about my M4 (comfort, refinement, confidence-inspiring driving dynamics) and E36 (smaller dimensions, "tossability" to use a cliche term that's still accurate, and even steering feel and noise to an extent). I honestly started considering trading in my M4 almost instantly. Even Jeremy Clarkson seemed to love it so I just highly encourage you guys to give it a try, if only to experience a great driver's car. I wouldn't worry too much about lap times; it's not really built for that, to its credit. It's built to drive. It's just a really great car and gives me hope that BMW's "still got it".
But to finalize my point on the M2... it's something I think that has to be experienced. Full disclosure, I got to spend plenty of time in the M2 putting it around the track in a variety of situations at the BMW Performance Center, so I've seen the best it has to offer. I've never driven a car quite like it; it seemed to blend old-school and new-school in a really great way. I agree it's not the best looking machine on the road, but it took everything I liked about my M4 (comfort, refinement, confidence-inspiring driving dynamics) and E36 (smaller dimensions, "tossability" to use a cliche term that's still accurate, and even steering feel and noise to an extent). I honestly started considering trading in my M4 almost instantly. Even Jeremy Clarkson seemed to love it so I just highly encourage you guys to give it a try, if only to experience a great driver's car. I wouldn't worry too much about lap times; it's not really built for that, to its credit. It's built to drive. It's just a really great car and gives me hope that BMW's "still got it".
06-12-2018, 09:05 AM
#38
Drifting
Fair points, makes more sense. I get a little passionate about BMW too; I think most people on here who "upgraded" from BMWs will have their own strong opinions on the matter. I felt like I had a strong history of BMWs but one thing I'll concede is that the closest thing I've had to the "true soul" of what BMW represented in their prime was my E36 M3... and yeah that car was very different from the 335i and M4 I had. It was much more of a sports car. Even the E83 X3 was far more sporty than the cookie-cutter SUVs they're putting out now, so I think I've found some common ground here.
But to finalize my point on the M2... it's something I think that has to be experienced. Full disclosure, I got to spend plenty of time in the M2 putting it around the track in a variety of situations at the BMW Performance Center, so I've seen the best it has to offer. I've never driven a car quite like it; it seemed to blend old-school and new-school in a really great way. I agree it's not the best looking machine on the road, but it took everything I liked about my M4 (comfort, refinement, confidence-inspiring driving dynamics) and E36 (smaller dimensions, "tossability" to use a cliche term that's still accurate, and even steering feel and noise to an extent). I honestly started considering trading in my M4 almost instantly. Even Jeremy Clarkson seemed to love it so I just highly encourage you guys to give it a try, if only to experience a great driver's car. I wouldn't worry too much about lap times; it's not really built for that, to its credit. It's built to drive. It's just a really great car and gives me hope that BMW's "still got it".
But to finalize my point on the M2... it's something I think that has to be experienced. Full disclosure, I got to spend plenty of time in the M2 putting it around the track in a variety of situations at the BMW Performance Center, so I've seen the best it has to offer. I've never driven a car quite like it; it seemed to blend old-school and new-school in a really great way. I agree it's not the best looking machine on the road, but it took everything I liked about my M4 (comfort, refinement, confidence-inspiring driving dynamics) and E36 (smaller dimensions, "tossability" to use a cliche term that's still accurate, and even steering feel and noise to an extent). I honestly started considering trading in my M4 almost instantly. Even Jeremy Clarkson seemed to love it so I just highly encourage you guys to give it a try, if only to experience a great driver's car. I wouldn't worry too much about lap times; it's not really built for that, to its credit. It's built to drive. It's just a really great car and gives me hope that BMW's "still got it".
06-13-2018, 11:49 AM
#39
Drifting
09-18-2018, 01:49 AM
#40
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Latest Z4 News
A couple of interesting Z4 articles passed on to me by a buddy:
Toyota wanted to make the Z4 mid-engine and BMW was actually on-board with the concept, but then the Big Man nixed the idea:
And all indications are that an M version of the Z4 is unlikely, as is a manual transmission:
Toyota wanted to make the Z4 mid-engine and BMW was actually on-board with the concept, but then the Big Man nixed the idea:
Guess Who Prevented The New Toyota Supra From Being A Mid-Engined Porsche 718 Fighter
https://carbuzz.com/news/guess-who-p...he-718-fighterAnd all indications are that an M version of the Z4 is unlikely, as is a manual transmission:
09-18-2018, 01:26 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
BMW quality is going down the drain fast. Turbocharger failures ($10 wastegate bushing turns into a $7,000 bill), fuel pumps, oil consumption... all equals dump the car at 49,999 miles to me. I've had E39 528i and 530i, as well as a 745Li, a 550i and a 335i and they all had problems of some sort, large and small. Electrical gremlins always. Come down in the morning to find all windows in the down position. Every six months. Unable to duplicate. Never seen that before. Yada yada yada. Dealers are terrible. BMW customer assistance is worse. Just my opinion.
09-18-2018, 02:37 PM
#43
My issue with BMW and many of the car manufacturers these days is the obsession with performance and lack of focus on the actual driving experience. A prime example of what I’m talking about is the Nissan GTR, the cars performance was way ahead of its time and everyone was in awe with the numbers but many complained that the actual driving experience wasn’t nearly as good as what came from other brands. We have now come full circle with the other brands applying similar technology to achieve the same or better performance at the expense of the actual driving experience.
If you’re tracking your cars and or primarily interested in bragging rights then I guess the direction that new cars are going is exactly what you would want. If your primary use is the less traveled roads and connecting with the car then new cars leave a lot to be desired IMHO. Mini is another great example, each new model release gets them further away from that much desired original driver focused car.
If you’re tracking your cars and or primarily interested in bragging rights then I guess the direction that new cars are going is exactly what you would want. If your primary use is the less traveled roads and connecting with the car then new cars leave a lot to be desired IMHO. Mini is another great example, each new model release gets them further away from that much desired original driver focused car.
09-19-2018, 09:50 AM
#44
Rennlist Member
I have owned several BMW including several M cars
The M2 is a nice car but over hyped . I sold mine after 8 months.
having said that , I do believe that BMW , after a decade or so of going down hill, is turning the corner , and the M2 was a good starting point
The M3 is still the best in the segment though C63 AMG is much closer now as compared to previous gens
The new M5 is also very promising , just drove one and it was very impressive . To me felt better than the Panamera Turbo
overall, I do believe big corporations, always have ups and downs , and I am hoping that BMW will have a good swing upward
The M2 is a nice car but over hyped . I sold mine after 8 months.
having said that , I do believe that BMW , after a decade or so of going down hill, is turning the corner , and the M2 was a good starting point
The M3 is still the best in the segment though C63 AMG is much closer now as compared to previous gens
The new M5 is also very promising , just drove one and it was very impressive . To me felt better than the Panamera Turbo
overall, I do believe big corporations, always have ups and downs , and I am hoping that BMW will have a good swing upward
09-19-2018, 11:00 AM
#45
Porsche owners sure are salty about BMWs. Odd. Really the first time I've run into Porsche owners being that way.
The M2, M2 Competition, M3 Competition package, and M5 are all excellent cars. Motor Trend sure had a lot of good things to say about the M5 in their Best Driver's Car testing. Of the summaries they've released thus far it's probably the most positive. The GT2 RS and Vantage were reviewed pretty highly as well.
I'm cross-shopping the 991.1 against the M2, M2 Competition, and M3 Competition package at this very moment. Will be to replace my current BMW daily driver. I have zero complaints about my current BMW. I custom ordered it four years ago. In that time it has been flawless. Unlike my Porsche, there isn't a squeak or a rattle to be found. The iDrive interface is superb, and the voice controls are amazingly intuitive. The interior has worn like iron. Despite hauling hundreds of rescue dogs all over the state there is nary a hint of wear to be found. The paint is incredible as well. Must be hard as a rock (or whatever you say about good paint). Never once had to touch it with a cutting or polishing compound. Just clay it once a year and keep up with a paint sealant and spray wax after washes. I wish the paint on my Porsche was anywhere near as good. It's a nightmare to deal with.
That being said, despite my 4 Series Gran Coupe being rock solid, it definitely doesn't stir the soul on a weekend drive. It's exceptionally competent and the N20 motor and ZF8 transmission work together flawlessly. The steering is unbelievably numb. It's a perfect daily though, and the hatch nature of the GC fits exactly what I need. It's really stupid to even consider getting rid of it. But when your other cars are a Miata and a 981 Boxster GTS... well... it's kinda hard not to want something a little more lively even for the drive to work.
Put me in the camp that thinks BMW is working back towards driving machines across the lineup. The next gen 3 Series (G20) will debut shortly. What little I've come across thus far regarding prototype drives has been very positive. They'll never be Porsches, but there is definitely a place for a BMW in pretty much anyone's garage.
The M2, M2 Competition, M3 Competition package, and M5 are all excellent cars. Motor Trend sure had a lot of good things to say about the M5 in their Best Driver's Car testing. Of the summaries they've released thus far it's probably the most positive. The GT2 RS and Vantage were reviewed pretty highly as well.
I'm cross-shopping the 991.1 against the M2, M2 Competition, and M3 Competition package at this very moment. Will be to replace my current BMW daily driver. I have zero complaints about my current BMW. I custom ordered it four years ago. In that time it has been flawless. Unlike my Porsche, there isn't a squeak or a rattle to be found. The iDrive interface is superb, and the voice controls are amazingly intuitive. The interior has worn like iron. Despite hauling hundreds of rescue dogs all over the state there is nary a hint of wear to be found. The paint is incredible as well. Must be hard as a rock (or whatever you say about good paint). Never once had to touch it with a cutting or polishing compound. Just clay it once a year and keep up with a paint sealant and spray wax after washes. I wish the paint on my Porsche was anywhere near as good. It's a nightmare to deal with.
That being said, despite my 4 Series Gran Coupe being rock solid, it definitely doesn't stir the soul on a weekend drive. It's exceptionally competent and the N20 motor and ZF8 transmission work together flawlessly. The steering is unbelievably numb. It's a perfect daily though, and the hatch nature of the GC fits exactly what I need. It's really stupid to even consider getting rid of it. But when your other cars are a Miata and a 981 Boxster GTS... well... it's kinda hard not to want something a little more lively even for the drive to work.
Put me in the camp that thinks BMW is working back towards driving machines across the lineup. The next gen 3 Series (G20) will debut shortly. What little I've come across thus far regarding prototype drives has been very positive. They'll never be Porsches, but there is definitely a place for a BMW in pretty much anyone's garage.