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Is the Cayman R worth the premium over the 987.2 Cayman S it's based on? I like the idea of starting with a 987.2 S and adding suspension, exhaust, and mild power tweaks as I go but wonder if one would just be better off buying an R and leaving it alone.
By the time you add everything on an S to reach an R you’re overall cost will be close, especially if you add the LWB’s. But the car would be built to your specifications and it’s fun to tinker with cars. The downside is that you’ll never recover any of the money spent on the upgrades and the S will depreciate more than the R. Porsche also really did an amazing job dialing these cars in and unless your tracking regularly you likely won’t be changing anything on the R.
By the time you add everything on an S to reach an R you’re overall cost will be close, especially if you add the LWB’s. But the car would be built to your specifications and it’s fun to tinker with cars. The downside is that you’ll never recover any of the money spent on the upgrades and the S will depreciate more than the R. Porsche also really did an amazing job dialing these cars in and unless your tracking regularly you likely won’t be changing anything on the R.
You're pretty much right, though you really can't replace the stuff that saves weight, aluminum doors, special door panels, a bit less sound deadening etc without really going deep into the budget. But you can buy the shocks/springs and roll bars for under $3K and they pretty much account for 90% of the driving difference between an S and an R. The HP difference is negligible.
The difference in price between a 987.2 S and an R seems to be around $20K if the R has buckets, a little less if it doesn't. I'm pretty confident that the market will continue to treat them as separate models and so long as you don't chop up the R it will stay or rise in price relative to an S. I have no doubt that down the line an S with the R's bits and pieces will fetch the same price or less than an unmodified S.
By the time you add everything on an S to reach an R you’re overall cost will be close, especially if you add the LWB’s. But the car would be built to your specifications and it’s fun to tinker with cars. The downside is that you’ll never recover any of the money spent on the upgrades and the S will depreciate more than the R. Porsche also really did an amazing job dialing these cars in and unless your tracking regularly you likely won’t be changing anything on the R.
Yeah the idea was stock Cayman R vs late model S with fancy suspension like Ohlins, full exhaust, lightweight 18 inch wheels with sticky tires, ECU tune, IPD plenum plus GT3 throttle body (do these actually work?), etc. Would likely come out to around a similar price as you say if we figure a nice S at 45k or so and a nice R at say 60k.
I'm in Pound Ridge, NY and have a R I've prepped for sale. Haven't made up my mind conclusively, but I'm thinking about it. I'm also a member of the Lime Rock Driver's Club so I could arrange a test drive. As you can see mine is a manual. Being an old school old fart, I can't imagine not having a manual in such a fantastic mid-engined car. I think most anyone who drives an R feels as if the car is "easy" to handle and does whatever you want perfectly. Obviously I'm biased, but I think the R represents the peak of Porsche design in terms of simplicity, drivability, and engine combo.
I'm in Pound Ridge, NY and have a R I've prepped for sale. Haven't made up my mind conclusively, but I'm thinking about it. I'm also a member of the Lime Rock Driver's Club so I could arrange a test drive. As you can see mine is a manual. Being an old school old fart, I can't imagine not having a manual in such a fantastic mid-engined car. I think most anyone who drives an R feels as if the car is "easy" to handle and does whatever you want perfectly. Obviously I'm biased, but I think the R represents the peak of Porsche design in terms of simplicity, drivability, and engine combo.
Yes I am. Unfortunately I am just not a fan of Peridot Green, sorry! Sweet car otherwise.
I actually returned to this thread mainly to update it as I have now been able to get seat time in both a 718 Base (manual) and a 981 GTS (PDK).
My thoughts, please chime in if you can.
718:
--As a daily I think this engine would be preferable. Sound was ok but I'm used to turbo'd engines so it doesn't bother me. Pretty fast which surprised me but little joy in revving it out.
--Chassis was great. This was a base car which was very interesting because despite the 20" wheels which were specced it rode beautifully. It just flowed through switchbacks and was nonplussed by the various bumps and potholes that litter our Northeast roads. Really, really, nice.
--Interior/exterior was beautful. This one was graphite blue over sport-tex, which for me was such a cool and interesting combo.
--As a daily this would be an awesome ride BUT after I got back into my M3 I completely forgot about it. The 718 just wasn't for me. I am sure a 718S would be better, a GTS even more so, but I am not willing to spend that kind of money on a car peering down upon its depreciation curve. Hot take: I had more fun in the 981 base that I drove a few years ago even though it was rental car slow.
981 GTS:
-Wow. This one really pulled on my heartstrings with the noise it made. I know this topic has been beaten to death but it really didn't matter how fast I was going, it was just fun to interact with the engine and have it make cool noises. Yes, I am a child but these are not entirely rational purchases and the whole point is to have fun.
-I am a manual transmission die-hard but, uh, I really liked the PDK. I'm not sure if I could make the switch but it really seemed to suit the car and made it feel like I could take full advantage of the engine. Its been a while since I had driven a dual-clutch and this was the first time that I have ever thought about it as an option. Again, the noise, it had a motorsporty quality to it that I really enjoyed. Maybe I need to see a doctor.
-Of course it looked great and the interior was fantastic. I don't really care for alcantara but it doesn't bother me enough to actively avoid it. My only concern was the alcantara on the wheel and PDK knobby thing. I have tried alcantara on shift ***** and it looked disgusting after one week so I would switch those items out.
-I couldn't really exercise the chassis but it felt firm, direct, and balanced on the street. This one had X73 so I was expecting very firm but after my M3 it didn't feel overly so and perfectly in line with what I expect out of a sports car.
I am still very intrigued by the Box Spyder and R but the GTS just felt so right to me. I love going to the track but I still want a car that is fun to have on the street and the GTS seems like it would fulfill both roles with aplomb. Everything, ultimately, is a compromise and the GTS has the right set of compromises I think.
So that is where I am now. I am also hopefully going to drive a Camaro ZL1 1LE soon as well as a GT350. Completely out of left field but they are special machines and I am keeping an open mind right now. I got to see a 1LE inj person and was blown away, I am curious how stiff it is as well as how "big" it feels. I realize that this is a net increase of +1 on the possible cars list. Maybe my doctor can help with that also.
Is the Cayman R worth the premium over the 987.2 Cayman S it's based on? I like the idea of starting with a 987.2 S and adding suspension, exhaust, and mild power tweaks as I go but wonder if one would just be better off buying an R and leaving it alone.
I think you basically have three dynamics going on here...
Engine - the S can be tuned up to match the R - so that problem goes away with $1K. In fact, the R should be tuned up as well... so no difference really. If you are going to mess with the exhaust at all, you can easily upgrade the S, if it does not have PSE.
Suspension/brakes/etc. Clearly a difference here, although I think there is a debate just how much of one there is. The R pads can easily be used in the S, and the same rotors can be purchased, so brake advantage goes away. Add some cheap GT3 air ducts as well, neither comes with stainless steel lines... Suspension is clearly different, although there is a kit to upgrade the S to R, I've ready $1300
Resale - The R definitely commands resale - if you are concerned about that or want a borderline collectable car - a modified S doesn't fit that bill...
I have a Spyder and am looking to put together a dedicated track car - will definitely start with an S, not an R.
I've owned a 2006 Cayman S for four years (bought it new), and Cayman R (had it less than a year), and now a 981 Boxster S. I've also had a 997.2 C4 for three years in between the R and the 981. I loved the 987 CS. It was my daily driver, and a delight. When I bought the R, I thought it would be even better. And it was in terms of performance. It was better balanced at the track, and it felt intuitive to drive. However, it was just enough more firm and hard core that it didn't work for me as a daily driver. It was just too harsh. Maybe today, with PS4s on it, it would be better. But even though it was a great car, it wasn't for me. The C4 was great. I really liked the AWD, and the extra space behind the seats was welcome. But I missed the mid-engine handling. I enjoyed it on the track, but on winding roads, I had to push it too hard to be really fun. By the way, all the cars were 6 speeds. I tend to do 4-5 track days a year and put about 7-8K miles on the car a year.
Now I have the 981 Boxster S (PASM). It's true that the steering isn't as "one" with the car. But it's very precise. And compared to newer BMWs (I also have a 2017 330i Sports Wagon with M Sport and Track Handling Package), the steering on the 981 is way, way better. It's weighted well and very precise. It's really good, although not as good as hydraulic steering. Otherwise, the 981 is a better car than the 987, in my opinion. It's more comfortable, it handles as well or better, the ride is better, the convertible top technology is great, and I have to say that I really, really enjoy top-down motoring. And with the top up, it's still very good to drive. The only downside is the really bad visibility in the rear quarter.
I've test driven the 718 Cayman S. It handles great. It's faster than the previous generations. It's comfortable. But I just can't get behind the engine. If it was all you were used to, it would be fine. But coming from the 987, the C4, and now the 981, I just couldn't go there.
The major advantage of the Cayman R, in my opinion, is resale value. I could get as much or more for one right now than I got when I sold my R four years ago. The other cars will continue to depreciate.
Other than that, however, I'd go for the 981 GTS. Really a great car. Excellent for the track. A great driver on winding roads. And a car you can easily live with day-to-day.
I've owned a 2006 Cayman S for four years (bought it new), and Cayman R (had it less than a year), and now a 981 Boxster S. I've also had a 997.2 C4 for three years in between the R and the 981. I loved the 987 CS. It was my daily driver, and a delight. When I bought the R, I thought it would be even better. And it was in terms of performance. It was better balanced at the track, and it felt intuitive to drive. However, it was just enough more firm and hard core that it didn't work for me as a daily driver. It was just too harsh. Maybe today, with PS4s on it, it would be better. But even though it was a great car, it wasn't for me. The C4 was great. I really liked the AWD, and the extra space behind the seats was welcome. But I missed the mid-engine handling. I enjoyed it on the track, but on winding roads, I had to push it too hard to be really fun. By the way, all the cars were 6 speeds. I tend to do 4-5 track days a year and put about 7-8K miles on the car a year.
Now I have the 981 Boxster S (PASM). It's true that the steering isn't as "one" with the car. But it's very precise. And compared to newer BMWs (I also have a 2017 330i Sports Wagon with M Sport and Track Handling Package), the steering on the 981 is way, way better. It's weighted well and very precise. It's really good, although not as good as hydraulic steering. Otherwise, the 981 is a better car than the 987, in my opinion. It's more comfortable, it handles as well or better, the ride is better, the convertible top technology is great, and I have to say that I really, really enjoy top-down motoring. And with the top up, it's still very good to drive. The only downside is the really bad visibility in the rear quarter.
I've test driven the 718 Cayman S. It handles great. It's faster than the previous generations. It's comfortable. But I just can't get behind the engine. If it was all you were used to, it would be fine. But coming from the 987, the C4, and now the 981, I just couldn't go there.
The major advantage of the Cayman R, in my opinion, is resale value. I could get as much or more for one right now than I got when I sold my R four years ago. The other cars will continue to depreciate.
Other than that, however, I'd go for the 981 GTS. Really a great car. Excellent for the track. A great driver on winding roads. And a car you can easily live with day-to-day.
Thanks for your thoughts. I have struggled to describe it but the 718, with the turbo engine, I end up comparing to other modern turbo cars like my M3 (which it will never match in straight line drama). I'm not expecting a Cayman to be blisteringly quick, I am looking for that all-important "feel." The 987/981 with the flat six kinda stands apart from other cars in a timeless way. Its like a nice swiss mechanical chronograph vs an Apple Watch. I can intellectually appreciate the obvious advantages but its just a tool to be discarded once used up or outdated.
I think your use case is similar to mine. With regards to steering, I honestly have gotten so used to electric steering that it was a non-factor when I drove the 981 GTS. I'm on my second car with it so I really don't think about it much unless it is horrific. The M3 is super accurate but a bit devoid of feel. The 981 is about as good as I've felt. I suppose I have stopped expecting the really analog hydraulic steering feel and I don't really make that comparison if that makes sense. Looking back on the test drive, I really liked the weighting of it. In my opinion that where a lot of the electric racks get it wrong, even with the ability to adjust it like in the M3 its always too heavy or too light.
Had a 6spd F80 M3 ZCP for two months and sold it because it was boring to drive (for me). Insane performance, but was like playing a video game... I didn't feel like I was part of the car.
Currently have a 981 CGTS, previously have had a 987.1 CS and 981 CS, all manual. I would choose any of those Caymans over the BMW, but my favorite is definitely my GTS. Compared to the 987, it looks better (subjective), sounds better (subjective), better interior, better technology, lighter, not quite as twitchy, yet still very tossable, and WAY more fun to drive than the 997 C4S I had.
04-15-2018, 10:54 AM
